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Old 2014-11-28, 04:15 PM   #21
inflatable dalek
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Hahaha.Warcry has posted in this thread! Time for the monthly argument with Captain Grumpy over his finding of flaws in the issue. The absolute highlight of my lonely and miserable life. He he.

I really need to get a handle on the whole inner monologue thing.

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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
What an issue! A great view of what Cybertron might have become without Megatron and Optimus to tear the system down.


Waaaaaaaaaaaait.... what? Has Roberts actually managed to change actual reality? What's going on?!?!!?!!!?!!!?????? :0

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Hard to say!
Sure it is. And Trailbreaker's death was ambiguous.

What I did like, was that the need to use Quantum engines actually gives a reason for him coming on the Lost Light in the first place, it's already been established as being in some way a special ship so presumably he wanted to study the technology to perfect his technique.

Thinking about it actually, the theory of time travel here is clearly based on Roberts thinking very hard about how it worked in the UK stories and trying to deal with various oddities (moving through space as well as time, the future just sort of carrying on with none of the changes in the past affecting it) to be found there.

Mind, whilst I can see why Roberts would have Perceptor firmly debunk the idea time travel is going to work like it did in the rebooted Star Trek film (because if every time you time travel you do go into a parallel timeline and the original carries on regardless there wouldn't be much of a sense of jeopardy nor a lot of motivation to go after him as a universe where those things happened would exist anyway), it is odd that we're told parallel Universes don't exist whilst at the same time cutting to an alternate version of the present that is... well parallel.

Come to that, isn't the whole idea of Quantum physics based upon the "Infinite number of possible outcomes all happening" idea?


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Or Brainstorm isn't a Decepticon at all and his crudely-scrawled badge is only an attempt to fit in during the pre-war days so he can get close enough to Megatron to kill him and prevent the war in the first place, which (he thinks) will make the future a better place?
I suppose the big clue about what he's after is last issue he materialised where Megatron was in the past rather than where Pax was.

He's so a Decepticon.


On the whole "Is this actually what Brainstorm wanted?" thing, considering he was established as "Knock Off" back in Remain in Light I'd say things firmly got out of his control.

On a similar note, Roberts confirmed a while ago the Spark Eater ignored Brainstorm because he was dead, the holding up of the briefcase was just a bluff (interestingly he's also said that whilst Brainstorm was always going to be dead, it would have been for different reasons and had a different outcome if Dark Cybertron hadn't come along and made it a sensible place to deal with the idea).


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Yeah...I got the feeling that he'd at least consider erasing all of Rewind's memories of his time on the other Lost Light (conveniently getting rid of the "You're not my Chromedome!" complaint) or possibly even rewriting those memories with constructs based on what his Rewind lived through. I don't know if he'd actually do it, but it has to be tempting.
It's alright, his good buddy Brainstorm will likely disuade him of doing anything so drastic like last time.


Oh.
 
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Old 2014-11-28, 08:40 PM   #22
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RE: Sparkeater: Riiiiiiight, Dark Cybertron. Didn't follow that one too closely. Aside from MTMTE #27 and a few other key moments, I honestly don't remember much about it.

Shame that such important plot elements were wasted on an 'event' that most people weren't too excited about.

---

Double-post

[/MERGE]

Another thought:

Now that we know that Brainstorm's briefcase can be used for time travel, I'm even more intrigued by the mysteries surrounding the second briefcase, why/how it was separated from ALL Brainstorm, and why ALL Rewind (along with the duplicate briefcase) didn't disappear with the rest of his Lost Light.

No clue what the connection is with those things and what's happening now in the 'original' timeline, but I have a nagging suspicion that there is. It's something to do with Rewind maybe...? Does seem a bit curious that his memories are mixing with the alternate timeline's, but Minimus/Magnus's have not yet.

Hmmm. Kind of suggests that there was time jumping taking place on the alternate Lost Light too.

Definately more going on with ALL Rewind than he's letting on.
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 05:13 PM   #23
inflatable dalek
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Also, did we witness the death of yet another Rewind at the end of this issue? All these different versions getting killed off won't be good for the ALL one's psyche.

Hmm, we need a new acronym to differentiate the various alternate bods we'll be meeting in the new present.

I shall call it BR (as in Brainstorm's Reality). So BR Rewind, BR Ambus and so on and so forth.

This time next week you'll all be doing it.

So we have OLL Rewind, ALL Rewind and BR Rewind. Simples.

Also, I've found Ultra Magnus' favourite song:


 
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Old 2014-11-29, 05:15 PM   #24
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I'm still not convinced Brainstorm is actually using the green spark for himself/his time travel scheme. At least not until we see the thing actually in his chest/hooked up to the machine. I'm still inclined to think he's going to (or at least try to) build a 'Phase sixer'.

For the why to the time travel, I'm of split opinion on the reason he went back. I'm certain Brainy isn't really a Decepticon and that the faceplate was a red herring planted by the the ALL's real mole. So I'm down to two real options:
1. He went back to hunt down some Ununtrium and other materials needed for making a Phase Sixer, and did some random thing that messed with the timeline in the process. Or
2. He's actually a functionist hard liner and his whole intent in travelling back was to do things that would ensure the Functionist Council rose to power without the Senate interfering with them. (Could swear there was a solicitation talking about the Functionists wanting revenge on Pax for something, even if it took millions of years to get it)

I'm not sure what's up with Rewind picking up memories from his altered present counterpart, aside from the possibility he's somehow being connected to the quantum engines, and thus the briefcase time machine, from when the ALL's engines were shut off (I'd say Megatron wasn't because they weren't his engines, or because he wasn't a result of a quantum duplicating. That or he doesn't get the memory mix because he's dead in the altered present).
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 06:21 PM   #25
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Were the Functionists overthrown by the Senate in the past, or were the Senate members puppets of the Functionists? I've forgotten at what point the Functionists fell into myth (presuming they're not around in the present day OLL, as it were).

I've a feeling Rewind isn't going to be around for too long. In a Pipes' way he's destined to get shafted no matter what destiny he's in. And I'm SO GLAD he and Chromedome didn't get back together like nothing much had happened.

I thought this issue was spectacular. Its got all the good feeling and interweaving of Shadowplay & more. I love the Judge Dredd coloured (and detailed) Functionist enforcers, the clever slogans everywhere which state their intentions so plainly...

And I got the subscription cover with Three of Twelve on the front. If that isn't one of the most sinister covers I've ever seen on a Transformers title i'll eat some twist n' share garlic bread.
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 07:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Auntie Slag View Post
Were the Functionists overthrown by the Senate in the past, or were the Senate members puppets of the Functionists? I've forgotten at what point the Functionists fell into myth (presuming they're not around in the present day OLL, as it were).
Pretty sure the Functionists were overthrown along with the Senate, as they were still active during Shadowplay (as evidenced by Nightbeat and Quark's[I think that was the microscope dude}, and Prowl and "Chromedome"'s conversations). The war kicking off kind of threw the Functionist ideals out the window, what with people like Megatron being repurposed from miners to war machines, and other alt mode swaps. They may have even been taken out by the Decepticons early in the war in a similar way to the Senate.

I would think the Functionists and the Senate acted like say a Government and a Church did back in the Middle Ages or so. So both were powerful institutions, with the Senate running the day to day stuff while the Functionists had outsized influenced and enforced their will on how society worked.

Presumably there'd be some fanatics floating around still who are Pro-Functionist. Brainy may well be one of them. But if so, he hides it pretty damn well.
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 08:15 PM   #27
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That's a good point, Unicron. The Functionists have 'Catholicism' written all over them. That's probably a good way to interpret their relationship to the Senate (remember that Cybertron is divided, politically, into city-states, each with their own representative in the Senate).

Re: Rewind's memories - it's not his memories being replaced but the information in his database. This probably ties in to the ideas Nightbeat had about data ghosts and whatnot when the Lost Light was disappearing.

I'd buy Brainstorm as a Functionist agent rather than a Decepticon. Chromedome called him out on his insincerity on the 'equal rights for knock-offs' line. We also don't know what his reaction to Tyrest's thingy meant. If he was forged he could have been faking the pain or his jury rigged dead spark might have had an averse reaction to the signal. If he was constructed cold then he might be stuck with a fatal case of self-loathing. Doesn't seem like Stormy's style but it could work...

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Unicron:1. He went back to hunt down some Ununtrium and other materials needed for making a Phase Sixer, and did some random thing that messed with the timeline in the process.
That's not a bad connection. He would have known where Ununtrium was to be found as there's not much of it around. It does seem to be native to Cybertron and its moons though, doubtful if it would show up on Messantine, which seems to be very far away.

Zigzagger: There's something nagging me about all the warp gates and such surrounding the ALL. I'd suspect a botched time jump or two happening there.
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 08:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Hahaha.Warcry has posted in this thread! Time for the monthly argument with Captain Grumpy over his finding of flaws in the issue. The absolute highlight of my lonely and miserable life. He he.


Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Mind, whilst I can see why Roberts would have Perceptor firmly debunk the idea time travel is going to work like it did in the rebooted Star Trek film (because if every time you time travel you do go into a parallel timeline and the original carries on regardless there wouldn't be much of a sense of jeopardy nor a lot of motivation to go after him as a universe where those things happened would exist anyway), it is odd that we're told parallel Universes don't exist whilst at the same time cutting to an alternate version of the present that is... well parallel.
It's not really, though. The version of Cybertron that we're seeing is the real one now. The Lost Light hasn't phased out of existence yet because Brainstorm's briefcase-machine is protecting it, but everything else from the universe we know is gone and has been replaced with the new one.

Not that there aren't other flaws with the idea, such as...

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Come to that, isn't the whole idea of Quantum physics based upon the "Infinite number of possible outcomes all happening" idea?
This I agree with you on. I'm not a quantum physicist by any means but I think your take on things is, if nothing else, a decent approximation of the idea.

Also the pat "no other universes" rule is completely blown out of the water by the existence of the Dead Universe, if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
I suppose the big clue about what he's after is last issue he materialised where Megatron was in the past rather than where Pax was.
Yep, that's what I was thinking too.

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Originally Posted by Terome View Post
That's a good point, Unicron. The Functionists have 'Catholicism' written all over them. That's probably a good way to interpret their relationship to the Senate (remember that Cybertron is divided, politically, into city-states, each with their own representative in the Senate).
That's the only way I could make sense of it myself, though I thought of a modern example first in Iran -- the Functionist Council fill the Ayatollah's role while the Senate are the secular government.

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That's not a bad connection. He would have known where Ununtrium was to be found as there's not much of it around. It does seem to be native to Cybertron and its moons though, doubtful if it would show up on Messantine, which seems to be very far away.
The problem with that (and the whole idea of ununtrium being rare and special, TBH) is that ununtrium is a real element that even us mere humans can synthesize in a lab. Naturally-occurring samples are going to be rare but I don't understand why Brainstorm would need to time-travel to get it. Just set up a particle accelerator and get to work making your own!

Of course in real life it's got a half-life of twenty seconds, is scorchingly radioactive and doesn't make you invincible, so it's probably best to just pretend that it's a magical fantasy compound and leave it at that. Especially since Roberts only used it because it has the atomic number 113 and he can't help himself from making 113 in-jokes...
 
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Old 2014-11-29, 10:30 PM   #29
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Wow. I <3 Roberts.
 

Wreck and Rule!
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Old 2014-11-30, 01:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
Laugh it up.When everyone is going ALL, OLL and BR who'll be laughing then?

In terms of influences on Roberts, I think something that hasn't been mentioned that he would have been exposed to at the end of his teens after first reading Target: 2006 at the start of them is the one big time travel show everyone of that age in the UK would have been seen: The Girl From Tomorrow.

Or more importantly in this case, The Return of the Girl From Tomorrow where the villain tries to use the time travel device to change the past to his benefit, and winds up creating an absolute crapfest of a "Present" (in this case, the year 3000) as a result.

Both series of The Girl From Tomorrow are comfortably the best thing to ever come out of Australia, and I say that comfortably despite not having seen the show in over twenty years.


Quote:
Also the pat "no other universes" rule is completely blown out of the water by the existence of the Dead Universe, if nothing else.
Ah, but the Dead Universe wasn't a Parallel Universe it was a SHUT THE **** UP AND DON'T ASK THAT SORT OF QUESTION universe.
 
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Old 2014-11-30, 11:26 AM   #31
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Rather late to the party, but I loved this issue.

A bit more..."quiet" than usual, and sadly it picks up neither from the end of 33 or 34, but it's satisfactory either way.

I wonder if we'll see the adventures of future minimus or if that was just a taste of the dystopian future and that's all.

Notice that there's no Prime in the dystopian future, so the line probably ended with Sentinel in that universe. Still unsure what Brainstorm is out to do exactly, as it all appears to be a red herring.

Finally some more Rodimus, that has been missing!

I was falsely under the impression that Elegant chaos was going to be a 4 parter, but it appears to be shadowplay-length. And from the looks of it, much more "interactive" than the previous 2 flashback stories.
 

Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.
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Old 2014-12-01, 08:19 PM   #32
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I'm still rather flabbergasted at the incredible quality of this issue. What makes it even better is the solicit on the back pages for the next issue; featuring Roller slurping a Kremzeek carton. I'm so happy to see the return of this character, as I feel like he could be one of my favourites in MTMTE.

It's probably from so many years of watching cop films where you grow to like both cops but know that one of them is bound to die. Already I feel as if Roller could be as influential a figure to the making of Optimus Prime as Megatron. The other thing is probably 80% of my love for Roller comes from Ratchet's line: "if for no other reason than it was the last time we were all together".

And what an issue the next one will be to round off Christmas 2014. It was around this time a few years ago that Shadowplay held me in the same thrall. Days of Deception feels like Roberts is in total masterclass mode, and I really hope Milne is on board to draw them all!
 

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Old 2014-12-02, 09:59 AM   #33
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And what an issue the next one will be to round off Christmas 2014. It was around this time a few years ago that Shadowplay held me in the same thrall. Days of Deception feels like Roberts is in total masterclass mode, and I really hope Milne is on board to draw them all!
Oh definitely. You could run lectures in serial storytelling just using slides from the recent issues.

I would also like to point out that the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics is (appropriately) only one of many, though it is the one that tends to feature the most in science fiction.

The whole idea that quantum physics is based around is the photoelectric effect, which is about why some things are more shiny than others.
 

Last edited by Terome; 2014-12-02 at 10:02 AM. Reason: addendum
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Old 2014-12-02, 11:29 AM   #34
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I for one wont be too hard on the scientific basis for a plot set within a universe populated with living, transforming robots.
 
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Old 2014-12-02, 01:44 PM   #35
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That was phenomenal. I'm now really angry I'm gonna have to wait so long for answers.

One thing; I don't think Percy said parallel universes don't exist or can't exist, just that they're not a result of time travel. Which is why Brainstorm's device had to temporarily maintain the OLL.
 

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Old 2014-12-02, 04:41 PM   #36
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I for one wont be too hard on the scientific basis for a plot set within a universe populated with living, transforming robots.


It was Dalek I was waggling my finger at, MTMTE can be as wacky as it likes.
 
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Old 2014-12-02, 04:48 PM   #37
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It was Dalek I was waggling my finger at, MTMTE can be as wacky as it likes.
Yeah, well just so we're clear *makes "I'm watching you buddy!" Motion *
 
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Old 2014-12-02, 05:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Auntie Slag View Post
The other thing is probably 80% of my love for Roller comes from Ratchet's line: "if for no other reason than it was the last time we were all together".
This reminds me of something I was thinking at one point: What if the reason Shadowplay was the last time the three of them were together was because Roller gets involved with the LL-crew's time jump and ends up coming back to the present with them.
It would explain why he disappeared, removes the whole "Tarn is Roller" thing, and adds another member to the crew. Could be interesting. Or a horrible mistake.
 
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Old 2014-12-02, 05:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Red Dave Prime View Post
Yeah, well just so we're clear *makes "I'm watching you buddy!" Motion *
*loads gun before leaving the car*

Quote:
Unicron: This reminds me of something I was thinking at one point: What if the reason Shadowplay was the last time the three of them were together was because Roller gets involved with the LL-crew's time jump and ends up coming back to the present with them.
It would explain why he disappeared, removes the whole "Tarn is Roller" thing, and adds another member to the crew. Could be interesting. Or a horrible mistake.
Ooh, I like that idea.
 
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Old 2014-12-02, 06:49 PM   #40
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I love you Unicron, and I want to have your babies.
 
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