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Old 2015-08-26, 07:28 AM   #1
Cliffjumper
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Red face Saw this weird KO in the Entertainer the other day

It looked like Springer but it had all this orange on it and someone had tried to pass it off as Sandstorm.

Seriously, Generations is hilarious.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 10:23 AM   #2
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Yeah, a lot of people seem to love Sandstorm so maybe he comes over better in the flesh, but I've never gotten the appeal myself and that's speaking as someone who thinks Springer is awesome. They just keep reworking him into characters that the toy almost, but not quite, doesn't really resemble (which might not be a problem if the original wasn't so Springer).
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 02:33 PM   #3
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One of my favourite things about trying to work if I've missed anything important in the last few years (spoilers: not really) has been nearly choking to death on my own laughter at seeing all the "wack a different colour scheme on this and say it's X character" recolours.

I mean I know Has/Tak have been pulling this for over a decade now, but it's amazing how they still seem to find more shark to jump over.

Personal highlight was when I was watching a vid review of a 3P Fort Max (think it was Infinitor, but might have been Warden) and the guy went "now for the size comparison I'm going to wheel out Scorponok" and pulled out Energon Scorpy done out in the G1 colour scheme. ****ing comedy gold man.

I'm assuming it was done for a convention or something, but it's just the notion that people go "yep, that's my definitive representation of G1 Scorponok now" and roll with it.

It's like painting Whirl purple and saying "well, that's Universe Shockwave sorted."
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 03:26 PM   #4
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You know, I've never quite understood this turn the fandom's taken lately where the top criteria we judge a toy on is how Geewun it is. Sandstorm is an absolutely fantastic figure, equal to or better than Springer in every way that matters. No, he doesn't look much like G1 Sandstorm, but he's got better alt-modes, actually tabs together solidly in all of them, his plastic doesn't look like shampoo bottles and his fan-wings make for great aerial poses. But everyone shits on him because he doesn't look like some obscure creamsicle from the 80s. It's especially weird because the damned toy looks nothing like Springer either, being all tall and lanky with a spiky head instead of blocky and beefy.

I mean, if this was supposed to be Masterpiece Sandstorm then sure, it'd be a total failure. But it's a random mass-retail toy from a line where characters' resemblance to their old character models is vague at the best of times (I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone but Jazz and the Seekers that are all that close to their 80s look). It's not supposed to be an end-all, be-all embodiment of the character. Criticizing it for that is like criticizing AoE Lockdown for not looking more like the Animated guy.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 03:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
You know, I've never quite understood this turn the fandom's taken lately where the top criteria we judge a toy on is how Geewun it is.
I just like unique characters to have unique designs.

If the Springer toy works better as Sandstorm, then more power to everybody involved.

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It's especially weird because the damned toy looks nothing like Springer either, being all tall and lanky with a spiky head instead of blocky and beefy.
From memory it's a pretty solid iteration of the IDW version though isn't it? Am prepared to be massively wrong there.

My Scorponok point was more a commentary on people going "well this is the most recent iteration of the character, therefore it supercedes all other versions" despite it being ****ing horrific. Just because something's vaguely the right colour and has the right trademark on it doesn't necessarily* make it... well, anything other than a lazy attempt to cash-in on people who buy what they're told to.

* and doesn't necessarily not make it so. I'm sure there are many toys that have been better suited to the random redeco that followed. I'm just a little disgruntled that so many characters are just pawned off with a half-arsed redeco of somebody else, when once upon a time Has/Tak/Tom would have gone to the effort of giving them their own mould.

Random recolours have always been a thing. And I understand that you can't really whack a new name on it in the Generations line, but it just feels like even the pretense that they're not just cashing in has disappeared.

And to take it away from "how geewun things are" - Are we going to get a purple redeco of Generations Blackarachnia called "Tarantulas"?
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 05:41 PM   #6
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Yeh, to me it's not about slavishly following G1, it's this reduction of unique characters to being recolours of some other guy - Tubby Tracks, various Cliffjumpers, Hardhead, etc.

They need to rejig Springer so the RRP is only preposterous rather than absurd? Cool beans, same as it ever was. But if there's not anyone who looks much like Springer make someone up; styling a G1 influenced toy as another G1 character is only going to invite unflattering comparisons, no?

I mean, whatever you can say about G1 Sandstorm (though to my money he's probably the best of the original Triples) he's a different design.

Across fandom as a whole there's been a kneejerking against Hasbro 'bashing' that's swung too far the other way IMO; some sections (I stress not here anymore) are far too eager to apologise for the actions of a multinational because they cornered some of the design team at a convention or whatever.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 06:01 PM   #7
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Mind, I suppose with the toys showing up in the comics it's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy that they look like the characters. As odd as it is to think, a relatively minor character like Sandstorm has probably appeared more looking like the Generations toy in media (which includes, what, a couple of years of supporting appearances and a major Special Guest Star role in Punishment?) than he has as the original look (which of course has two alternates with and without the face). So which counts as his "Real" look now?

Beyond it not really feeling very like Sandstorm the general look of the toy is what doesn't do much for me, he seems top heavy and the alt modes don't seem to look as nice as Springer's. Again, enough people who aren't insane (and Warcry) seem to love him so there's a good chance pictures are selling him short in some way, but he really doesn't do much for me.

Weirdly, as it's even more ludicrous an idea, as a robot mode the version as Rodimus actually seems to work much better. It's just a shame about the alts.

Double Dealer out of Blitzwing is actually more hilarious as a random repaint into a character the original doesn't really resemble.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 06:29 PM   #8
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Sandstorm's one of the few mould re-uses I like and got -- no particular affection for the original and it's better differentiated than a ton of original era re-uses. Whereas multiples of the seekers don't appeal and it's only the novelty of a Blue Bluestreak that got me to buy two Datsun MPs.

Desperate colour scheme re-uses passed off as other characters are such a tradition by now it'll be a shame if they don't think of something to do with Sky Lynx. I'm rarely interested in them, but occasionally a new sculpt for a part can make a design sing unexpectedly.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 07:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Double Dealer out of Blitzwing is actually more hilarious as a random repaint into a character the original doesn't really resemble.
That's a superb one. "Er, Double Dealer was in a comic recently... I know we never thought we'd dig that name out of storage, but what the hell... quick, find a toy that we can slap his name on... I don't know, one of the ones with three modes."
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 08:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
That's a superb one. "Er, Double Dealer was in a comic recently... I know we never thought we'd dig that name out of storage, but what the hell... quick, find a toy that we can slap his name on... I don't know, one of the ones with three modes."
The fact it's you posting reminds me that its amazing (unless there's some obscure Asian/con release I've missed) they haven't done that one as Flywheels. Even when they made Springer Battletrap!
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 08:06 PM   #11
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...I like Doubledealer.

Sandstorm is top heavy and can't stand straight without falling over backwards at some point, no matter how much you titivate those rear wheels. I like the colours, but the toy is just too bloody weird looking to work for me. All that was streamlined an elegant about Springer has been turned into just a lanky looking fella with a squished head and two tractor wheels slapped to his back. He looks more like a slightly wibbly custom than an actual Transformers product. In a strange way, this is what makes him appeal to me. He's a garish and slightly unsuccessful retool of an excellent mould. I would have preferred perhaps an all-new mould that could have perhaps doubled as Octane or Broadside though.

I'd prefer if Hasbro were a bit more thoughful about mould re-use, rather than the current CW ethos of just having one mould be five characters, something which was previously relegated to those amazing BotCon and TFCC 'exclusives'. I get that costs and blah, but a lot of this is now looking like money for old rope.*


*which is appropriate. As thats exactly what Generations is.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 09:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Even when they made Springer Battletrap!
Oh my word that's sublime.

I'm a big fan of how they've made his robot mode the right colour scheme at the expense of not giving a shit what effect it has on how the other modes look.
 
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Old 2015-08-26, 09:51 PM   #13
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From memory it's a pretty solid iteration of the IDW version though isn't it? Am prepared to be massively wrong there.
It gets a lot of details right, but the proportions are all off, I think. My memory tells me that IDW Springer was built like a brick shithouse, just like regular Springer, until the toy came out. It'd be like taking G1 Bumblebee and making him skinny.

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And to take it away from "how geewun things are" - Are we going to get a purple redeco of Generations Blackarachnia called "Tarantulas"?
That would actually be fantastic. They should totally do it.

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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Yeh, to me it's not about slavishly following G1, it's this reduction of unique characters to being recolours of some other guy - Tubby Tracks, various Cliffjumpers, Hardhead, etc.
Back in the day when we didn't know how long Hasbro's boner for G1 characters was going to last, I would have agreed with you. Nowadays, though? There's always going to be another Tracks, another Cliffjumper, and probably even another Hardhead eventually too. Even moreso now that third party stuff has joined the fray. If the current one sucks, I'll just ignore it and wait for the next. I mean, hell, there's been something like three or four official Spinisters in the last five years, let alone characters that people who aren't me actually like. Eventually they're bound to get it right.

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Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
Sandstorm is top heavy and can't stand straight without falling over backwards at some point, no matter how much you titivate those rear wheels.
This has literally never happened to mine. In fact the joints on my Sandstorm are way tighter than my Springer and he poses quite a bit better than the original. Hasbro QC is probably more to blame for the problems your Sandstorm has than the design itself (and the same with my wobbly Springer).

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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
I'm a big fan of how they've made his robot mode the right colour scheme at the expense of not giving a shit what effect it has on how the other modes look.
Directly copying the deco of a toy 1/8 its size in robot mode was a master stroke too! All of those wide expanses of grey and blue with nary a paint app to be found breaking them up...

I think you could actually get a decent Battletrap out of the mold, but this wasn't the way to do it.
 

Last edited by Warcry; 2015-08-26 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 2015-08-27, 12:58 AM   #14
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I prefer Sandstorm over Springer. A lot of that's due to the novelty of the alt modes. I've got plenty of other car and helicopter transformers. Not so many dune buggies and VTOL aircraft. On the downside, the transformation devolves a little into folding the limbs underneath the orange plank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
They need to rejig Springer so the RRP is only preposterous rather than absurd? Cool beans, same as it ever was. But if there's not anyone who looks much like Springer make someone up; styling a G1 influenced toy as another G1 character is only going to invite unflattering comparisons, no?

I mean, whatever you can say about G1 Sandstorm (though to my money he's probably the best of the original Triples) he's a different design.
Weren't most of the post movie G1 toys unique designs? For all the crap TF gets for relying on repaints, it seemed like they tried to get away from that after the movie. On the down side, a lot of those toys weren't that advanced. Kup, Sourge, and maybe Skullcruncher are the only ones I can think of that have the arm articulation of Prowl, Inferno, Hoist, Rumble, Sideswipe, or their repaints.

The price point might not be that flexible, depending on what retailers are willing to pay. The choice may not be: retool or expensive unique figure. It may be: retool or simplified unique figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
I'd prefer if Hasbro were a bit more thoughful about mould re-use, rather than the current CW ethos of just having one mould be five characters, something which was previously relegated to those amazing BotCon and TFCC 'exclusives'. I get that costs and blah, but a lot of this is now looking like money for old rope.
One CW car mold is actually used 8 times (G1 & G2 Dead-End, G1 & G2 Wildrider, Smokescreen, Prowl, Streetwise, and a Victorion limb) so far. I was looking forward to Gen Thurst since I liked the color scheme and never owned his G1 toy. But, as it was the 4th version of that Seeker mold I owned, I got bored with him almost immediately. I can justify 3 versions of a CW mold, to display as an arm, leg, and standalone figure, but that's pushing it.

I don't remember Animated or the previous toylines relying on repaints and retools to anywhere near this extent. I may not mind the Springer/Sandstorm reuse, but it seems to have been near the start of a bad path.
 

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Last edited by Tantrum; 2015-08-27 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 2015-08-27, 01:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
It gets a lot of details right, but the proportions are all off, I think. My memory tells me that IDW Springer was built like a brick shithouse, just like regular Springer, until the toy came out. It'd be like taking G1 Bumblebee and making him skinny.
Nah, it's definitely the Nick Roche Last Stand Springer. You could argue that they've based it on panels that give a somewhat skewed take on the character because we're seeing it from Ironfist's much lower down and full of hero worship perspective, but that is a damn good representation (of the robot mode anyway) of how he appeared in that comic.

I don't think Springer's actually been in the comics since the toy came out actually, so there's been no flow of inspiration the other way as of yet.
 
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Old 2015-08-27, 04:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
I prefer Sandstorm over Springer. A lot of that's due to the novelty of the alt modes. I've got plenty of other car and helicopter transformers. Not so many dune buggies and VTOL aircraft. On the downside, the transformation devolves a little into folding the limbs underneath the orange plank.
That would be my main gripe with the toy too. That tailfin platform never really wants to fold up comfortably in any mode, and it's the worst in robot mode.

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The price point might not be that flexible, depending on what retailers are willing to pay. The choice may not be: retool or expensive unique figure. It may be: retool or simplified unique figure.
I think you've probably got it right on this score. People (myself included) complain enough now that a Deluxe is around $20. Without retools to cut costs, we'd be paying closer to UK prices in Canada/the US. Retailers would pitch a fit, so they'd have to look into other cost-cutting measures to keep the MSRP close to where it is now.

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I don't remember Animated or the previous toylines relying on repaints and retools to anywhere near this extent.
If memory serves Animated was actually an outlier...I didn't pay very close attention but I think there were a bunch of molds in that line that didn't see repaints at all until the club got their hands on them (though admittedly, some were planned but cancelled). But throughout the Unicron Trilogy, movie lines and early Classics/Universe/etc. it seemed like the rule was one repaint/retool per mold and they'd only go above and beyond that for something like the Seekers. So what we're seeing in Combiner Wars is definitely beyond anything we've seen before. It really made the line fade into generic blah-ness for me after the first few waves.

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Nah, it's definitely the Nick Roche Last Stand Springer. You could argue that they've based it on panels that give a somewhat skewed take on the character because we're seeing it from Ironfist's much lower down and full of hero worship perspective, but that is a damn good representation (of the robot mode anyway) of how he appeared in that comic.
It's definitely based on Roche's Springer, but even taking perspective into account it's super stretched out. Now, if the LSOTW Springer had showed up in MTMTE I'm sure he'd have looked a lot more like the toy simply due to the generally "lean" style that book has used for its characters. But the toy definitely didn't fit in with the blockier, grittier style used in Wreckers. At least not for me, obviously your mileage may vary.

(Doesn't the book or one of the text stories even go out of their way to call out how stocky and powerfully-built Springer is in one of Ironfist's hero-worshipping fits? I seem to recall reading something like that. but it's been a while since I've gone through my TPB.)
 
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Old 2015-08-27, 05:58 PM   #17
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but it's been a while since I've gone through my TPB.)
HE DOESN'T READ LSOTW DAILY! BURN HIM! BURN HIM AND DISTRIBUTE HIS TOYS AMONG THE COLLECTIVE!
 
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Old 2015-08-27, 06:09 PM   #18
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I don't think any artists take on Springer has been stocky, he's (at least, might actually be a bit taller) the same height as sniper Perceptor and he's a lanky bugger.

And yes, BURN WARCRY. For many reasons.
 
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Old 2015-08-27, 08:59 PM   #19
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I actually like repaints, oddly enough. When my brother was little, he used to get these little rubbery plastic toys, called Monster In My Pocket. They came in a bunch of colours, and I kinda admired how casting a figure in a different colour could make so much difference in the 'mood' of a toy.

Different colourways bring out different details, provide a different ambiance, project different personalities. Combiner Wars Battle Core Prime is just a white and gold redeco, but it looks and feels, well, regal.

If there's a toy I like, I will be all over its repaints like a rash. I have all four MP Datsuns and a fifth (blue Bluestreak) will be in my mitts this weekend. Call me a sucker or a sheep or a corporate zombie or Hasbro apologist or whatever, I don't care.

I think it helps that I see these things as toys, rather than characters. Whilst some people have attachments to names and images, my one criteria is, do I like that figure on an aesthetic level? I know some people who are up in arms about CW Ironhide, because he's not a van and he has no windscreen chest. But I never take that into account; my yardstick is never, 'oh, what's he supposed to look like?'. That toy is like blasphemy to some gee-wunners but to me he's just a decent, playable figure in nice colours, accuracy be damned.

To me it's no different to buying lots of Lacoste polo shirts in different colours, the same comic with different covers, or anything else that's essentially the same product with a different look. There are copies of The White Album that go for thousands, based purely on them having specific numbers stamped on the sleeve. Is that mentality so different from paying over the odds for a Combiner Wars Impactor?

I dunno, each to their own, I guess. We all have our foibles - mine is repaints.
 
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Old 2015-08-27, 09:08 PM   #20
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I don't mind repaints so much, but I do feel CW has been a little bit overkill on this front. Some of my favourite toys are repaints*; Universe Nemesis Prime, RID Scourge, The Beast Machines Dinobots (all of whom have rich and vibrant colours that their Neo predecessors lack.

*does this sound like 'some of my best friends are gay/black/straight/hispanic/insert your own stereotype here?
 
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