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Old 2015-11-11, 12:26 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
It also comes from a happier world with no Voyager or Enterprise in it.
Or Generations!
 
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Old 2015-11-13, 12:09 AM   #82
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So a new Trek TV series is coming to CBS' online subscription service (in America anyway, I suspect it'll actually wind up with a good chance of making it to TV in this country, Trek always used to do well for Sky) in January 2017, from Orci and Kurtsman. With the X Files this January it looks like that's the month for inevitably crushing disappointments.
As writers Orci and Kurtzman pretty much suck the ONLY thing that they wrote that didn't totally suck was an episode of Xena Warrior Princess IIRC it the one where Xena gave birth to her daughter Eve, and since it was the kick-off to "The Twilight of the Gods" storyline that went through the whole fifth season and the fact the Hercules guest starred and it ends with Herc killing his father Zeus to protect Xena, Gabrielle, and Eve and was a turning point in that show and Hercules: The Legendary Journeys. The only problem is that if you want to see Xena and Hercules actually share any amount of screen time you will be disappointed it feels like they took half script from shows and smashed them together. Xena and Gabrielle go to the Underworld to steal Hades' invisibility helmet and learn that Hades has tricked Xena's dead son into coming to Tartus (the ancient Greek version of Hell) because he can see what a life in which Xena was actually acts like the mother he wanted. Xena of course doesn't like this and now has to rescue her son's soul and put him in Elysium (the ancient Greek version of Heaven), steal the helmet and get out of Tartus before she has Eve. While Hercules and Hera go after the rib bones of Cronus, Zeus' father, to make into a weapon because it's one of the few things that can kill a god. Like I said this the best thing that they wrote that IMHO doesn't totally suck. Now as executive producers they are pretty good with movies like Eagle Eye and Now You See Me are more to watch than any of their written drek and Transformers: Prime speaks for itself.

Sadly I want to return to original Star Trek Universe and leave their convoluted mess in trash. I think the original Star Trek Universe has plenty of stories left to tell and a setting a new TV series in that Universe say about 100 years after the events of Nemesis and what happened to Spock.
 



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Old 2015-11-17, 08:26 PM   #83
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Yeah, I'd rather see something set in the original universe than the movie one as well. I don't think it's all that likely, though, while the movies are still going.

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He was originally supposed to be science officer (and sit in the third seat in the centre, I think someone realised that without a place on the bridge Troi basically wouldn't be in the show. Then he was supposed to be walking about the rear consoles like Worf does in season 1), but make up and costume tests showed the gold skin and the blue uniform didn't mesh well together visually so they made up a new position for him.
Yeah, I remember hearing that as well. It's a shame they didn't just stick to their guns and go with it, since he would have made way more sense in that role.

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Why they just didn't change the colour of science (after all, you could argue it's as close to engineering as it is to medical) when they mucked about with some of the other colours in relation to the original series I'm not sure.
Speaking of, do we know why they swapped the colours for command and operations for TNG in the first place? I do like red better as the command colour, so I'm not complaining, but it seemed like an odd change to make.

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Science officer is an obvious omission from the D's senior staff, with the whole exploration angle you'd have thought they'd have been more likely to make it than Dax on DS9.
Having Dax around made a ton of sense after they discovered the wormhole, but I've got no idea what a science officer was doing on a mission whose original specs were "rebuild Bajor and keep the Cardies from invading again". Though if Starfleet actually cared about rebuilding they would have sent a couple thousand engineers with industrial replicators, not Sisko and a handful of randoms.

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Then again, whoever replaced her as science officer didn't get to be senior staff, but suddenly the psychiatrist did. I guess Sisko was just getting his mate on staff meetings (plus, when was the last time Jadzia did something science-ey before she died anyway?).
I'd hazard a guess that they didn't even bother to fill the position until after the war ended, since there's not much point to having a science staff on hand when the place they were supposed to do science on is currently hostile territory.

As you say, Jadzia wasn't really the science officer in anything but name by the time she died. Once the war broke out she seemed to have more or less inherited Worf's job (strategic command stuff, plus Defiant XO) on account of Worf spending most of his time flying around on Klingon ships as a liason/aide to Martok.

Actually, they really should have put her in a red shirt when Sisko got promoted to Ross's staff and she landed in command of Defiant. I would say that Starfleet understandably had bigger things to worry about, but they went and made Nog an ensign a couple episodes later, so maybe not...

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Actually, did we ever see another Operations Officer? Was Harry Kim one? Jesus, that is a shit job. Poor old Data.
Kim was one too, though he had even less to do since Tuvok and Seven did a lot more science than he did. If memory serves he mostly answered the space-phone and gave exposition.

O'Brien was "Chief of Operations", but he actually had a well-defined role as the station's top maintenance/repair guy. In his case it actually made sense though, since it would have been a bit confusing to call him "Chief Engineer" of a facility that didn't have engines.

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What's especially daft is, the moment he actually chooses to go back to is probably the single worst moment he could have picked. "I'd like to be stuck under than rock getting shot at again!"
The fact that he went back only to get his ass kicked again and get Kirk killed off for real in the process is the cherry on top of that delicious cake of stupidity.

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Maybe he could even point out to Soran that he (and Kirk, and the other refugees Scotty didn't rescue. And Guinan's ghost or whatever that was) got into the Nexus in the first place by flying into it on a ship, so just ignore Data and do that again. Or even just jump in a space suit and float in rather than blowing up a bloody planet.
That's probably the biggest plot hole. Obviously the ship blowing up isn't enough to kill you if you're already inside the Nexus, since Kirk survived. So, yeah...the plan makes no sense.

I mean, worst-case scenario, why not just get someone to beam you into it?

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The Questor Tapes is out on DVD here, I keep meaning to give it a watch to see how much of Data was recycled beyond the "Robot" idea. Plus him being played by Robert "Ratchet" Foxworth is good fun.
Minus ten nerd points for calling him "Ratchet" and not "Admiral Layton" in the Trek thread. But I agree, he'd be interesting in a role like that.

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Presumably he had a ship inbetween, I think him mentioning running away very fast in it from the Cardassians during the war in The Wounded is about the only clue we get.
I assumed that was the Stargazer. Did they give dates that made that impossible?

I would like to be able to say something like "Starfleet probably wouldn't give him another ship right away after he lost the first one, especially to a foe as humiliating as the Ferengi", but Generations managed to make him lose his ship in an even worse way to an even sillier foe, so...yeah, probably.

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The main thing I don't like about the E is the bridge. It feels very ill defined in comparison to any of the others, I don't really have a clue what any of the stations do, and the slightly relaxed layout of the consoles means it feels a bit slapdash (Riker and Troi and to slightly face Picard at all times? There's an ego).
The -E bridge is definitely an eyesore. It manages to look both too roomy and too cramped at the same time, due to having a huge footprint but losing so much useable space to those ugly support beams. And I agree that I've got no clue what station is for what, other than the obvious (and oddly small) helm/ops up front. I'm not a huge fan of stations that don't have chairs either, and it seems like this design has the most of those (at least the -D's rear consoles had pull-out seats for when you needed to sit there for a long time!)

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The only other bridge that comes as close to not quite working is Voyager. Having one centre seat works. Having three centre seats works. Two, especially two that a little off centre, doesn't work.
Agreed! Voyager's bridge layout is actually really good aside from that, but the weird arrangement of the captain/XO chairs just doesn't work for me. It's like they designed the whole thing with only one chair in mind and realized after the fact that they needed somewhere to put Chakotay. Though considering how little they did with him, I'm not sure anyone would have noticed if they hadn't...

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Interesting, I'd read the higher ups nixed the idea for cost reasons. Nog probably deserved to be a regular as well (and as actual Star Fleet it would have been easier to write him into every episode as well). It's amazing that in comparison Token on Enterprise got to be a regular for four seasons.
Is it sad that I have no idea who you mean by "token", since that could easily refer to at least three people in the Enterprise cast who never had anything to do but stand around being [insert applicable ethnicity]? Are we talking Token Brit, Token Asian or Token Black?
 

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Old 2015-11-18, 01:55 PM   #84
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Speaking of, do we know why they swapped the colours for command and operations for TNG in the first place? I do like red better as the command colour, so I'm not complaining, but it seemed like an odd change to make.
I think Thesis just thought it looked better on Stewart IIRC. It's certainly hard to imagine him in gold (he looks weird in blue in Tapestry!).


Quote:
As you say, Jadzia wasn't really the science officer in anything but name by the time she died. Once the war broke out she seemed to have more or less inherited Worf's job (strategic command stuff, plus Defiant XO) on account of Worf spending most of his time flying around on Klingon ships as a liason/aide to Martok.
Worf is another who has just been given a made up job just because Ben likes him. How did the show cope without a strategic operations officer for three years hey? I think it's the one where he's stepping on Odo's toes that we get a ridged definition of what one does (coordinating Federation activity in the vicinity), which is something we pretty much never see him do. It's lucky for him Kira winds up forgetting she's XO on the Defiant during season 3 (despite this making no sense as she's not Star Fleet) and lets him start doing all that stuff.

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O'Brien was "Chief of Operations", but he actually had a well-defined role as the station's top maintenance/repair guy. In his case it actually made sense though, since it would have been a bit confusing to call him "Chief Engineer" of a facility that didn't have engines.
It does fly about in the pilot though!

O'Brien's job was a blatant "Chief is basically his first name, we can't promote him to a job that means people will have to stop calling him that! Best make him a NCO as well whilst we're at it" thing.


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I mean, worst-case scenario, why not just get someone to beam you into it?
Or put him in a space suit.


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Minus ten nerd points for calling him "Ratchet" and not "Admiral Layton" in the Trek thread. But I agree, he'd be interesting in a role like that.
General Hague surely?

[When googling to check the name of the Babylon 5 character I discovered he was married to Elisabeth Montgomery. Good work there Ratchet.]


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I assumed that was the Stargazer. Did they give dates that made that impossible?
Just checking the episode on Dailymotion, and he doesn't specify when it happened so I suppose if you assume it predated the war then it would be the Stargazer (which is what Memory Alpha seems to do), though as that was the last time he was in the sector that would mean he basically managed to miss the entire war. Just like he did with the Dominion, no commitment that man. It's bizare he's go straight from just sort of hanging about to commanding the most important ship the fleet so I can't see there not being another command inbetween.

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The -E bridge is definitely an eyesore. It manages to look both too roomy and too cramped at the same time, due to having a huge footprint but losing so much useable space to those ugly support beams. And I agree that I've got no clue what station is for what, other than the obvious (and oddly small) helm/ops up front. I'm not a huge fan of stations that don't have chairs either, and it seems like this design has the most of those (at least the -D's rear consoles had pull-out seats for when you needed to sit there for a long time!)
I think part of the problem might be that they clearly wanted to get away from the TNG look but at the same time are trying to evoke the familar feel of the series, so it's harder and more milataristic but still got the browns and and carpets going on.

More of the D did survive into the E than you might expect though, sets that weren't destroyed/heavily reworked for Voyager were the observation lounge, officer quarters and one of the corridors (or all the bits bar the tiny bit of wall for Ten Forward seen in the last Enterprise episode in other words) are all effectively the same.

According to the Okuda commentary on the blu ray (which is horribly white washed, the only mention of any behind the scenes fiction is Baird not liking a model in Picard's ready room) the bridge was pretty much ****ed by being shook around for real during Nemesis and they'd have had to make a new set for any fifth film.

The odd thing about the E interior it that is was specifically designed to the needs of the script, something I don't think was the case with any of the other hero ships. So there's an airlock on the bridge because they need to go walking on the hull and engineering is just a big room with a warp core in it to make the transformation easier and there's an awful lot of different coridoor designs so as to make journeys through the ship more visually interesting and so on.

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Agreed! Voyager's bridge layout is actually really good aside from that, but the weird arrangement of the captain/XO chairs just doesn't work for me. It's like they designed the whole thing with only one chair in mind and realized after the fact that they needed somewhere to put Chakotay. Though considering how little they did with him, I'm not sure anyone would have noticed if they hadn't...
The security guy is in a little alcove isn't he? That seems a design flaw, did no one learn from all those times Worf had to do a little jog to the point where he could jump over the barrier keeping him separate from the captain?


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Is it sad that I have no idea who you mean by "token", since that could easily refer to at least three people in the Enterprise cast who never had anything to do but stand around being [insert applicable ethnicity]? Are we talking Token Brit, Token Asian or Token Black?
The token Actual Good Actor Being Wasted in Scott Bakula of course.
 
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Old 2015-11-18, 06:52 PM   #85
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I think Thesis just thought it looked better on Stewart IIRC. It's certainly hard to imagine him in gold (he looks weird in blue in Tapestry!).
Great auto-correct fail there!

I always assumed that the red=command thing came from the old movie uniforms, where everybody important wore red?
 
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Old 2015-12-15, 09:12 PM   #86
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Star Trek Beyond trailer!:



To which fandom has reacted in a way that makes it second only to Transformers fans in how much they want their films to feel like they were made in the '80's.

I'd certainly say it's not an especially exciting trailer, which might not otherwise be a problem for a teaser if not for the fact it's been the year of bloomin' excellent teaser trailers with Star Wars, Bond and even ID4 2 all knocking them out of the park. Other than the McCoy bit there's not a huge amount to grab you there.

But, an actual strange new world, new aliens and (seemingly) not a Khan rehash as the last three films have been to various degrees. Basically everything the fandom have been demanding since the last film came out. So of course, the response has been "WAHHH WAHHHH WAHHHHH" beyond all rationality.

My main beef with the very little sense you get of the actual plot is--whilst the idea of them being cut off from the ship and stranded on the planet is an interesting one--wrecking the Enterprise again to do it seems idiotically OTT. What do they make starships out of anyway?
 
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Old 2015-12-15, 09:15 PM   #87
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Big fan of them using Sabotage in the trailer.

Because, being Star Trek, I can't stand it.

AHTHANKYOU AHTHANKYOU!

Don't watch that film, watch another film! This is the heavy heavy monster sound. STAR TREK BEYOND. NA NA NA...
 
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Old 2015-12-16, 01:41 AM   #88
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whilst the idea of them being cut off from the ship and stranded on the planet is an interesting one
So the question is "is it better than Basics?"

Also, next up on my TNG rewatch; Journey's End. In the words of Q, this is not a moment I've been looking forward to.
 
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Old 2015-12-16, 07:13 PM   #89
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Star Trek Beyond trailer!:



To which fandom has reacted in a way that makes it second only to Transformers fans in how much they want their films to feel like they were made in the '80's.

I'd certainly say it's not an especially exciting trailer, which might not otherwise be a problem for a teaser if not for the fact it's been the year of bloomin' excellent teaser trailers with Star Wars, Bond and even ID4 2 all knocking them out of the park. Other than the McCoy bit there's not a huge amount to grab you there.

But, an actual strange new world, new aliens and (seemingly) not a Khan rehash as the last three films have been to various degrees. Basically everything the fandom have been demanding since the last film came out. So of course, the response has been "WAHHH WAHHHH WAHHHHH" beyond all rationality.

This is actually the first of time since the reboot I find myself actually kind of excited to see a new Star Trek movie, mostly because I find it looks exciting and some of it is that yeah I think Justin Lin is a much better than director than Abrams, who IMHO feels like the only thing he can do is copy the styles of other (and often better) directors than he is.


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What do they make starships out of anyway?
Cardboard and toilet paper.
 



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Old 2015-12-16, 07:35 PM   #90
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You know what strikes me the most about that trailer? The fact that we're seeing the Enterprise getting wrecked and it doesn't stir any feelings in me at all.

The Trek TV shows always did a great job of making the ship into practically another character, and losing the ship was in many ways a bigger deal than losing a main cast member. The movie designs have a harder time making that connection because we don't spend nearly as much time with them, but even then I still have a bit of affection for the TOS movie refit or the E-E. But the Abramsverse ship? I couldn't care less. We practically never see any part of it aside from the bridge and their silly, industrial engine room, sets that have no personality to them at all.
 
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Old 2015-12-16, 08:55 PM   #91
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"What the hell is this?" indeed.

They're doing an increasingly poor job of feeling like anything other than generic action films.
 
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Old 2015-12-16, 09:01 PM   #92
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Speaking as somebody who's apathetic toward Trek but loves generic action movies (ie the exact person they seem to be targetting) not even I'm at the give-a-shit level.
 
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Old 2015-12-18, 04:29 PM   #93
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Yeah, it's just a very average/generic trailer.

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You know what strikes me the most about that trailer? The fact that we're seeing the Enterprise getting wrecked and it doesn't stir any feelings in me at all.

The Trek TV shows always did a great job of making the ship into practically another character, and losing the ship was in many ways a bigger deal than losing a main cast member. The movie designs have a harder time making that connection because we don't spend nearly as much time with them, but even then I still have a bit of affection for the TOS movie refit or the E-E. But the Abramsverse ship? I couldn't care less. We practically never see any part of it aside from the bridge and their silly, industrial engine room, sets that have no personality to them at all.
Strange to think actually this Enterprise is now as old as the E was when Nemesis came out. I think the 09 film was the only one since Star Trek V not to end with the Enterprise having taken so much punishment she's either immediately retired; destroyed or having to undergo a major repair job (though as least in First Contact the damage was more interior than blowing holes in the hull).

Interestingly as part of the directors defence of the trailer, he talks about the Enterprise as if she's destroyed outright rather than just very badly damaged. Which seems a bit OTT unless someone really hates the design. Normally I'd say the crew all winding up being assigned to the inevitable Enterprise A would stretch credulity, but with the way Star Fleet works in the new films it makes as much sense as anything.

I'm more curious as to how they're going to get Shatner into this, it's going to happen surely?
 
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Old 2015-12-18, 06:17 PM   #94
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The internet did the thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr_1...ature=youtu.be
 
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Old 2015-12-19, 12:27 AM   #95
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Star Wars is everywhere. People be lining up for days to see this shit. Am I the only one thinking "Calmthe****down, it's just a movie"?

Disclaimer on this being that I don't think anyone should give two shits about my opinion on what I think they should do (am aware can be dick). However, I'll be glad when this collective madness passes so that I can enjoy my movie experience without rubbing shoulders with Chewie or Han or a Jawa or whatever in the movie theatre.

/crusty old fart
 

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Old 2015-12-19, 12:34 AM   #96
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Did I mention that Star Wars has booked up Pinewood for a decade so they can do a film a year for that long? It never ends!
 
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Old 2015-12-19, 12:43 AM   #97
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Star Wars is everywhere. People be lining up for days to see this shit. Am I the only one thinking "Calmthe****down, it's just a movie"?

Disclaimer on this being that I don't think anyone should give two shits about my opinion on what I think they should do (am aware can be dick). However, I'll be glad when this collective madness passes so that I can enjoy my movie experience without rubbing shoulders with Chewie or Han or a Jawa or whatever in the movie theatre.

/crusty old fart
I guess I'm casual Star Wars fan at best I like all 6 of the previous film (in order from favorite to least 6,3,5,2,1,4) some of the early DH comics and KOTOR 1 (which IMHO has a far better story than any of the films) but they are all at best good-to-above average movies. I've never got what the big deal about any of them was. From what I've seen and read about Star Wars 7 hasn't inspired me to give a damn about it anyway.

Some of it is that I'm been burned out on Star Wars 7 all year do due the over-hype, I just can't seem to be bothered to care about it and believe me I've tried to care about it but nothing has appealed to me. None of the new Star Wars comics from Marvel despite having some creators that I'm a huge fan of involved with them I can't seem to give a damn. I hate MP games in general so I have no desire to play Star Wars: Battlefront. Since I don't have cable or satellite TV I can't watch any of the new shows unless I stream over services like XBL or PSN and I don't have the money for that.

I've tried to watch the previous films outside of the documentary Empire of Dreams and Return of the Jedi I don't think I can sit through them without going to sleep. Honestly the only movie that is coming out that I would like to see is The Hateful 8 and I'm about the same with QT as I'm with Star Wars.

The Star Trek: Beyond and ID4: Resurgence trailers are far more exciting for me to watch than any of the Star Wars films are and I would rather watch them right here and now than Star Wars 7.
 



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Old 2016-01-08, 04:54 PM   #98
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So I've started rewatching TOS. In production order!

It is actually easy to forget how good these early episodes are, Mudd's Women (only Roddenberry would create a comedy sex trafficker. And remember how Pike wanted to be one in The Cage?) is the only weak one of the 8 I've watched so far and the others stand up remarkably well considering each is basically a blueprint for a type of SF TV episode that's been remade countless times since (including by Trek of course).

The rape stuff in Enemy Within is just horrible though.
 
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Old 2016-01-14, 10:03 AM   #99
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As far as I'm concerned, the only episode in the entire series to be completely unwatchable is Omega Glory.

Meanwhile I've also been watching Star Trek in production order, and I just watched Generations. It's kind of weird, despite my misgivings towards that film, it's probably the only Next Generation movie that actually feels like a Next Generation movie. The fact that it was made shortly after the series ended probably helped. I want to say it's because the other TNG movies "feel" more like DS9 or even Voyager stylistically, but in the other hand it might just be because the film still takes place on 1701-D.

A lot of people criticized killing off the Duras sisters, but to be honest, their story was pretty much done by the time TNG ended. It's killing off Picard's brother's family off-screen solely for pathos that I have a much bigger problem with.
 
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Old 2016-01-15, 04:39 PM   #100
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Hey, remember how Riker captured the Duras sisters towards the end of season 7 and just let them go on their merry way at the end? Bet he regretted that afterwards.

Scotty not only breaks the laws of physics (though sadly he actually clearly says "I cannot break the laws of physics" rather than "I cannnnaeee"), he then invents time travel in The Naked Time by complete accident. Dude has mad skills, no wonder the Pegg version came up with transwarp beaming whilst drunk off his skull.
 
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