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Old 2015-12-31, 12:36 AM   #21
Brendocon 2.0
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It still amazes me how Claremont's second run lasted so long without showing any development at all. By the time he was allowed to murder Exiles he'd been writing X-books alongside Morrison, Winick, Whedon, Casey, David, Carey, Milligan, Kyle/Yost and Brubaker, but seemingly not once noticed that his entire approach was completely out of whack with everything else. But then the whole reason he was given X-Treme in the first place was because he couldn't be arsed to play second fiddle to Morrison, so I suppose expecting him to pay attention to other books would be asking far too much.

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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
[segue 2 - the sales on Armada #1, mind - 135k! For an Armada comic! About Armada!]
Is this a good time to mention that Diamond's sales figures are only really an indication of how many copies were bought by North America retailers and don't really reflect how many people bought from the shelves?

Because obviously I agree with the point that's being underlined by quoting (what I assume to be) their numbers, but let's not pretend they're a faultless representation.

What's that? Shut up Brend? Gotcha.

PS read The Unwritten.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 02:23 AM   #22
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All interesting stuuf. Would just like to add (as someone who jumped onboard because I spotted a dreamwave issue in the window of my local forbidden planet) that many of the people who bought the DW may have been in a far better economic place. People my age who would have been in the peak of the original g1 toys (optimus and the first lineup) were more than likely single, carefree, pretty well off and living as somewhat grown up children. I know myself and many of my friends were (but also many of my sisters friends who were of the five year ahead period). I could afford many a useless trinket and it would not be out of place to say my apartment resembled the big bang theory.

So, point being there were a lot more people who would spend on throwaway nostalga which may help explain some of those early DW sales. I stuck around for better or for worse. Nowadays, while I cant qualify as destitute by any means I do think more about what I buy. Gone is the ridiculous CD and DVD collection, I use my PC for work and gaming with no consoles in sight. (i'm also happier now, just in case it sounds like I'm complaining)

Anyway, 2015 for me through a Trans former lens:

Film / Toys / TV: No new film, don't watch the tv shows and toywise I sold a lot of clutter on. Bye bye some legit G1 toys but my daughters own fine collection of playable plastic is the new ruler in my house.

videogames I'm surprised no-one else mentioned it but Transformers: Devastation is a cracking beat em up with some fantastic boss battles, excellent use of the license and beautiful graphics and sound. Its original price of 50 was a little off-putting but a drop to 26 on steam for thanksgiving felt right and its a damn good game. Better yet, if you aren't big into games but just want to have fun playing as an ass kicking Optimus, the easy mode is perfect for non-gamers. If you like Bayonetta though, stick this on hard and go mental. Best TF video game ever IMO and I've played many.

Comics A bit of a mixed bag. Some of the points raised over MTMTE are certainly valid and this year has seen some of the tightness and plotting that made season 1 so good drop away. The new cast don't have nearly the same amount of love thrown on them as the original cast has which would explain why Roberts may be disinclined to move on. Although I'd argue that as we are still dealing with original cast stuff even now at issue 48 maybe this is always Roberts intention. I think I'm probably an army of one when my main issue over the new cast isn't why aren't they used more but why aren't they used less.

However when its been good I think MTMTE has been at its peak this year. The year started with Elegant Chaos which matched Shadowplay for me in terms of being the best overall arc MTMTE has done. The scavengers two parter was also very good fun and individually issues 35, 40 and 44 were also gems. The less good has been even less good than usual. The two parter with leeches was disjointed and generally dull, the DJD was an interesting take on the Killers but I felt in trying to give these guys a face, Roberts may have lost some of the mystique that he had built. Sometimes a villain just needs to be a villain. More recently the Getaway plot looks to have run into a quick finish and the fake out on Cyclonus was an absolute waste of some wonderful art. Still, the best Transformer comic going.

Ex-RID started the year poorly, Combiner Wars was just terrible in near every way. But I gotta admit the most recent arc has grabbed me a little and I went from going to cancel my order to keeping it on. Its a flawed comic but there's more fun to it now than there has ever been and better yet its a different type of fun to MTMTE. Kudos to Barber

Also as a plus for Barber, I thought his two one shots (Punishment and Redemption) were much better than expected. Livios art fit the bill perfectly and the condensed and finite nature of both books brought out the best in JB. I genuinely feel he works better in confines and the multi-issue of the ongoing does him no favours as often he rushes to a point in his story and then threads dull waters for a few issues, losing momentum. Not the case in the one shots.

Windblade 2 was pretty awful all round. Born as part of the awful Combiner Wars, it didn't really create its own feel (apart from seeming much less than the other two ongoings) and failed to justify it's title (its not really about windblade) or its exsistence as an ongoing. Really don't think the art fits when put alongside ex-RID and MTMTE. It's not bad in itself but these comics all live in the same universe and I felt the art created a dis-connect.

Lastly, Transformers vs GI Joe - what started as a fun and daring comic has turned into a mess. Issues 5 to 10 struggled out this year and while the art still has an appeal and the individual issues have a certain insane charm as a whole the book is all over the place with no characters to really care about and no real story to get invested in. You can try alright, but things bounce about so fast, good ideas (and there are some really good ideas) appear and disappear before they can be explored. As such, nothing leaves an impression.

Fandom I don't usually venture beyond this website so my experience of fandom is limited. The convention stuff looks great and I'd love to make it to one someday. Outside of that, this place is a nice spot to come with generally little of the hyper fan/critic that you guys seem to find on other sites. Granted, my little debate with Cliffjumper over MTMTE may have skirted the lines on friendly banter but I like to think no offence was caused and it was just a case of me and CJ being both heated arguers.

Books And yes, Daleks book came out. I've been reading his website for a good while now so I knew what to expect and to be honest I bought it more as a show of support than anything else. But the little volume has managed to stay in my bathroom and gets thumbed for a quick read quite often. I even have favourite articles now. So I can truthfully say it's a great toilet book. That's an odd but quite high recommendation for me.

So that's 2015, here's to 2016. Hopefully All are One will be an improvement on Windblade, Ex-RID will keep providing me with a pleasant surprise and MTMTE will continue to entertain me and vex Cliffy in equal measure. TF v GIJ? I'd cancel it but I reckon its coming to an end so I will stay the course on that one.

Oh, and heres to Transformers 5 hype beginning as well!
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 07:20 AM   #23
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Comics: Out of the two ongoing (wait, there's more than four issues of Windblade?), I think I prefer the one that isn't MTMTE. It's far more consistent at least as far as the mood is concerned, while MTMTE seems to jump back and forth between grimdark (whenever DJD or Overlord show up) and a sitcom (everything else), resulting in a nasty mood whiplash. However, I am enjoying the Megatron arc and I'm actually wondering how/when he's going to go back to his old ways - because we all know he's going to - but it probably means that DJD's story will be over - finished! - so there's at least something to look forward to.

Films/TV: Considering I haven't watched the movies since Revenge of the Fallen and the TV shows since Animated, I got nuthin'.

Toys: It's kind of funny, in spite of how awesome the Legends Jetfire was, it was this year I decided that, in the long run, the modern toys just aren't doing anything for me; nostalgia is the main reason I got back into Transformers in the first place, and all the new toys do to me is the "new toy" buzz which wears out in much less time than I spent anticipated them. Now the only modern line I still collect is MP. I do find it kind of amusing that HasTak are now bringing all these toys into the market that, had they come out in 2006-2010, I would've been all over them, with the Combiner Wars and everything.

Fandom: The biggest change I've observed is the comic fandom, particularly the new type of fans MTMTE in particular has attracted. I've always hated shippers but now there's not only more of those around, but there's those other tumblr subcultures I like even less. At least back in the old days they stuck to whatever corner they had chosen for themselves and kept out of sight, but now they apparently feel their ideas have become "canonized" and are crawling out of the woordworks and bringing all sorts of unsightly people with them.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 11:39 AM   #24
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Interesting to see so much mixed feedback on both MTMTE and to a larger extent its' fans in general. TBH I don't have any particular issue with the fans of it who post here (though many of the individual threads can be... interesting) but it's attracted a certain section of fanatics with little frame of reference in the same way a lot of cult things do. But as I say in this case it does seem to be affecting the quality of the material.

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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
But then the whole reason he was given X-Treme in the first place was because he couldn't be arsed to play second fiddle to Morrison, so I suppose expecting him to pay attention to other books would be asking far too much.
Ah, X-Treme. "No, no, Chris, honestly, your new book is the big one, never mind about this New X-Men rubbish. Now, which characters do you want? Bishop? Thunderbird? Rogue? No, no, mate, I'm sure we can convince Grant to let you have them *chortle*".



Quote:
Because obviously I agree with the point that's being underlined by quoting (what I assume to be) their numbers, but let's not pretend they're a faultless representation.
True, but then that's one thing that is a constant between current and past. Like the variant covers thing it doesn't really make much difference to the overall unquestionable impact - if #4 actually sold to customers, say, 80,000 copies (i.e. at least five times the most overgenereous estimate MTMTE's audience; my hunch is if the Comixology sales were anything like 5k + they'd be less reticent with figures) with 20,000 sitting on shelves orders for #6 or V2 #1 (which I think was one which did really fail to move on to customers, viz Vol 2's overall sales) would have been much lower.

PS read The Unwritten. [/QUOTE]
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 01:04 PM   #25
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In relation to fandom not being versed in a particular medium, I think it's a fine line between being over-enthusiastic from the point of the fans and being, how can I put this, condescending from the more knowing medium fan (in this case, comics)

In terms of comics I'm not going to claim to be a massive fan of the medium but I've read several Batman TPB (Killing Joke, Hush, Long Halloween - the obvious classics I guess), some Marvel (although I love their movies many of the marvel comics leave me cold - tried a lot of the recommended x-men and I just didn't enjoy them). Mixing that with Buffy Season 8 (good), Angel:after the fall (less so) along with some of the other obvious hits of the medium - Watchmen, V for Vendetta, 300, Sin City - obviously my choices are led by what gets put about in the mainstream, particularly in relation to movie adaptations. While I wouldn't say the above makes me an expert on the medium but it doesn't mean I'm judging the TF comics in a vacuum either. For me MTMTE ranks close to the top behind the likes of Preacher and the better Batmans but close to the better of the Buffy-verse stuff. But then it scores with me before I even open the page - I'm a Transformer fan so that's a plus and the art in general on MTMTE has been of a style that I've loved. Throw in that Roberts overall writing style appeals to me heavily - lots of background details to follow up, snappy characters, a heavy dose of a type of humour I like and Science that isn't too slavish to the detrement of plot. In short it suits me, but I can understand it not appealing to others.

In relation to where it stands in terms of TF comics I feel I'm much more qualified. I've read a lot of Marvel G1 (although to be fair, not in full reading order) all of G2 (heavily over rated in my view), all of DWs G1 / war within stuff and some of the side stuff like armada and vs Joe and of course a massive amount of IDW - all the G1 mainline, its movie prequel/sequel comics (I don't know why either) and their take on Joe v TF. So I feel that I can fairly judge the series in this regard and, yep, to me its the best Transformer comic ever.

God, I've rambled there. I've actually gone a bit past my point but I think I needed to put my own experience in context.

Back to the fan of brand v fan of medium thing. I guess where I would look at it is that its very easy for the more knowing comic fan to easily dismiss the fan crowd (and when they shout that MTMTE is the best comic ever I understand) but they have to realise that they are approaching it with very different expectations and crucially very different needs. I buy a TF comic as a TF fan first and foremost. I don't expect a comic fan to see the same appeal (although it does seem well regarded by the local forbidden planet staff). In the same way many of us get a lot more fun out of the TF movies because they are Trans formers, being a fan of the brand v medium can help paper over SOME problems.

But at the end of the day if the overall product is terrible, there wont be a fandom. And while the super fan is guilty of hyping the product unrealistically, the super-critic can be equally as unfair, seeking something which the title itself never aspires for.

If we take the movies, I'm not a fan in general beyond the first one but many here have a better view of them. But even the biggest fan would surely have a hard time rating them as great movies in the grand scheme of cinema - they are nowhere close. And that's fine, I don't doubt that Bay has no interest in these movies being held in that regards. Equally I'd be major dick if I held the movies up against genuine cinema heavyweights and expected it to match.

That being said, even the most over the top movie fan here is unlikely to recommend ROTF, even as a simple popcorn movie. It seems to be genuinely considered the worst. In the same way even the biggest TF fan will call out the likes of Heart of Darkness as being just terrible comics and no brand loyalty will help that one.

So point being while Roberts may have cultivated a bit of an over-enthusiastic Twitter following (and in fairness, Twitter is built for fandom - I follow Dawkins and the amount of lick arses who keep sending him pics of his own book and going "WOW look what I have! Love me Richard, Love me!" is sad) and I'm sure like any working artist he does listen to some degree to what the fans like and dislike (I don't think its impacted as much as some of you do, but how and never) I genuinely think that if his stuff really did stink the fandom would die off quickly. Star wars and Star Trek seem to be the only franchises that can survive genuine shite being put out and still maintain a following. This is probably because they built up such good will over a long time period. Roberts and MTMTE are at issue 48. If the next 15 were as bad as Heart of darkness / Costa I think most of the shine would drop from the fandom.

Ok, I've rambled enough. I think I've made a point but I cant be sure. Well done if you made it through all that.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 02:47 PM   #26
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Totally agree with Dave's comments. The only thing I would add is "D'you loike dags"?
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 04:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dave Prime View Post
In relation to fandom not being versed in a particular medium, I think it's a fine line between being over-enthusiastic from the point of the fans and being, how can I put this, condescending from the more knowing medium fan (in this case, comics)

In terms of comics I'm not going to claim to be a massive fan of the medium but I've read several Batman TPB (Killing Joke, Hush, Long Halloween - the obvious classics I guess), some Marvel (although I love their movies many of the marvel comics leave me cold - tried a lot of the recommended x-men and I just didn't enjoy them). Mixing that with Buffy Season 8 (good), Angel:after the fall (less so) along with some of the other obvious hits of the medium - Watchmen, V for Vendetta, 300, Sin City - obviously my choices are led by what gets put about in the mainstream, particularly in relation to movie adaptations. While I wouldn't say the above makes me an expert on the medium but it doesn't mean I'm judging the TF comics in a vacuum either. For me MTMTE ranks close to the top behind the likes of Preacher and the better Batmans but close to the better of the Buffy-verse stuff. But then it scores with me before I even open the page - I'm a Transformer fan so that's a plus and the art in general on MTMTE has been of a style that I've loved. Throw in that Roberts overall writing style appeals to me heavily - lots of background details to follow up, snappy characters, a heavy dose of a type of humour I like and Science that isn't too slavish to the detrement of plot. In short it suits me, but I can understand it not appealing to others.

In relation to where it stands in terms of TF comics I feel I'm much more qualified. I've read a lot of Marvel G1 (although to be fair, not in full reading order) all of G2 (heavily over rated in my view), all of DWs G1 / war within stuff and some of the side stuff like armada and vs Joe and of course a massive amount of IDW - all the G1 mainline, its movie prequel/sequel comics (I don't know why either) and their take on Joe v TF. So I feel that I can fairly judge the series in this regard and, yep, to me its the best Transformer comic ever.

God, I've rambled there. I've actually gone a bit past my point but I think I needed to put my own experience in context.
I fully admit to being massively condescending. Don't always mean to be, but it's just how I come across. I'd suggest not taking anything I say personally.

I fully appreciate where you're coming from, and none of this is meant as anything other than a generalisation, to add context to previous comments.

Watchmen, V, 300, Sin City, etc... I kind of expect people to have read those. But that's not what I'm after. They don't really have any relevance when I'm trying to establish how good MTMTE is. As an example, if somebody's telling me to watch Hollyoaks, the fact they've seen The Shield isn't really a factor into whether the recommendation carries any weight.

If you get what I'm saying.

It's like, if somebody's telling me that the new Adam Sandler movie is amazing. It doesn't matter that this person loved the Godfather and Apocalypse Now, they're still telling me that the new Adam Sandler movie is amazing. They can turn round and add the caveat that, no, it's not as good as Aguirre: Wrath of God, but nobody's expecting it to be. It may well be that the Sandler has somehow created a new movie that is excellent, it's just that the person telling me it also enjoyed All Hail Sandler, so I'm sceptical.

Not that I'm comparing MTMTE to Adam Sandler, I'm just using extremes to emphasise the point.

I don't want a comparison in regards to V or Watchmen or Planetary, because it's always going to come up short against them.

I'm more interested in how it stacks up against its contemporary titles that are chasing the same demographic. Is it as good as Morning Glories, Sex Criminals, Slott/Allred's Silver Surfer, Saga, Wicked & Divine, Chew, Invincible, Casanova, Black Science, Manhattan Projects, Thief of Thieves, etc. The stuff it's actually competing against for my time and money.

That's where we hit the stumbling block. Because a lot of the people telling me "OMG MTMTE is teh amaze" aren't actually reading much of the stuff that's on the [digital] shelf alongside it. I don't want it to be as good as Fear Agent or Preacher - I just want to know that it's worth me catching up on instead of the pile of stuff I'm already getting. That it's worth me passing up whatever Garth Ennis is launching this week. That it's worth me holding off on the next instalment of American Vampire for.

Yes, it may well be one of the best books out at the moment, but unless the person telling me that is actually reading the titles it's supposedly caning... not really trusting their opinion.

So that's what I mean by TF fans and their frame of reference in general. Just so we're on the same page.

"On a par with Buffy 8" as you've said, is information I can work with. The BtVS continuation stuff is something I'm picking up in library editions as they're collected. I know I'll like it enough to have it in that format (Dark Horse's hardcovers being phenomenal VFM helps), but I don't need to read it straight away when there's a Hellblazer reprint to be had. So thanks. Useful. Far more helpful than the opinion of somebody who watches the Unicron Trilogy for recreational purposes.

I'm assuming you don't watch the Unicron Trilogy for recreational purposes...
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 04:23 PM   #28
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I'm likely not going to have time to do a proper reply till the weekend (some dense reading here folks!), but I did want to close out 2015 by saying this is exactly the sort of thread that makes me love this place, lots of goood discussion with everyone being nice and thoughtful.

Oh, and we did get two issues of Sins of the Wreckers this year. Where Roche seems to be delighting in not doing what people might have expected and producing an completely bonkers comic.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 04:51 PM   #29
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Oh yeah, forgot to comment on sins - well, so far so good. Art, despite my initial dislike is gorgeous although as I've commented I feel the panels are too small / compact. I think its probably going to be best read as a complete piece and its fair to say it lacks LSOTW immediate appeal but I think Roche is aiming for a much different style and atmosphere.

@brendocon - good points, will respond tomorrow. Some kind of party on tonight. Seems to be spreading....

HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS! REMEMBER, FOR 2016 DONT BE A NEGATRON, BE AN OPTIMIST PRIME!

You're welcome!

*drops mic*
*walks off stage*
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 07:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Red Dave Prime View Post
even the most over the top movie fan here is unlikely to recommend ROTF, even as a simple popcorn movie. It seems to be genuinely considered the worst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ik2ikgOyNU

It's easily my favourite of the live action ones, in large part because it isn't trying to be anything more than juvenile comedy. Most of which isn't remotely funny, but there's Jetfire, Give Me Your Face, I'll Take You All On, Megan Fox, and some decent reprises of the score from the first one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brend
Wicked & Divine, Chew, Invincible
Are you still reading Invincible? Did it stop being gratuitously grimdark?

Must look in on Morning Glories again (and read the Casanova HBs I've got). W&D is lush random fun, if not particularly a keeper, and from what I've read Chew held most interest with the issues in the first HB when the concept was fresh.

It takes prior interest to weather dull/iffy runs, personally, and only things like TF or X-Men tend to achieve that. It's like average shared universe novels get slightly more of a pass than an average book set in a random author's variation.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 08:07 PM   #31
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For my own two pence, I'd say MTMTE is up there with a well written mainstream super-hero comic, Dan Slott's Spider-Man is probably a good comparrison. Large ensemble cast, bonkers mad science villains/ story-arcs (Spider Island, is brilliant despite being utterly daft nonsense about everyone in Manhattan turning into spiders and the villain being an enormous queen), but sharp characterization, witty dialogue and a lot to enjoy.

At least that's where it sits to me with my reading habits at present, which as I always bang on about are Lazarus, Black Magick, Velvet, The Fade Out and Spider-Man 2099 which I'm sticking with to see if goes anywhere after the whole Battleworld stuff (which was great for a little 5 issue run), and hoping against hope that at some point, Miguel gets to go back to 2099 as there's really no need for him to be stuck in the present. But some annoying editorial / Marvel mandate decrees it must be so. Which kind of defeats the '2099' thing. Especially as he's now wearing a suit that's more high tech than er, the one from the future. But I digress...

I can't really hold it up with other indies/ mature readers titles, because it isn't any of those things to me. Its just a good, solid bit of fun with some emotional resonance and some great art (and for me, Milne has become one of TFs definitive artists, up there with Senior and Yaniger AFAIC). I think its the first comic I've read probably since Scud that has some real heart and soul to it, and I like that.

Prior to that, I've dabbled in allsorts (a list follows) ; Batman, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, X-Force, X-Factor, Bone, Fatale, The Maxx, Tank Girl, Death's Head, Zero Hour (wish I hadn't), The Flash, Transmetropolitan, Druids, Heavy Metal, Hellblazer, Shade: The Changing Man, V for Vendetta, Marshal Law, Mazeworld, Empowered, Ghost In The Shell, The Invisibles, Doom Patrol, That News thing whatsisface did, Phonogram, Suburban Glamour, Tales From The Bog, The Land Of Nod, Hairy Mary, Nemi, Judge Dredd (particularly like The Pit and The Scorpion Dance), ABC Warriors, Judge Anderson, Toxic!, Knights Of Pendragon, The Coffin, Scott Pilgrim, Durham Red, Sinister Dexter, Nicolai Dante, Thunderbolts, Rocket Girl, Doom 2099, Ghost Rider, Motormouth, Overkill, Terminator, Batgirl and lots of others that all have names.

So, uh, have some idea of what makes a good comic (I think). I think sometimes MTMTE is a little busy for its own good. There's some stuff going on with Froid and some eyes that I can't quite make out, as these action scenes are too small and there's pesky speech bubbles obscuring the art. Maybe if they could spare some of the 20 pages of ads, this book'd have a little more space to breathe.


...I forgot to mention Dalek's book in my round up! How remiss of me. I enjoyed that also
 

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Old 2015-12-31, 08:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Are you still reading Invincible? Did it stop being gratuitously grimdark?
It's pretty much come out the other side, yeah. Though there are still plot hold-overs and the occasional bit of dubiously-judged "mature content." One of my favourite things about the series is how it's been ticking off pretty much every superhero comic trope, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was sending up 90s "grittiness".

Main problem with the book is, doing it in trades, by the time the new volume comes out I've genuinely forgotten how the previous one ended. A byproduct of having marathoned the first 15 or so volumes and inevitably slowing down as I caught up.

Quote:
Must look in on Morning Glories again (and read the Casanova HBs I've got). W&D is lush random fun, if not particularly a keeper, and from what I've read Chew held most interest with the issues in the first HB when the concept was fresh.
Morning Glories is another one that would benefit from a more predictable publication schedule, as it's a bit like being dripfed a jigsaw.

Wicked & Divine is a great read, if not anywhere near as clever as it thinks it is. Chew, while batshit mental, fell into a bit of a rut for a bit, and while the story eventually sorted itself out, it felt like it dragged on a bit too long. Still lots of fun though.

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Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
For my own two pence, I'd say MTMTE is up there with a well written mainstream super-hero comic, Dan Slott's Spider-Man is probably a good comparrison. Large ensemble cast, bonkers mad science villains/ story-arcs (Spider Island, is brilliant despite being utterly daft nonsense about everyone in Manhattan turning into spiders and the villain being an enormous queen), but sharp characterization, witty dialogue and a lot to enjoy.

At least that's where it sits to me with my reading habits at present, which as I always bang on about are Lazarus, Black Magick, Velvet, The Fade Out and Spider-Man 2099
Again, v. helpful. I adore Slott's Spidey run, it's got a great energy to it, though I only pick it up in trades. So while that's a +ve for MTMTE it's still not enough to break it in ahead of what I'm already working through.

Lazarus, Velvet, The Fade Out and SM2099 are also on the "as trades" schedule. Though the way Spider-Verse was collected means I'm still a bit behind on the latter. To be fair, if I'd known The Fade Out was only going to be 12 issues then I probably would have stuck it out in singles.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 09:03 PM   #33
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Yay for me being helpful. And gosh yes, if you've other stuff to read first / want to read first then do that. I'm not flag waving for MTMTE - not that you're inferring I was - its a good, fun book and I love it and its rapidly become my favourite TF comic ever eclipsed Furman's Marvel UK stuff for me, and I would recommend it, but y'know...no pressure

...I'm still trying to get through Y The Last Man which I adore, and am now wondering why I didn't pick this up at the time. But then sometimes its just good to discover things at your own pace, rather than at the pace the rest of the world seems to demand.
 
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Old 2015-12-31, 09:29 PM   #34
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So.. quick sum up. If you're a comic fan MTMTE is a curio but by no means essential. If you're a TF fan, its worth a gander. Yep or nope?
 
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Old 2016-01-01, 09:10 AM   #35
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I'd say its worth a gander either way, just don't be expecting some Mature Readers fare, which is where I get the impression TF fans seem to place this, if this is their only exposure to comics.

A good mainstream superhero book is worth its weight to me as any top flight MR title, and MTMTE fits nicely into that melee. And means I don't have to pick up X-Men or whatever, which are equally bad for killing characters off and then going 'Aha! Not dead really!'. Like the time Sabretooth recovered from being decapitated. Just depends on your pre-disposition to giant fighting robots.

I would say that MTMTE, of all the IDW TF books, is probably the most accessible. There's no massive backstory to worry about really, its pretty much : The war is over, we're off to space to look for the Knights Of Cybertron, wackiness ensues.

Just a shame about Dark Cybertron. Ugh.
 
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Old 2016-01-01, 04:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
...I'm still trying to get through Y The Last Man which I adore, and am now wondering why I didn't pick this up at the time. But then sometimes its just good to discover things at your own pace, rather than at the pace the rest of the world seems to demand.
One of the main benefits of coming to things after they've finished is that (as I alluded to earlier with Invincible) you can read it at a constant pace, rather than catching up and then having to wait six months for the next trade and it breaking the rhythm.
 
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Old 2016-01-02, 04:57 PM   #37
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Existing fandom has never had 130,000 comic buyers. Commercially the first DW series was massive, in terms of profile, sales, the lot, end of. The chart position figures are an absolute - it outsold X-Men.
I think we're talking at cross-purposes here in terms of how each of us is defining "Fan".

The DW comic was indeed a huge success and that shouldn't be taken away from... but it was a massive success with guys in their 20's who bought comics and had at some point been big Transformers fans (and of course, considering the pop culture phenomenon it was, there's more than enough such people to create sales that big if you catch them at the right time, something similar happened with the Devil's Due G.I. Comic didn't it?).

And of course, that's exactly the audience Dreamwave were aiming for, Prime Directive is unabashedly a nostalgia piece designed to push the buttons of people who already liked Transformers in some form or another, the equivalent of the Five Doctors. If you wanted to be cynical you could argue it was more down to the luck of timing to coincide with the peak of the 80's nostalgia boom, but then MTMTE has benefited from a similarly coincidental shift in how comic buying works as well.

The success of MTMTE, and what it is doing better than any previous modern era Transformers comic, is its bringing a sizeable number of people on board who had no interest in Transformers whatsoever before hand.


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What are you actually basing that on? Anecdotal evidence? TBH as long as I can remember female fans have been a serious percentage of fandom, and the same with younger fans (though weirdly most outright fans seem more likely to latch onto G1 than whatever was aimed at them).
A combination of a few things. Ten years of convention going, the shift towards lots more women and younger people has been massive over the last few years (as has the increase in actual children, though obviously in their case it's likely to be more down to the films), a genuine noticeable change that doesn't seem to be limited to the UK as similar changes are often commented upon when things like Botcon come up in interviews (and it's clear from their TV shirts, plushies, Rodmius Stars and cosplays what is bringing them to conventions as well).

Plus twitter, tumblr and those other strange and scary places I don't completely understand are full of these new fans.

Over the New Year period MTMTE also made several more websites "Best of..." lists (including, unsurprisingly, Comixology itself). That's a Transformers comic getting genuine critical praise from non-fan sources. As far as I'm aware that has never happened before, even when the '80's UK and US titles (which are presumably still the most successful TF comics in terms of regular sales?) were at their pomp, that's an extraordinary thing and something I think we can be proud of as fans of the franchise even if the book isn't our particular cup of tea.


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Really? Because to me it would seem to be the absolute opposite. MTMTE is the big social title no-one can wait for. RID is the one people pick up out of obligation. TBH, considering the amount of MTMTE praise which includes drive-by slagging of RID I'd say a fair percentage by both but people are happy to wait for RID. I'd be amazed if less than about 80% of the readership buy both.
Physical sales for the "Lead" books have basically not shifted noticeably since All Hail Megatron (a couple of hundred up or down being the main variation), it's fair to say it's the hardcore We Will Buy Everything fans which make up the bulk of that audience, that's not a mentality that would lead you to only buy the one twice if you were going to do that sort of thing.

Plus, as Warcry says, the non-conventional nature (in terms of how "Traditional" superhero comics are seen by those who haven't previously partaken) of the book means something like MTMTE is going to appeal a lot to people who'd never have thought of going in a comic shop five years ago. That's where the digital boost comes from, not us old farts (presumably that's why-- as the same person who gave me a rough idea of digital sales also mentioned--it's trade sales IDW are really spectacularly happy with. Things that can be picked up from Amazon easily).

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I dunno. While MTMTE has made a bit of a splash outside the fandom, the splash it made was mostly restricted to a fairly small niche. I don't want to come off as dismissive of the new readers, but most of them aren't coming for the sci-fi or the robots, and fans of gay relationship drama comics and/or robot-shipping aren't a huge demographic. It's nice that Transformers is getting some positive exposure in some communities that probably never gave it a second thought before now, and hopefully that'll lead to the creation of some more long-term fans as some of the readers explore the universe outside of MTMTE, but it's not as if the book has become a smash hit across a wide cross-section of society.
Oh sure, we're talking in terms of the American comics industry which is by definition a small and shrinking market (though embracing the potential new digital fans is a step in the direction of reversing that. Though with idiocy like Gamergate running about how welcome they'll be made to feel long term is another thing entirely), but a cult success is still a cult success.

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Yeah, that's probably true. I remember reading an interview either from around the time of LSOTW or when MTMTE first started, and he certainly made it sound like he hadn't kept up with Transformers, comics or sci-fi in general since the Eugenesis days. I certainly got the impression that he'd taken the gig more for the chance to live out a childhood dream than because of any actual ambitions to have a career as a comic writer. And who can blame him? Comics aren't exactly a growth industry these days. Anyone with any talent is going to try and get their foot in the door with TV or movie jobs purely for the sake of job security.
Yeah, that's the thing that does make me worry that he'll stay on past the Claremont Despair Horizon (and in relation to Cliffy's clarification: Guy who finished on the series at the peak of his popularity, came back years later and was a bit of a washout just redoing the same ideas over and over? Remind us of anyone?), if it's a just for fun thing aside from his day job and not directly related to his writing ambitions, what motive is there to move on as long as IDW are happy to let him carry on?

And of course, the book's lasting legacy will depend on how we can look back on it when its done. If Roberts manages 100 issues and the next 50 of them are terrible that will certainly affect things (though the fact he's able to poke fun at himself over things that haven't gone down well--his jokes at the reaction to the Personality Ticks two parter being a fine example--suggests he's still got more than enough self awareness to last a while longer). But, for the moment at least, it has actually managed to make itself the benchmark for the franchise.


Interesting to see something positive being said about Slott's Spider-Man, so many people (at least on the forums I frequent) seem down on both it and his writing these days I've actively been put off from giving it a go.


[If none of the above makes any sense, I am ill at the moment]
 
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Old 2016-01-02, 05:16 PM   #38
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Interesting to see something positive being said about Slott's Spider-Man, so many people (at least on the forums I frequent) seem down on both it and his writing these days I've actively been put off from giving it a go.
A lot of the criticism I've seen* of it seems to be that too many bad things happen to Peter, or that it his relationships don't go the way the specific reader wants them to. They want the book to be something different to what it is, so rather than drop it or ride it out they just start complaining. As with anything, the minority of people who hate something tend to shout louder than the majority who are fine with it. Plus conflict drives drama... presumably they'd rather the book focus exclusively on his days chilling at home when nothing happens?

* that I've seen. There are probably other criticisms available. It's the internet, there are always other criticisms available. There's also the thing where a whole load of people objected to Superior on principle rather than actually having read it. That happens a lot with comics on the internet these days, people rushing out to be offended by what somebody's told them happens in something, rather than what's actually happened in it.

Slott's run wouldn't have lasted this long if the sales weren't backing it up.

Mainstream superhero comics these days... they are what they are, y'know. I haven't got the time or patience to spend time bitching because they're not what I want them to be. If I don't like one I'll drop it and either catch up once it's finished and another writer's on it, or I'll drift off and find something else that scratches whatever particular itch.

Slott's ASM delivers exactly what I want from a Spidey comic. It's fast paced with a good energy, an occasionally-pretentious superhero actioner with some long-game plot-mastering and what I find to be some lovely character work. Okay, it's not Earth-shattering drama or anything particularly innovative, but I find it to be consistently fun. And that's enough for me.
 
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Old 2016-01-02, 07:31 PM   #39
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Plus twitter, tumblr and those other strange and scary places I don't completely understand are full of these new fans.
Best guess, a few additional thousand. I think it's more visibility than anything -- most TF fans and TF comics fans aren't and have never been on the handful of larger forums. DeviantArt, LiveJournal before the decline, niche forums, etc. have always been more diverse.

Convention-wise, geek in general is now mainstream. Cosplay is a big thing. The bulk of the demographic is older, more stable and more confident.
 
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Old 2016-01-04, 04:20 PM   #40
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Has this become a comic thread and is now too late to reply to the original topic?
 
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