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Old 2016-03-14, 10:50 PM   #1
Warcry
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Smile Which Classics-style toys stand out as the best to you?

Back when Classics first rolled out, just having modern toys of G1 characters was enough to get people to love them. And when the massive success of what was to have been a cheap filler line combined with a post-movie glut of cash to make Universe a possibility, the fandom as a whole was still high on the concept. The novelty of the idea has slowly burned away in light of a decade's worth of releases and probably a few hundred unique molds, though. And with Masterpiece (and to a lesser extent third-party) figures usurping Generations as the main collectors' line lately, the fandom as a whole seems to have soured quite a bit on this stuff. But there's still quite a lot to like, in my opinion. And with the ten-year anniversary of Classics coming up later this year, there's a huge library of figures to scour through now to look for favourites!

In retrospect I don't think the original Classics lineup was anywhere near as good as hype at the time suggested, but Bumblebee and Mirage definitely stand out as the gems of the line to me. Bumblebee is tiny and cute, and only adequately articulated due to his stumpiness, but captures the spirit of the character very well. Mirage is pretty much the opposite on all counts -- tall and slender with tons of joints, but not really the greatest likeness. They're both still a ton of fun a decade on, though, and I've usually got at least one version of either mold out at a time (though it's usually Fracture over Mirage, these days).

Universe put out a lot more toys than Classics but the hit:miss ratio got a lot worse, and it turned out to be the stuff I wasn't really excited for at the time that I like the most now. In particular, Legends Brawn and Beachcomber won me over by keeping the size and simplicity of the originals but adding a few more joints and (in Brawn's case) a look more in keeping with the character model. And I've got an unqualified love for Onslaught. He's just about the perfect Ultra-class toy in my books: big and solid, with electronic gimmicks that don't hamper his transformation or articulation, solid sculpting and an alt-mode that's fun to mess around with at that scale. After him, though, the pickings get slim -- there's a few other toys from the line that I like, but they all have that one big flaw that I just can't ignore that kept them from becoming a lasting favourite.

So, on to Generations! I loved the first iteration of this line (and RTS while it was going along with it) so it doesn't surprise me to find that a few of my faves came out at around this time. Though I'm surprised by what some of those favourites are. Blurr and Thrust are both absolutely beautiful, so much so that I consider both of them favourites even though they're both repaints of molds that were quite frankly sub-par by the time 2010 rolled around and one of them is a nonsense repaint of Drift. War for Cybertron Megatron also really took me by surprise...I'm not a big fan of either G1 Megatron or Prime Megatron's looks, but with this toy they seem to have put both of them into a blender and spat out something I like a lot more than either.

Straxus continues to be among my favourite Transformer toys of all. The fact that they managed to make a functional toy out of a fairly generic comic design that was never designed to transform is impressive enough, but they managed to work in a surprising amount of the comic designs visual cues, made his head look fantastic in 3D and made it a hell of a lot of fun to play with on top of it all. And then on top of it all you've got Skullgrin, one of the most insanely out of left field redecos ever, but one that actually looks really good.

Warpath is another one that's stayed on the shelf pretty consistently. His G1 design was pretty weak even by Minibot standards, but I'm impressed to this day with how well the designers managed to translate that into such a slick robot. The tank mode leaves a bit to be desired, even as sci-fi tanks go, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to make a better toy that looks much of anything like the character.

The Fall of Cybertron stuff...I tend to forget even exists, honestly.

The 30th Anniversary toys wasn't quite as "thrilling" as the branding suggested, but after FoC it was certainly a step forward. Legends Cosmos is probably my favourite toy from that era. Like Warpath it's taking the basic idea of G1 Cosmos and building out from there to come up with a robot that's far less awkward than the original while still retaining much of the character's trademark "look". Unlike Warpath it retains the character's traditional small stature and the alt-mode is a lot more coherent. And of course everyone loves Springer (and I love Sandstorm no matter what certain other people here might think). Whichever flavour you get it in I think it's far and away the best triplechanger toy ever made. All three modes look good and hold together well, and the robot's articulation isn't hampered by devoting so many joints to the transformation.

And the presence of so many Beast Wars figures was a nice surprise. The fact that some of them were actually good, though? An even bigger surprise. Waspinator left me disappointed, but Rattrap is solid and Rhinox in particular is a great illustration of what the line is so good for. The designers used modern engineering and materials to solve the problems that made the original such a poor figure. It's not even that he looks so much more like the show character, but the transformation is so much more smooth and the beast parts are so much better-integrated.

Combiner Wars doesn't have any standout figures for me, because they're enslaved to a gimmick that entails a lot of design compromises. The individual robots are mostly on the simple side, and need to be because they've got to be passable not only as robots and vehicles but also limbs or torsos. Dead End and Streetwise are probably the closest that any of the figures I own come to being great individual efforts, but even they lose a lot if you aren't able to combine them with other figures. And by that same token, none of the gestalts really stand out as great because a big robot made up of five other robots is always going to have lots of compromises, and if Superion was a standalone figure that didn't separate he'd honestly be pretty awful.

Dammit, I was trying to make this a short post, but I guess when you're talking about a decade's worth of toys even the cream of the crop is a fair number.
 
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Old 2016-03-15, 05:20 PM   #2
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Thought you were asking which line is best, not best toy in each line. Well, this is probably more enjoyable to read since each line has its own hit and miss.

Classics. Even today, Classics OP, Bumblebee, and Mirage still stands out really well to me. Oh, and Ramjet. Some of you might have question about the voyager OP but I really like his simplicity, yet works well design in both modes. Yes, I know the door panel on the arm is annoying (and I actually removed them in bot mode, oops) and the hands are weird, but he is really a fun toy to be handled. Astrotrain was okay, and he could be a voyager.

Universe. Much more here. Hound, Cyclonus, Seekers, Lambo brothers, Onslaught are all great to me. Hasbro has been trying to upgrade some of them (Hound, Cyclonus, Sunstreaker, etc) in CW line but you can easily tell how they failed especially all of them are repaint and remold. Oh, legend class Jazz. It's great. A wonderful pocket toy and looks great in both modes. I missed the legend class Wheelie. Let me hope the new one in the Titans Return (?) line is better. Don't think I need to mention the bad ones in here. But if you really want to know, Tankor/Octane is on top of the list.

Generations. It's nice to have Thundercracker, Thrust, and Dirge to complete the Seekers. Many good ones in here. Wheeljack, Kup, Warpath. Straxus has been mentioned. Scourge is a nice upgrade from the original. The bad one in this line? I think Thunderwing should totally be a voyager.

Reveal the Shield. RTS has many good ones IMO. Legend OP is fun. Legned Megatron is great. Then, JAZZ! I know many people (including me) don't like his floppy chest, but this figure is great. This is the Jazz I've been looking for. Only problem is Hasbro's lack of effort on painting him. Pursuing Takara version or get the Reprolables is a good way. Even better if you can apply your own paints. Wreck-Gar, a good one but suffered from the quality issue. Honorable mention in this line. Lugnut.

WFC. This line is supposed to be in the original Generations line but I like to separate them due to their authentic and design are based on the game. OP, Megatron, Soundwave are all great. OP is over complicated, but still a lot of fun IMO.

FOC. Like Warcry said, I like to ignore this line as well. Only honorable mention is Kickback. Unfortunately mine suffered some quality issues. The bug's front leg never wants to stay attached in the ball socket.

The 30th. Yes, I agree they are not that thrilling. We got few good ones in the new legend class. Shrapnel, Cosmos, Swerve are all pretty good. Deluxe class I would suggest Arcee. She is not perfect but good enough. I like Trailbreaker but he is too small. Voyagers could be the shinning spot of this line. Springer (I passed it), Sandstorm, Roadbuster, etc. And to be honest, I still like Blitzwing. I didn't get leader Jetfire and still decided to keep my Classics one. And Metroplex . I really want and don't really want him at the same time.

Combiner Wars. I still don't think this is a good line. One good sign is probably due to the cheaper oil price now, the figures are finally bigger and plastics are thicker. Some legend class are good, like Bombshell and Powerglide. I did get the entire Stunticons. Individually they are okay. Dead End particularly is pretty good. Motormaster is okay. Many plastics were wasted on other places but his waist. Menasor is bad. After putting him in combine mode for a little while, I feel I rather display them separately. I got Smokescreen. Not for the limb but to fill in my long waited vacancy, plus he is a remold from Dead End (or Prowl). Same thing for Sky Lynx which I haven't found one yet.

For some future line, I'm not over exciting with the headmaster ones. Probably Hardhead, but I like to keep my eyes and options open.
 
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Old 2016-03-15, 06:58 PM   #3
Knightdramon
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I think that the toys start to suffer the MP10 and MP11 syndrome---they are slowly getting outdated by current releases, despite how great they are already.

I cycled through pretty much all the moulds up until Generations/RTS.

Classics is still pure, great, fun. The figures came at the tail end of Cybertron and it shows in their engineering. Like others said, Mirage is still great. Astrotrain too. The seeker mould has not aged well, although it looks good. Bumblebee is also good. Hot Rod and Grimlock have not aged well.

Universe 2.0 is a child of its time, namely ROTF era. Good attention has been paid to the car modes. Henkei Sunstreaker is still awesome, but the rest of the moulds are just outdated. The Prowl mould was very poseable but lanky. Galvatron is, in my opinion, great, but the toy had terrible joint tolerances. I don't rate Hound and Cyclonus that highly, and the ultras are just passable by today's standards.

Generations/RTS was great, especially compared to what we get today. Drift is amazing still, RTS Jazz is HUGE by today's standards, the voyagers were decent. Thunderwing is too basic and Straxus too complex for their size. Thrust is one of the best deluxes, bang for buck, with all the paint and tooling he has. WFC Prime is a beast, the rest of the WFC fail at some different aspect each. Kup is also good.

Of note is that the Prime FE figures technically also fall under the Generations umbrella, with gems like Starscream, Cliffjumper and Bulkhead really pushing the parts count and complexity.

From then onwards, it is small victories unfortunately. Voyager Springer/Sandstorm are great. Whirl is...decent. Roadbuster and Blitzwing were just bad, in my opinion. Generations Skids is also great, but by this point pretty much all toys are smaller and lighter than they have been years ago.

Haven't had a single CW figure yet, besides messing with a CW Magnus.

I do appreciate the original designs we are getting, and some figures are really good, but the times of amazing standard retail figures have passed...
 

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Old 2016-03-15, 09:27 PM   #4
Skyquake87
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I think the various lines have churned out some good designs, but there's been fewer hits and an awful lot of mediocrity.

Of the initial Classics toys, my faves were Rodimus (that alt mode!!!), Bumblebee, Mirage and Ramjet. Wasn't really enthused by many of the others. Most of all, I liked having rub signs again. Good, fun, colourful toys with nice plastics.

Universe 2.0 was just awful. Horrible, chunky toys and some spectacular misfires in the shape of Prowl and Ironhide/Ratchet. The repurposed Cybertron toys didn't help matters either. I think what makes me frown upon this line is how it failed to build on the neat efforts of Classics and just became a poor relation to the original line - a bit of cheap filler to keep up with demand generated by the Movie toys.

Generations turned out some gems with Thrust, Warpath and Skullgrin being great toys. The Decepticons were just too piddly and lacked the bulk they should have. Possibly harmed by Hasbro's "no Voyagers" rule.

RTS again had some great stuff, Jazz, Wreck Gar and Tracks but the creeping cost cutting and the gimmick of rub signs to sell the line were pap.

WFC/ FOC - those strangely angular and bulky videogame designs didn't translate well to toys. Soundwave and his discs were fun, but beyond that? Not much.

Generations Thrilling 30 - a line that was all about the Voyagers, I've enjoyed all the ones I picked up, although some have got by on their wonky charm more than being actually good (Blitzwing, the minor disappointment of Roadbuster). I bought Jetfire, and even now, I can't really explain why. He looks better than he actually is - a strangley hollow toy decorated in tinsel.

Combiner Wars has been fun, I really like the Aerialbots but they remain the high watermark for the line that everything else has fallen far short of. The Protectobots were a huge disappointment for me, but Sky Lynx has flown in to save the day (the great blowhard).
 
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Old 2016-03-15, 10:53 PM   #5
Warcry
Likes Beast Wars toys. A lot.
 
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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
Thought you were asking which line is best, not best toy in each line.
That's an interesting question in and of itself, actually! I'd definitely throw my lot in with the first round of Generations toys. Between that, the tail-end of ROTF, HFTD and RTS I think that year or so of releases was the best that retail Transformers have ever been.

And Universe, for reasons that other folk have brought up, is easily the weakest for me.

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Universe. Much more here. Hound, Cyclonus
I really want to love Hound, but his paint quickly rotted on me much like what happened with my Universe Prowl. And I'm a fan of Cyclonus as well, but the alt-mode leaves something to be desired and I'm not entirely sold on the colour scheme. Any of them, really...Universe, Henkei and RTS were all equally off in different ways.

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Lambo brothers
I'm a huge fan of the engineering here (I love that they managed to make Sideswipe and Sunstreaker the same toy, as "brothers" would be, but still look so vastly different), but like with Cyclonus, I wasn't in love with the colours. The lack of any substantial weapons hurt them too. It's still my favourite rendition of Sunstreaker, though.

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I missed the legend class Wheelie.
I have (or maybe had?) one and barely even remembered that fact or anything about it, so I don't think you're missing much.

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The bad one in this line? I think Thunderwing should totally be a voyager.
Thunderwing still makes me sad. Looks-wise he's one of the coolest characters from the old Marvel run, but the jack-o-lantern faced runt of a toy doesn't do him justice at all.

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Then, JAZZ! I know many people (including me) don't like his floppy chest, but this figure is great. This is the Jazz I've been looking for. Only problem is Hasbro's lack of effort on painting him.
This is turning into something of a running theme for me: molds that I really like that were let down by poor-quality paint apps. I painted mine up and love it now, but consumers really shouldn't have to fix things like that on their own.

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For some future line, I'm not over exciting with the headmaster ones. Probably Hardhead, but I like to keep my eyes and options open.
The Titan Wars stuff looks like a step up in terms of size and solidity compared to CW and the few years' worth of stuff that came before it, so I'm optimistic (the fact that it focuses on an era of characters that I love helps too). But I'm also worried that they'll start charging $25 for a Deluxe to make up for the seemingly-higher production values.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
I think that the toys start to suffer the MP10 and MP11 syndrome---they are slowly getting outdated by current releases, despite how great they are already.
I don't know about that. Stuff circa 2010 made the Classics figures look old, but I think they stack up a lot better next to CW stuff or even much of the 30th anniversary waves. Mass retail stuff took a big step forwards and then an equally-big step back in the last decade.

I mean, MP stuff certainly makes Classics look old, but they're hardly aiming at the same market.

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I cycled through pretty much all the moulds up until Generations/RTS.
Same here. As more and more if it came out, though, it became harder and harder to get excited. Once they stopped being something special and started being just another main line, it became a lot easier to see all the imperfections. I think MP is starting to see a similar turn right now, actually. Once people realized that it was going to be an indefinitely ongoing thing and not just a super-rare treat, criticism ramped way up and flaws that would allowed to pass without comment on Prowl or Sideswipe are jumped on with vigour for Ironhide or Hot Rod.

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Of note is that the Prime FE figures technically also fall under the Generations umbrella, with gems like Starscream, Cliffjumper and Bulkhead really pushing the parts count and complexity.
Do they really? They were originally meant to be Generations stuff, I know, but by the time they actually came out they were their own thing.

Still great figures, though. Starscream and Bulkhead are some of my absolute favourite TFs, and the only one that I've handled and not liked was Bumblebee.

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Universe 2.0 was just awful. Horrible, chunky toys and some spectacular misfires in the shape of Prowl and Ironhide/Ratchet.
And Galvatron and Silverbolt and Tankor and Cheetor!

I think Universe really fell prey to a problem that the entire line had at that time: they were pushing out so much stuff across so many different sublines that I think a lot of toys that might have otherwise gotten another revision or two (or even wound up on the cutting room floor) got into production that otherwise wouldn't have. There's still good stuff in there, but there's also a lot more bad than there should have been.
 
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Old 2016-03-15, 11:51 PM   #6
Knightdramon
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I don't know about that. Stuff circa 2010 made the Classics figures look old, but I think they stack up a lot better next to CW stuff or even much of the 30th anniversary waves. Mass retail stuff took a big step forwards and then an equally-big step back in the last decade.

I mean, MP stuff certainly makes Classics look old, but they're hardly aiming at the same market.


Same here. As more and more if it came out, though, it became harder and harder to get excited. Once they stopped being something special and started being just another main line, it became a lot easier to see all the imperfections. I think MP is starting to see a similar turn right now, actually. Once people realized that it was going to be an indefinitely ongoing thing and not just a super-rare treat, criticism ramped way up and flaws that would allowed to pass without comment on Prowl or Sideswipe are jumped on with vigour for Ironhide or Hot Rod.

Do they really? They were originally meant to be Generations stuff, I know, but by the time they actually came out they were their own thing.

Still great figures, though. Starscream and Bulkhead are some of my absolute favourite TFs, and the only one that I've handled and not liked was Bumblebee.
What I meant [and probably didn't come across well] was that great figures come out, but then "toy technology" or philosophy, if you will, moves forward while the toys remain static.

Random example---Cybertron Evac. I had the Blades red repaint version of the mould and LOVED it. Thick ratchet joints all around. Big wide feet and ankle platforms. Nifty gimmick. Chunky helicopter with clear plastic windows, etc etc.

Generations/Thrilling 30 Sandstorm is different, but slightly more sophisticated. Triple changing. Few ratchets. More intuitive transformation, fun wheels to rotors changing gimmick, etc.

Of the two, I think Evac/Blades is the superior toy, but it feels outdated next to a more recent figure, with more tricks up its sleeve and sharper tooling.

I do agree that mass retail has taken a massive step back since 2010, but there's still a game changer here and there, which makes solid but basic figures look outdated.

I feel many TF lines suffer from the completionist angle, and as you say, it's affecting MP as well. A [theoretical] MP Grapple might be great, but at the end of the day, it will be a [theoretical] repaint of MP Inferno and will just end up at the back row of a collection of 15-20odd Autobot cars.

I recently packed away most of my MPs and was surprised at how barebones Prowl is compared to more recent releases.

FE figures did come out and were marketed as their own thing, but they were initially meant to be part of the Generations line, as a flavour for the upcoming Prime line. Starscream, Cliffjumper [IIRC] and Arcee were spotted on TRU computers with ID numbers on the Generations line before they were later revealed-re-branded as FE.
 

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Old 2016-03-16, 03:36 PM   #7
Paul053
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I really want to love Hound, but his paint quickly rotted on me much like what happened with my Universe Prowl. And I'm a fan of Cyclonus as well, but the alt-mode leaves something to be desired and I'm not entirely sold on the colour scheme. Any of them, really...Universe, Henkei and RTS were all equally off in different ways.
My Hound is still fine. Didn't they have paint issues at that time? Like Prowl's sticky paint. I agree on Cyclonus. Don't really know what Hasbro was thinking. Or they probably didn't even think. RTS Cyclonus got the color right but that set came with a terrible Hot Rod.

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..... Sideswipe and Sunstreaker ...... The lack of any substantial weapons hurt them too.
That's why I gave them different weapons (mostly from movie lines). Even Red Alert is holding something different, too. Prowl's pathetic pistol is the same. But on the other hand, I like the effort they tried to hide the weapons in the alt mode. That leaves the alt mode clean with no ugly peg holes or pegs all over the body. Look at Drift (or Blurr). His weapons are all beautifully stored and he got three swords and one of them is long. Most modern toys have some cool weapons but they mostly have no place to store in vehicle mode. Mostly either on top of the roof or the sides, with ugly peg holes.

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This is turning into something of a running theme for me: molds that I really like that were let down by poor-quality paint apps. I painted mine up and love it now, but consumers really shouldn't have to fix things like that on their own.
Agree. Sometimes we even need Reprolables' help to make the figure look even nicer. But plus the stickers price, a deluxe costs like a voyager or even more.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
I feel many TF lines suffer from the completionist angle, and as you say, it's affecting MP as well. A [theoretical] MP Grapple might be great, but at the end of the day, it will be a [theoretical] repaint of MP Inferno and will just end up at the back row of a collection of 15-20odd Autobot cars.
IMO, there are quite a lot already and still no MP JAZZ!!!
 
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Old 2016-03-17, 09:44 PM   #8
Warcry
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What I meant [and probably didn't come across well] was that great figures come out, but then "toy technology" or philosophy, if you will, moves forward while the toys remain static.
I agree with your sentiment in general but I'm not sure that Transformers is the best example of that. The 6-inch action figures I'm buying now are leaps and bounds ahead of what was available a decade ago (except for Mattel stuff, they haven't changed a bit...). But the fundamentals of Transformer design doesn't seem to have changed much since Energon or so. There's been fluctuations as time goes on depending on budget, aesthetics and target market, but I'd have a hard time looking at, say, Bombshell and Dead End from CW and saying that they're any more advanced than Battle Ravage and Sharkticon. Even MP stuff is only "better" than old main-line figures because it's got a higher budget and parts count, the basic engineering hasn't changed much.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
Random example---Cybertron Evac. I had the Blades red repaint version of the mould and LOVED it. Thick ratchet joints all around. Big wide feet and ankle platforms. Nifty gimmick. Chunky helicopter with clear plastic windows, etc etc.

Generations/Thrilling 30 Sandstorm is different, but slightly more sophisticated. Triple changing. Few ratchets. More intuitive transformation, fun wheels to rotors changing gimmick, etc.
I don't know that Sandstorm is a great comparison to Evac, really. Evac was designed to be a chunky kids' toy, while Sandstorm is meant to appeal to a broader audience and draw in both adults and kids. It's only natural that Evac is designed to be bulkier and less complex, with money spent on gimmicks and action features instead of sculpting and transformation engineering. But I think that Evac compares pretty favourably to an average PRID Voyager, who fit the same niche in the market and is contemporary to Sandstorm.

Though I think the end result is the same regardless. Whether the technology has actually gotten better or they've just started applying it to stuff aimed at a different market, the end result is that there's been a lot of good stuff since then. And stuff that was "great" in 2006, when we'd never had adult-oriented TF toys before beyond a handful of Alternators, might not look quite so great now that there's a decade worth of it in the rear-view mirror.

But I know the feeling you're talking about. A lot of toys that I thought were great when they came out in 2001 or 2006 or 2010 don't look nearly as great in 2016. I just wonder if that's a rational assessment on my part, or an emotional one: they're "old" but not old enough yet to trigger nostalgia for me like G1 or BW toys do.

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I feel many TF lines suffer from the completionist angle, and as you say, it's affecting MP as well. A [theoretical] MP Grapple might be great, but at the end of the day, it will be a [theoretical] repaint of MP Inferno and will just end up at the back row of a collection of 15-20odd Autobot cars.
Oh hell yes. That's a pox on all sorts of toy collecting, I think, but Transformers and it's massive cast is really vulnerable to it. Over the last couple years I've definitely come to realize that I appreciate things more the less I have of them. In terms of MP in particular I don't think I want to have more than a handful more because I know I won't like them as much if it goes beyond a couple shelves with my absolute favourite characters and/or designs. Beyond the upcoming Shockwave I'm not sure what (if anything) will pique my interest enough. An eventual Jazz maybe? Galvatron if they can actually get him right?

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I recently packed away most of my MPs and was surprised at how barebones Prowl is compared to more recent releases.
Absolutely. When something as the word "Masterpiece" on the label it really should come with more than just a rifle. For Prowl in particular, proper shoulder launchers (included I mean, not Amazon-exclusive BS) and a sticker sheet a la G2 Sideswipe and Bumblebee to give him the toy look really would have made it feel more special, along with maybe a cartoon-accurate accessory or two as well. Most of the line has been really stingy with accessories though, up until the last year or so, and it's one of the things that keep them from feeling legitimately "high end" in my books.

I know the price would be a bit higher, but I'd be happy to pay a few extra bucks if it meant that my G2 Sideswipe had an optional set of toy-accurate weapons, the G1 shoulder gun in G2 colours and a swappable toy-accurate head...

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FE figures did come out and were marketed as their own thing, but they were initially meant to be part of the Generations line, as a flavour for the upcoming Prime line. Starscream, Cliffjumper [IIRC] and Arcee were spotted on TRU computers with ID numbers on the Generations line before they were later revealed-re-branded as FE.
True enough, and they definitely feel like they came from a totally different toyline (and design philosophy) than the later Prime stuff.

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My Hound is still fine. Didn't they have paint issues at that time? Like Prowl's sticky paint.
Mine didn't develop sticky paint right out of the box like my Prowl did, but it certainly has it now. Or at least, it has it in the spots where the paint hasn't rubbed off entirely. Thankfully it's restricted to a small area of the toy that's mostly out of sight in robot mode, so it doesn't ruin it entirely like it does for Prowl (and eventually Bluestreak as well, I'd wager).

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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
I agree on Cyclonus. Don't really know what Hasbro was thinking. Or they probably didn't even think. RTS Cyclonus got the color right but that set came with a terrible Hot Rod.
RTS had the right shade of purple finally, but then they went and did silly things like leaving the horns unpainted, and not painting a bunch of spots that had gotten paint apps on the original toy. It's probably the closest to being right and I could probably get it there with an afternoon and a jar of silver paint, but it's still frustrating that between Hasbro and Takara they had three goes at it and all of them are so flawed.

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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
That's why I gave them different weapons (mostly from movie lines). Even Red Alert is holding something different, too. Prowl's pathetic pistol is the same.
I gave scavenged rifles to as many Universe guys as I could as well, though I couldn't find anything that looked quite "right" for many of the characters. The biggest problem for me, though, was that Red Alert and (G1) Sideswipe really don't look like themselves without their shoulder launchers. Sunstreaker I wasn't too fussed about, since I don't think he even had a weapon aside from spring-loaded fists or shoulder caps or something.

It honestly amazes me that, MP aside, so few modern incarnations of G1 characters put in the effort to give them accurate guns. The original weapons were so distinctive! It was one of the things I loved the most about the line when I was a kid. I mean, we've probably had ten Classics-style Optimus Primes now and I don't think a single one of them has a weapon that can even come close to passing for his classy 1984 laser rifle.

It's especially baffling since four of the five Classics-style BW guys have gone to some length to get the weapons reasonably screen-accurate, so somebody there realizes that people like that.

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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
But on the other hand, I like the effort they tried to hide the weapons in the alt mode. That leaves the alt mode clean with no ugly peg holes or pegs all over the body. Look at Drift (or Blurr). His weapons are all beautifully stored and he got three swords and one of them is long. Most modern toys have some cool weapons but they mostly have no place to store in vehicle mode. Mostly either on top of the roof or the sides, with ugly peg holes.
In theory I think weapon storage is a good idea, and when you can pull it off like they did with Drift it's a thing of beauty. But more often than not it goes wrong and you either wind up with a toy awkwardly pretending that part of the alt-mode is a weapon or wielding a laughable pea-shooter. Between Beast Wars and Alternators I'd more than had my fill of internal weapon storage long before Universe came along.

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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
IMO, there are quite a lot already and still no MP JAZZ!!!
You'd have to assume it's coming soon, right? Aside from maybe Galvatron that's the most popular character they've got left (even if I'd wager that, without Scatman voicing him, Jazz is nowhere near as popular in Japan as he is in the West).
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 12:26 AM   #9
Heinrad
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Oh, come on, guys. We all know what the next MP should be. MASTERPIECE NIGHTBEAT!!!!!!

-chirping of many crickets-

Okay, maybe not......

For me, I love the original Classics Hot Rod. The RTS reissue I do have a problem with, mainly due to how quickly stress lines showed up in spots.

I really like my Hound, but I haven't had any paint issues with him. I also love my Cyclonus(it's the RTS version), and Roadbuster is almost perfect(the feet could have been done a little differently).

I love my RTS Jazz, but he looks even better with the Reprolabels. Despite having to get additional pieces and a set of Reprolabels, I love my Generations Nightbeat.

I think I know why. It's the feeling the figures evoke. Does Nightbeat look like the original? No, even with the upgrade parts adding height and the model sheet chest plate, but it feels like Nightbeat. The shades. The 'ears'. The general sense of leanness. Roadbuster feels like Roadbuster: big, blocky, and carrying guns by the tons.

Sometimes it's a miss, though. I got the Combaticons because I love the characters and the designs(although the fact that Swindle is bigger than Vortex and Blast Off is just amusing), while the Aerialbots I got out of a sense of duty, and Superion will probably go into a box once I find Brawl. Yes, they're putting out a lot of stuff that could have used a revision or two, and Combiner Wars is just silly with the amount of remolding they're doing, but they're going for the big audience now, and hopefully learned a few things after AoE.
 

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Old 2016-03-18, 01:40 PM   #10
inflatable dalek
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I'm not enough of a toy expert to go into the ins and outs of each variation (I'm not even sure what most of them are called), but the highs and lows:

Highs!

Straxus. A glorious thing that arguably shouldn't work (taking something that wasn't designed to look like it transformed, have it turn into something else and also have it double as Skullgrin), but just clicks in all the right places.

Ramjet: The Classics seeker is probably the best version of any of these characters (sadly, despite how Masterpiece keeps trying and failing) and Ramjet is the most fun of the three versions I own. Look at his fab thug face, it's awesome.

Brainstorm: Big chunky fun that may have the disadvantage of a terrible jet mode (though it's very Brainstorm) but is a great dynamic toy.

Whirl: Awesome tribute to one of the more bonkers original designs.

Lows:

Prowl and Jazz. Get in the ****ing sea.
 
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Old 2016-03-18, 08:39 PM   #11
Denyer
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I don't really get the hate for RTS Jazz, since he's the reason I'm not in a rush for a 3P or MP... okay, he needs some accs, the knees are iffy and whiter plastic would have been nice, but it's a great headsculpt in particular. Magnificent Six material.


http://i.imgur.com/DCITXyu.jpg

edit: Woo! Just found his speakers as well...

edit: And inspired by that updated annual tech spec, I wonder what he'd look like with the Pretender shell...

30th Brainstorm and Straxus get votes from me. Thunderwing isn't a write-off. CW Cyclonus looks alright given the earlier one's targetmaster and some labels. ROTF Bludgeon, Blitzwing, FOC Grimlock and Doubledealer tart up nicely with some 3P bits. And that's without touching the IDW or Wreckers shelves.
 

Last edited by Denyer; 2016-03-22 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 2016-03-21, 04:02 PM   #12
Clay
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A lot of good work has been done in this vein.

I'll reiterate what I've said before (to someone, somewhere): design-wise, the peak of the brand was around 2008-2011, roughly. That includes a lot of the second movie's toys, the first segment of Generations, Reveal the Shield, Hunt for the Decepticons, and whatever other sub-line names they had in that time frame. And by design-wise, I mean stuff that appeals to me as a collector: molded detail, accuracy to fictional depictions, paintwork, articulation, etc.

Some figures that fill in both the "Classics" checkbox and time period above checkbox are:

Terradive (one of my favorite designs ever)
Warpath
Windcharger
Cyclonus
Scourge

Also, I still like the Classics Coneheads. I have a mix-and-match set (Classics Ramjet and Henkei Dirge and Thrust), but they oddly are the most complementary releases with being more lively and colorful than the Henkei and Generations counterparts. And I know that the 2006 Seeker mold is pretty conservative with articulation, but that's okay. I think they do enough to be plenty fun.
 
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Old 2016-03-21, 08:07 PM   #13
Warcry
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Originally Posted by Heinrad View Post
Oh, come on, guys. We all know what the next MP should be. MASTERPIECE NIGHTBEAT!!!!!!
I know you're joking, but I don't think Nightbeat is entirely out of the question if the line goes on long enough. Minerva was pretty prominent in her show, and Takara's done wacky releases like G2 Sideswipe and King Grimlock based on the US comics. I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's not an insanely unlikely prospect either. It's just something that won't happen until 2025. But once they've run out of mainstream G1 characters, if the line is still going strong they'll need something fresh and new to keep up the hype between Optimus #5, Prowl #2 and Bumblebee #3...

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Originally Posted by Heinrad View Post
For me, I love the original Classics Hot Rod. The RTS reissue I do have a problem with, mainly due to how quickly stress lines showed up in spots.
I love, love, love Classics Hot Rod's car mode. Unfortunately I don't think the robot mode works at all. It's all blocky, with a tiny head and ugly arms and even gets the wrist guns wrong while also ensuring he doesn't have the articulation to use them.

I'd actually really like to see another take on the character with the same alt-mode but a better robot. But in general I think Hot Rod is one of the characters still needing a good, solid Generations toy the most. Sadly, if he gets something now there's a good chance it'd be based on the godawful MTMTE design.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Brainstorm: Big chunky fun that may have the disadvantage of a terrible jet mode (though it's very Brainstorm) but is a great dynamic toy.
Wish I'd seen one in person, though TBH I think the Titans Return Deluxe will probably do it for me. Few of the -masters really have designs complex enough to warrant a modern toy bigger than that.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Whirl: Awesome tribute to one of the more bonkers original designs.
I love my Whirl, but I also had to disassemble his legs and sand the knee joints to get him to work the way he was supposed to. That's got to lose him some points, just like the need for paint touch-ups hurts Jazz in my books.

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Originally Posted by Clay View Post
Terradive (one of my favorite designs ever)
I don't know if I really consider this guy a "Classics" figure, since he's not a preexisting character and the design style is half-way between Generations and the movie stuff. But there's a few figures in that no-man's land that really deserve to be remembered. Terradive is brilliant, like you say. Probably tied with Prime FE Starscream as my favourite Deluxe jet-former. Tomahawk, Hubcap and Breacher were also quite good, but I think my favourite figure from that kinda-odd space in the line (and the closest to being a Classics toy, IMO) was Seaspray. He was big and chunky and not all that complex, but he was a lot of fun to play around with and I really love how well the designers translated tiny little G1 Seaspray into a much larger figure with so much more detail and a more realistic alt-mode.
 
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Old 2016-03-25, 02:32 PM   #14
inflatable dalek
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I know you're joking, but I don't think Nightbeat is entirely out of the question if the line goes on long enough. Minerva was pretty prominent in her show, and Takara's done wacky releases like G2 Sideswipe and King Grimlock based on the US comics. I wouldn't hold my breath, but it's not an insanely unlikely prospect either. It's just something that won't happen until 2025. But once they've run out of mainstream G1 characters, if the line is still going strong they'll need something fresh and new to keep up the hype between Optimus #5, Prowl #2 and Bumblebee #3...
****ing Masterpiece Scoop is more likely.


Quote:
I love my Whirl, but I also had to disassemble his legs and sand the knee joints to get him to work the way he was supposed to. That's got to lose him some points, just like the need for paint touch-ups hurts Jazz in my books.
Never had any issues with getting mine to stand, I guess the bow legged thing just works for me?


I don't know if I really consider this guy a "Classics" figure, since he's not a preexisting character and the design style is half-way between Generations and the movie stuff. But there's a few figures in that no-man's land that really deserve to be remembered. Terradive is brilliant, like you say. Probably tied with Prime FE Starscream as my favourite Deluxe jet-former. Tomahawk, Hubcap and Breacher were also quite good, but I think my favourite figure from that kinda-odd space in the line (and the closest to being a Classics toy, IMO) was Seaspray. He was big and chunky and not all that complex, but he was a lot of fun to play around with and I really love how well the designers translated tiny little G1 Seaspray into a much larger figure with so much more detail and a more realistic alt-mode.[/QUOTE]
 
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