BotCon 2008 registration / details and images of convention toy exclusives as they're revealed

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Denyer
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Post by Denyer » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:44 am

Treadshot A1 wrote: releasing a slightly different version of Strongarm as him.
Names are a different thing to characters.

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Post by Warcry » Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:54 am

Cliffjumper wrote:People like Crosshairs? I mean, dear God, why?
Screw you, Crosshairs is awesome.

...

I think I might be the only one on that particular bandwagon, though.
numbat wrote:Like Powerglide and Onslaught!

Erm...
Good point. With Hasbro on a "give big Classics toys to unpopular nobodies" kick right now I think all bets are off. I really wouldn't be surprised if someone well and truly random like Hubcap or Venom or, yes, even Crosshairs popped up in the next few waves of Classics (which would be awesome for me, since I love obscure characters like that). That must make it a lot harder for the Club to choose their exclusives, but from a marketing perspective it would make so much more sense for their toys to represent an existing character in some form or another.


In general I find the club's output (and 3H's before it) to be really, really sub-par. The only real blip in that pattern was last year's Classics set, and even then it was three blindingly obvious Seeker repaints alongside a fairly indifferent supporting cast.

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Post by numbat » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:49 am

It's always possible that the Club have had serious limitations imposed by Hasbro, given the increased interest in all things Transformers, and their releases of Classics figures - Hasbro may be wanting to keep their options open regarding characters?

But, really, BotCon figures are usually new characters or interpretations of old ones when there is no conflicting toy line that may want to use them.

So it's just as likely BotCon wouldn't have done those figures anyway, or that they have been restricted this year. But I'm sure someone about here knows much better than me - I'm all conjecture!

And, by the way, I really like (nae, love!) Sentinel Maximus and LOC Ramjet ;) . But others, meh... (Well, I do want Alpha Trion, but guess he's from an accepted good year, lol!)

New sale thread added with a range of Transformers including Masterpiece, Botcon, CHUG, RID, Movies etc.

Looking for MP-11T Thundercracker and MP-9 Rodimus v2 (Takara version with as few QC issues as possible).


Check out my new sale thread now!

Also items on eBay.

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Post by Treadshot A1 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:45 pm

Denyer wrote:Names are a different thing to characters.
If there wasn't that many people that liked Crosshairs, why did Hasbro use the name again? They could have named it Hound, Trailbreaker, or any other TF 4x4 and gotten away with it. There must be more people that like Crosshairs if they picked such an obscure name.

And there is nothing wrong with CROSSHAIRS!
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Post by Cliffjumper » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:17 pm

Treadshot A1 wrote:If there wasn't that many people that liked Crosshairs, why did Hasbro use the name again?
Probably because it's actually a neat name. A similar example, aptly enough, is RiD Scourge - the toy bears next to no similarities to '86 Scourge, it's just a cool, fitting name they happen to have trademarked (thankfully before the Emo Nemesis crap started). Terradive is another name someone at Hasbro seems to just like, and thus it's ended up on a string of unrelated figures of late (or is it just two and I've got confused); Downshift's a third - just a cool name they have on file that can be wheeled out for just about any toy with a transmission system. I mean, one Downshift's a damn Wheeljack homage, and none of the three I can remember have anything to do with the Omnibot...

EDIT @ Warcry: Crosshairs? Struggling to see it, myself. Weakest figure of the big TMs (though not bad in the scheme of things) and a pretty bland character too... Still, I have non-ironical love of Hubcap, so I probably shouldn't comment...

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Post by Treadshot A1 » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:38 pm

Yeah, but they could have used a name which has a character with an alt like Strongarm's that had peoople who liked it. That should have made more cash. Instead they go with Crosshairs. The only way that would make sense is if enough people like Crosshairs to make them the money that they would have made if they had gone with something people like, some other popular TF 4x4 (why can i only think of Hound and Trailbreaker... ).

MAKING MONEY IS THE ONLY THING HASBLOW CARES ABOUT!!!
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Post by Shield Strike » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:04 pm

Treadshot A1 wrote:Yeah, but they could have used a name which has a character with an alt like Strongarm's that had peoople who liked it. That should have made more cash. Instead they go with Crosshairs. The only way that would make sense is if enough people like Crosshairs to make them the money that they would have made if they had gone with something people like, some other popular TF 4x4 (why can i only think of Hound and Trailbreaker... ).

MAKING MONEY IS THE ONLY THING HASBLOW CARES ABOUT!!!
Am I getting the wrong end of the stick here or something? Are you saying that the name Hasbro slaps on a particular toy effects its sales?

Because I believe that most people would go out and buy a cool figure regardless of the name of the Transformer.

I dont tend to pay much attention to the name of any given TF if I like the actual figure. If I see a toy I like, I buy it, even if it has a stupid name and I think most people would do the same.

It seems more than a little daft to be put off buying a figure just because of some writing on the front of the box.
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Post by Cliffjumper » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:40 pm

Treadshot A1 wrote:Yeah, but they could have used a name which has a character with an alt like Strongarm's that had peoople who liked it. That should have made more cash. Instead they go with Crosshairs. The only way that would make sense is if enough people like Crosshairs to make them the money that they would have made if they had gone with something people like, some other popular TF 4x4 (why can i only think of Hound and Trailbreaker... ).
I can think of several reasons, actually... firstly, both turned up in the game looking totally different. Secondly, there could be plans for a Hound and Trailbreaker in the second film. Thirdly, Hasbro have been trying to get hold of the Trailbreaker trademark for years - the Universe/BotCon thing, the Binalt thing, the Overhaul thing. So that's why he's not an option. Fourthly, by your moronic logic, Clocker is a much more popular character than Sideswipe, Sunstreaker and just about any other car-based Autobot you'd care to mention (with the obvious exception of Bumblebee and Jazz, already used in the line), Payload the Mini-Con is more popular than Onslaught, Red Alert's old sidekick Long Arm is more popular than Hoist, the Pretender Landmine is more popular than anyone who could turn into a jeep, and so on. And let's factor onto that the fact that Hasbro haven't used the Crosshairs trademark for years, and probably wanted to keep it active - whereas Hound has been used fairly recently (well, Autobot Hound, but that's as close as they could get).

Your argument is basically moronic.

MAKING MONEY IS THE ONLY THING HASBLOW CARES ABOUT!!!


You really are a backwards moron, aren't you?
Shield Strike wrote:Because I believe that most people would go out and buy a cool figure regardless of the name of the Transformer.
Listen to this, it makes sense. The only people who pay that much attention to this sort of thing are the fans. You think a 10-year old is going to put Crosshairs back on the shelf because he's not named after someone he's never heard of?

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Post by numbat » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:19 pm

I bought Cybertron Menasor because of the incredible similarities he shared with the G1 gestalt - they're both a mess.

:swirly:

New sale thread added with a range of Transformers including Masterpiece, Botcon, CHUG, RID, Movies etc.

Looking for MP-11T Thundercracker and MP-9 Rodimus v2 (Takara version with as few QC issues as possible).


Check out my new sale thread now!

Also items on eBay.

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Post by Warcry » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:27 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Crosshairs? Struggling to see it, myself. Weakest figure of the big TMs (though not bad in the scheme of things) and a pretty bland character too... Still, I have non-ironical love of Hubcap, so I probably shouldn't comment...
Well, a lot of that has to do with him being one of the few toys I have left from my childhood that are still in one piece, although I'd argue that Sureshot was slightly worse (he certainly wasn't as durable). But after running him in the RPG for going on five years now I can safely say that Crosshairs is a character with a lot of room for interesting development if given the chance -- in a lot of ways he's the anti-Wheeljack, with all the character quirks that go along with that.

I didn't realize the awesomeness of Hubcap was even in question. :eyebrow:
numbat wrote:It's always possible that the Club have had serious limitations imposed by Hasbro, given the increased interest in all things Transformers, and their releases of Classics figures - Hasbro may be wanting to keep their options open regarding characters?
I can certainly see that, but for the most part I don't know if it's really necessary. Hasbro won't release characters using the same mold/colour scheme as the club toys, of course. From a legal perspective they probably can't, and even if they could they wouldn't because screwing over your business partners isn't a very good idea in the long run.

But I suspect there's nothing stopping them from going out and designing a new mould for Classics Thundercracker or Weirdwolf or Springer if they think there's a market for it (in fact, they've gone on record in the past saying that we'll see new-mould versions of all the triple changers if the line lasts long enough, so a new Springer is fairly likely). The club rarely has the chance to put out a 'perfect' representation of any given character because they're stuck to slapping old character identities onto moulds that weren't designed for them. The seekers last year were a major stroke of luck on their part that probably won't happen very often, and as neat as some of the other club exclusives have been (I'll admit to liking Springer and Huffer) it wouldn't take much work for Hasbro to design distinctive, closer to G1-accurate toys for most of them if the mood struck.

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Post by Jaynz » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:33 pm

Shield Strike wrote:Because I believe that most people would go out and buy a cool figure regardless of the name of the Transformer.
You would be wrong. Certain character/figure names are 'all important' to Hasbro, such as 'Optimus Prime', 'Megatron', and 'Starscream'. Classic names and show-character names sell toys. 'nobody' figures are generally shelf-warmers. This has been proven time and again since the line first came out, and is HARDLY isolated to just Transformers.

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Post by Shield Strike » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:53 pm

TFVanguard wrote:You would be wrong. Certain character/figure names are 'all important' to Hasbro, such as 'Optimus Prime', 'Megatron', and 'Starscream'. Classic names and show-character names sell toys. 'nobody' figures are generally shelf-warmers. This has been proven time and again since the line first came out, and is HARDLY isolated to just Transformers.

Well of course any figure named Optimus Prime is going to sell, a parent is going to go into a shop and see him and think " I bet my kid would like that!" and buy it as they recognise the name. Most fans will also take a look at the latest incarnation of a popular name.

However, take a nipper into a shop, ask them "do you want this one?" while showing them a TF and they'll most likely jump up and down in delight. They dont care if it's called Starscream or Fumblebunny or whatever. They want a toy.

As for your point of nobody characters being shelf fillers, well, that's a bit silly. The biggest shelf filler from the movie line has been Ratchet, a "classic" G1 name.

Your point about well known characters selling is true, as I've already said. But if nobody characters didnt sell enough units, don't you think Hasbro would have stopped using the names by now? I fail to see how the name of a character could put somebody off buying a toy they liked the look of.

I would quite like it as well if you didn't just dismiss my opinion on this topic because it doesn't agree with yours. Trying to state that someone is just wrong while discussing something like this is a bit of a cop out. " Oh, errrrm, no. Thats wrong cos I said so hur hur hur."
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Post by Jaynz » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:03 am

Shield Strike wrote:However, take a nipper into a shop, ask them "do you want this one?" while showing them a TF and they'll most likely jump up and down in delight.
Actually, nearly every time I see another parent try to select a toy for the kids, the PARENTS are the one that says 'this looks cool', but the KIDS say "But I want PRIME!" Kids have always wanted their cool characters for their action figures. Period. End of story.
As for your point of nobody characters being shelf fillers, well, that's a bit silly. The biggest shelf filler from the movie line has been Ratchet, a "classic" G1 name.
Movie Ratchet's G1 scheme actually sold out very quickly.. and 'Green' Ratchet was nearly a non-entity in the movie. So, you tell me where your logic lies.
I would quite like it as well if you didn't just dismiss my opinion on this topic because it doesn't agree with yours. Trying to state that someone is just wrong while discussing something like this is a bit of a cop out. " Oh, errrrm, no. Thats wrong cos I said so hur hur hur."
I dismiss your opinion because it's based in wrong fact. Fact that has been repeatedly established by nearly every Hasbro interview given since they STARTED given interviews on the franchise.

If the name association wasn't important, do you REALLY think they would go through incredible lengths to secure 'Bumblebee' when they could have named him 'Hot Shot'?

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Post by Nevermore » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:19 am

New pics of BotCon toys, plus the Universe/Classics 2.0 Deluxes and the Club exclusive Nightbeat.

http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid-254586.html
http://www.actoys.net/bbs/read.php?tid-254654.html
Looking for a complete Energon Sky Shadow (from Superion Maximus).
Offering: Binaltech Hound, Swindle, Ravage (Corvette), Skids.
Can buy in stores: Robot Heroes Tigatron/Inferno, Ricochet/Predaking.

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Post by tf_nerds_wife2b » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:23 am

I agree with Cliffjumper and Shield Strike. If names were that important why do transformers who aren't very popular like the ones in the movie sell? Whenever i go to a shop that sells transformers they only have a few transformers left. Even when they only have random transformers like wreckage and swindle they sell. If they weren't selling don't you think hasbro would stop making them?

Another thing, if names are so important and those transfomers sell because of their names, why is it that woolworths always have millions of legends megatron? Because in your book he should be sold out.

TRANSFORMERS sell because they are TRANSFORMERS not because they are called megatron or optimus prime.

Bumblebee still would still sell if he was called Hot Shot.


I couldnt agree more with Cliffjumper, you really are a moron.
Stop talking from where the sun don't shine.

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Post by Shield Strike » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:42 am

Actually, nearly every time I see another parent try to select a toy for the kids, the PARENTS are the one that says 'this looks cool', but the KIDS say "But I want PRIME!" Kids have always wanted their cool characters for their action figures. Period. End of story.
True enough, but which toy do they get bought? Most of the time the parent will end up buying the cheaper one rather than forking out £40 just because their kid whinges that they want Prime. At the end of the day Hasbro has sold another "nobody" toy.
Movie Ratchet's G1 scheme actually sold out very quickly.. and 'Green' Ratchet was nearly a non-entity in the movie. So, you tell me where your logic lies.
His G1 scheme didn't sell out very quickly where I am. The only movie Voyager figures you can get around here are either Ratchet or Rescue Ratchet at the moment. He has a classic G1 name so shouldn't he be flying off the sheves accoding to your logic?
I dismiss your opinion because it's based in wrong fact. Fact that has been repeatedly established by nearly every Hasbro interview given since they STARTED given interviews on the franchise.

If the name association wasn't important, do you REALLY think they would go through incredible lengths to secure 'Bumblebee' when they could have named him 'Hot Shot'?
I'm not arguing that name association isn't important. Clearly when it comes to the Starscreams and Megatrons etc it is. But to suggest someone would be put off buying a toy because it DIDN'T have a well established name seems to me a bit naive.

Back on topic. I'm a little disapointed by the pictures of Prowl, he doesn't look as impressive there as I was hoping.
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Post by Jaynz » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:11 am

You're arguing extremes and strawmen. The actual statement is simple: "Toys of established characters tend to sell better than toy-only characters".

Yes, movie figures across the board have been selling well. But I would imagine that Movie Bumblebee (in four different schemes, no less) is outselling Movie Camshaft by a smidge.

If a kid is getting an LOC toy, is he more likely going to get one of Megatron or Fireflight? Comparing an LOC toy to a deluxe movie figure is an absurd argument on the face of it.

How you can say that name and character identification is an ignorable selling point is beyond me.

As for Prime... the kid's likely to get a cheaper prime, or 'settle' for a toy that they really didn't want, or not get a Transformer at all. Why do you Hasbro is making the 'main characters' at multiple points from now on?

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Post by Treadshot A1 » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:32 am

Anyone who argues that names don't matter is dead wrong. You're all assuming that the toy itself is good. But if the toy wasn't good, naming it after classic characters WILL help it sell.

Movie Ratchet would have been warming even more shelves if it wasn't called Ratchet.

And i can't find many Ironhides or Starscreams in stores. Bumblebee is non-existent. Sure, there weren't many to begin with, but a kid wouldn't buy a Camaro if it wasn't Bumblebee. No one would want a camaro if it wasn't BB. And that goes for kids and adults.Starscream's mold is...less than good, yet he (and 'Cracker) sell like hotcakes.

And if anyone is going to argue that PRIME is a shelfwarmer, it's only because there have been too many versions that are too similar. The first version sold 5 minutes after being put on the shelf.
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Post by Denyer » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:56 am

TFVanguard wrote:Classic names and show-character names sell toys.
You're conflating two different things there -- exposure and kewl characterisation on a show will sell toys, certainly, but attaching the "classic" names to random moulds to reap huge sales through recognition factor... nah. G2 Gobots didn't take over the world, nor did ape Optimus Prime. It's a slight bit of cake icing on sales.
Treadshot wrote:Movie Ratchet would have been warming even more shelves if it wasn't called Ratchet.
If the movie character had been called Doc Bolts and been featured in the film, I'd wager it'd have sold well. The exposure counts.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:41 pm

Not all names are irrelevant - there's Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee maybe Starscream (possibly Hot Shot now), and that's about it. And that's partly due to them consistently being big rollers in each new batch of fiction - if Hasbro were insane enough to make Optimus a tiny cameo character for a couple of series, his sales would drop.

However, to suggest many more of the other names would be commercial gold is nonsense. The final series of both G1 and G2 were packed with recognisable names. MW almost entirely used classic names. Alternators almost entirely used classic names. A few names do make a difference, but not many. Energon Downshift, for example, would not have sold dramatically better if he'd been named Wheeljack. Barricade and Blackout from the film appear to have shifted about as well as Jazz and Ironhide despite being 'named after' a pair of nobody Micromasters. Name homages appeal to fans and push up sales (if they're apt... a Sideswipe fanatic would think twice before completism made him or her spring for the RiD and/or Armada 'versions'), but beyond that it's lost on most of the kids. They want whoever's coolest on the cartoon. Those often reuse names, but to read
too much into that and claim Downshift the Omnibot is hugely popular because his name's been reused a couple of times would be silly.

Part of it's trademark protection, part of it's to ensure continuity with recent ranges, and part of it is just convenience - there're a finite number of decent TF names out there, as you can tell by reading a list of the names of 99% of fan characters. If it ain't broke, don't fix it would be the maxim.

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