Transformers: Prime Cancelled

MeGrimlock · Post by **MeGrimlock** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:03 am

I'd like to see robots "in disguise" whose disguise is really a disguise, and mostly it is used as a main plot device, not just like something cool that has to be there even though the writers don't care about it.
Maybe a "new" take on the concept as well, just like it happened in Beast Wars.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:00 pm

MeGrimlock wrote:I'd like to see robots "in disguise" whose disguise is really a disguise and used as a main plot device, and not just like something cool that must be used even though the writers don't care about it.
Maybe a "new" take on the concept as well, just like it happened in Beast Wars.

Furman tried that, but apparently it doesn't have enough BUCKETS OF BLOOD for the true fans, so IDW replaced him with McCarthy, who turned the Decepticons into an army of giant metal Commoduses, leading to much rejoicing

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:08 pm

And there is the problem. The brand needs to move on at this point surely and try a few new ideas.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:52 pm

There was great potential in the concept of holomatter avatars, but the problem with them is the direction wouldn't then focus on big fighty robots, which is what most people expect from Transformers. Unless you got the balance right.

Transformers defiantely needs freshening up, though. There was soemthing invigorating about Beast Wars that we've not really got from a lot of the successive reboots from RiD onwards.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:33 pm

Red Dave Prime wrote:And there is the problem. The brand needs to move on at this point surely and try a few new ideas.

It's not Hasbro's fault if the TRUE FANS hate seeing transformers sneaking around in ugly Earth disguises. They are a corporate company, they need money, and only pandering to the bases can they get it.

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:37 pm

Kungfu Dinobot wrote:It's not Hasbro's fault if the TRUE FANS hate seeing transformers sneaking around in ugly Earth disguises. They are a corporate company, they need money, and only pandering to the bases can they get it.

I agree with that. Imagine a TF universe with no Primes, or no factions. I'm not saying that should be the way things go but I reckon any major change would be met with resistance from the hardcore base.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:54 pm

Red Dave Prime wrote:I agree with that. Imagine a TF universe with no Primes, or no factions. I'm not saying that should be the way things go but I reckon any major change would be met with resistance from the hardcore base.

Exactly. If something as superficial as munkies and bayformers can have the fans soiling themselves in rage, an overhaul of the way Autobots and Decepticons wage their war will only result in ugliness:glance:

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:45 am

Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...

I quite liked having a break from Autobots and Decepticons, with Maximals, Predacons and Vehicons.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:03 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...

I was more refering to the farce that is IDW's "business practice":p

Jaynz · Post by **Jaynz** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:27 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...

For IDW, the 'core fan' is indeed the target audience. They don't have the numbers for it to be anyone else...

I quite liked having a break from Autobots and Decepticons, with Maximals, Predacons and Vehicons.

But it's nearly the exact same formula with different alternative modes. Personally I would rather the writers get into the world a bit more, and start showing some depth to the conflict - with different mixes of characters, etc. Changing the 'gimimck' has already been done nearly a dozen times in the same number of years (hell, Skyquake, we're getting a new faction NOW, right?) - clearly that's not helping.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:34 pm

Yeah, I just liked the break from the established G1 stuff we got with Beast Wars. Okay, it all ended up tied into to everything else but it really was a refreshing change and to an extent did explore the ramifications of the end of the war and how thigns ended up. Beast Machines also tried something different, trying to show that the Transformers had evolved from organic forms to their current states.

I'd agree that there is a lot of unmined potential in really getting under the skin of things, but would that be a bit much for a potential new extension of the franchise? The comics are currently delving into all that stuff which is enriching the stories and it would be great to see that sort of thing fleshed out a bit more in cartoons, but would that be of interest to kids?

I think unless we have another Generation 2, we're unlike to get a more imaginative take on things. Transformers being what they are, its difficult to present the concept of transforming warring robots without some repetition, but I've certainly had enough of the 'meet kids - 'cons appear - have fight- win - go home' that we've had over and over.

The Wild One · Post by **The Wild One** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:06 am

Hasbro has always been wishy washy about their continuity. I remember one interview about War For Cybertron being a G1 prequel, yet High Moon Studios saying it was a stand alone. Now it did have a massive influence from the G1 cartoon continuity. Fall of Cybertron made it definitely seem like with was a G1 cartoon prequel. The writing by HMS definitely made it seem that way. Hasbro then says both of the games were Prime prequels from the get go. This is really stupid, as War For Cybertron was being developed before Prime was much of a thought.

Now with being said, the early Prime episode I was able to watch were decent. The further it went, the less interesting it became. Beast Hunters really seems to be really the end of the rope either way. The series just makes it seem like a "less futuristic" version of Cybertron.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:48 am

Jaynz wrote:But it's nearly the exact same formula with different alternative modes. Personally I would rather the writers get into the world a bit more, and start showing some depth to the conflict - with different mixes of characters, etc. Changing the 'gimimck' has already been done nearly a dozen times in the same number of years (hell, Skyquake, we're getting a new faction NOW, right?) - clearly that's not helping.

Roberts and Barber had been doing that. It's been pretty popular so far.... But it sure as hell isn't attracting new readers the way Dreamwave, Furman or McCarthy had.

Jaynz · Post by **Jaynz** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:48 pm

Kungfu Dinobot wrote:Roberts and Barber had been doing that. It's been pretty popular so far.... But it sure as hell isn't attracting new readers the way Dreamwave, Furman or McCarthy had.

Transformers is a nostalgia brand for many people (such as nearly everyone on this forum), but that isn't a guarantee of large numbers of sales. To put things in perspetive, evne Furman's run (which gets the most attention from fans) doesn't stay in the five digits. That's awful numbers there...

You should always listen to the fans to see what they like, and do your best to please them, but not at the cost of actually having a consumer base. If what the 'hard-core' fans want provably drives your product to the ground, it's well past time to stop listening to them.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:42 am

Jaynz wrote:Transformers is a nostalgia brand for many people (such as nearly everyone on this forum), but that isn't a guarantee of large numbers of sales. To put things in perspetive, evne Furman's run (which gets the most attention from fans) doesn't stay in the five digits. That's awful numbers there...

You should always listen to the fans to see what they like, and do your best to please them, but not at the cost of actually having a consumer base. If what the 'hard-core' fans want provably drives your product to the ground, it's well past time to stop listening to them.

I'd wager Furman actually tried to do something different. But when it turns out the fans don't like seeing Robots In Disguise actually being, well, Robots In DisGuise, he tried to salvage his readerbase with Stormbringer. by then, it was already too late:nonono:

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:49 am

I'd wager Furman actually tried to do something different. But when it turns out the fans don't like seeing Robots In Disguise actually being, well, Robots In DisGuise, he tried to salvage his readerbase with Stormbringer. by then, it was already too late

I kinda agree. I loved the initial idea and the focus on deception and infiltration was excellent. It seemed almost plausible that an invading alien force of powerful but few robots would try and turn nations against each other before picking up the pieces. Pity people didnt go for it.

BUT! I think part of the problem was that Furmans idea was beyond him. You needed some strong human characters and he just couldnt produce any. The pace was wrong as well. There's something to be said for slow-builds but infiltration covers very little actual plot.

Also, I cant be the only person who loved the serious side of the decepticon invasion, only to stare slack-jawed at their super-secret base hidden in plain view on the side of a mountain with a giant decepticon logo on it. That was just pure stupid.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:11 am

Red Dave Prime wrote:I kinda agree. I loved the initial idea and the focus on deception and infiltration was excellent. It seemed almost plausible that an invading alien force of powerful but few robots would try and turn nations against each other before picking up the pieces. Pity people didnt go for it.

BUT! I think part of the problem was that Furmans idea was beyond him. You needed some strong human characters and he just couldnt produce any. The pace was wrong as well. There's something to be said for slow-builds but infiltration covers very little actual plot.

Also, I cant be the only person who loved the serious side of the decepticon invasion, only to stare slack-jawed at their super-secret base hidden in plain view on the side of a mountain with a giant decepticon logo on it. That was just pure stupid.

I'm pretty sure that's the reason why Megatron swooped in to slap the sense back into his mooks. Only loose sense himself later

BTW, could you specify what was wrong with Furman's characters(besides being stock cliches, anyways), I thought they fit the story pretty well.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:20 am

Stupid names, for one, and the 'off the shelf' tropes didn't help. The Machination were an unconvincing mix. You want some steely private security firm for that, not a bunch of idiots in fancy dress.

Kungfu Dinobot · Post by **Kungfu Dinobot** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:23 am

Skyquake87 wrote:Stupid names, for one, and the 'off the shelf' tropes didn't help. The Machination were an unconvincing mix. You want some steely private security firm for that, not a bunch of idiots in fancy dress.

Yeah, it's hard to take Mr. Generic-Rich-Texan-Guy seriously, after all the parodies in cartoons.

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:09 am

I can live with the names.

But given that transformers g1 was always going to be aimed at a retro and therefore older crowd I could never understand why Furman went with Kids as the identifying characters. Why not some serious, adult characters for the Transformers to interact with and maybe add a much needed new take to the story.

In fairness to Simon, I'm not sure any comic version of the transformers have got any decent human characters. They've always felt more like plot points rather than actual characters that can keep a readers interest alongside the robots. For all its faults, AHM probably does it best, but Spike is a terrible creation (even before he really got annoying under costa).

As much as I have slated him, I think the Michael Bay moveies got the best human characters. No, not Sam and his idiot parents, but rather the marines in the first one and Mearing in the third are more the kind of characters I would like to see in the comic.