How is TF:TM a Star Wars rip off ?

Luda-Chris · Post by **Luda-Chris** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 12:52 pm

I see minimal similarities (their both set in space) but i think its exaggerated.
Ive seen Star Wars but I dont know it that well. So please tell me how TF;TM is a Star wars rip off.

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Shrapnel Clone · Post by **Shrapnel Clone** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 1:23 pm

Well, the lightsaber Megatron uses, the scrolling text at the beginning....

I'm not really a Star Wars fan, somebody else might have noticed more...

Post by **Denyer** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 3:38 pm

I can't find Zobovor's comparison chart of the Star Wars, TF:TM and GI Joe movies right now (I think bits of his site have vanished), but from what I recall:

Young rookie is counselled by grizzled veteran(s), claims his destined role not by long years of practise but by embracing a nebulous, quasi-mystical force. Meets and befriends odd alien beings who talk strangely. As Kickback mentions, light-sabre, scroll-text (in the UK version, anyway). There's supposedly a sample of a TIE fighter used a couple of times during the film.

Short version: The matrix is a blatant "Use the force!" rip-off.

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Starscreamsghost · Post by **Starscreamsghost** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:20 pm

Let's not forget the blatant Unicron = Death Star angle, and taken one step further, only the Matrix can defeat Unicron. Same for the Force to the Death Star, if I remember correctly.

There's a ton more (Springer = Han Solo, Arcee = the chick WITH HER HAIRDO MOLDED INTO HER HEAD), but I can't be bothered at the moment.

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Bruticus · Post by **Bruticus** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:25 pm

Plus both G.I. Joe The Movie and TF:TM where both written by a certain "Ron Friedman" who basically used the same plot for both movies (it's no wonder TF:TM Bombed at the cinema & G.I. Joe skipped cinema release & went straight to video)

Furman should have written the movie plot, unlike a certain mr friedman who just stole the idea for the movie when he either watched Star Wars or read the book.

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S · Post by S » Wed Jan 02, 2002 9:01 pm

Originally posted by Bruticus:
Furman should have written the movie plot, unlike a certain mr friedman who just stole the idea for the movie when he either watched Star Wars or read the book.

Wasn't Furman just a rookie doing UK fill-ins when the movie came out?

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- S

Bruticus · Post by **Bruticus** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 9:06 pm

Originally posted by S:

Originally posted by Bruticus:
Furman should have written the movie plot, unlike a certain mr friedman who just stole the idea for the movie when he either watched Star Wars or read the book.

Wasn't Furman just a rookie doing UK fill-ins when the movie came out?

Quite possible, but he still could have done a better job than Friedman.

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Megatron: Oh Crap Decepticons run, Devastators gone nuts!!!

Starscream:Huh? I don't see anything wrong with Deva... Ah Nuts!

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 9:57 pm

It also says in the trailer that it was "composed in the epic tradition of star wars."

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They were the dream--
--Mechanical beings able to transform
their bodies into vehicles, machinery
and weapons; a last line of defense
against the CHAOS-BRINGER,
UNICRON.

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"ON The Edge of Extinction!"

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Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu Jan 03, 2002 1:31 am

Plus you've got the death of the mentor-warrior [Optimus] in front of his young student [Hot Rod], Galvatron being pinged off to places unknown a la Vader @ the end of Star Wars, the blatant toy-selling vibe, the past-it actors as bad guys [Orson Welles, Sir Peter Cushing, Bronson off Grange Hill], plus the way it doesn't take Leia to get over everyone she knows being blown to atoms sort-of ties in with the little Junkon dance after the Autobots' last hope gets wiped across the surface of Junk.

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Luda-Chris · Post by **Luda-Chris** » Thu Jan 03, 2002 1:23 pm

These are very exaggereted
You call that thing Megatron used a light saber? Prime wasnt hot rods mentor he was his leader.The Force ignifies Power from within weras The Matrix Signifies Leadership. The He-Man movie was a much worse SW rip off(the non-animated one). merchandising was always apart of TF,Even Before the Movie.

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Redstreak · Post by **Redstreak** » Thu Jan 03, 2002 11:44 pm

Originally posted by Kickback:
the scrolling text at the beginning....

Looks like someone got the crap version...when it was released, and in every version except the Rhino VHS release, there are no scrolling texts with narration. Why they ever did that for that one version is beyond me; but nonetheless they did it.

Kickback, pitch that version and get a different one.

R.

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Post by **Denyer** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:14 am

Originally posted by Luda-Chris:
The Force ignifies Power from within weras The Matrix Signifies Leadership.

You have watched Transformers, right? Check out "The Return Of Optimus Prime", or any other episode where it's linked to wisdom and self-knowledge.

Also, check out the comics... remembering that the Movie is part of the UK canon, and distantly related to the US.

Look, they admitted they were ripping off Star Wars... it doesn't get much more blatant than that.

Redstreak, that's the UK version you're talking about, and those are fighting words!

Victor Caroli was part of the essence of Transformers in the same way Peter Cullen or Frank Welker was... the scrolltext was there to explain events to those unfamiliar with the cartoon series (eg, parents, casual fans), and IMHO is a lot more interesting than showing a bunch of character names and voice credits...

I'd guess that the UK version is also all over Europe, since we have a superior tape format to yours...

Plus we got the coolness factor of an end-of-film voice reassuring us that Optimus Prime wasn't dead forever! Definitely required for most of the sobbing kids in the audience...

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Quick Switch · Post by **Quick Switch** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 1:59 am

Another comparison:

When Hot Rod spars with the robot on the shuttle, and discusses "saving the others" with Magnus et. al, this directly parallels that of Luke training with the Seeker droid en route to Alderaan.

He's even using a lightsaber. Or energy weapon. Whatever. The point is, its there.

Another note: Frank Welker performed the robot. He wasn't seen again, nor was Mr. Welker credited but he provided one of the most humurous lines of the film:

"Time out time out time out!!!"

Only Mr. Welker could have carried it off. I'm not surprised in any way. Mr. Welker's talent is beyond dispute.

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" A confused enemy is a defeated enemy. "

S · Post by S » Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:46 am

One more:

Hot Rod was a talented mechanic (he fixed Kup, I can't remember if there was more), as was Luke Skywalker.

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- S

Dead Pool · Post by **Dead Pool** » Fri Jan 04, 2002 2:31 pm

Bah, you can compare any movie to Star Wars if you're that damn desperate.

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Cyclonus · Post by **Cyclonus** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:27 pm

I think the lightsaber was kindof stupid.

Originally posted by Kickback:
Well, the lightsaber Megatron uses, the scrolling text at the beginning....

I'm not really a Star Wars fan, somebody else might have noticed more...

Blitzwing 2 · Post by **Blitzwing 2** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 6:54 pm

Originally posted by Dead Pool:
Bah, you can compare any movie to Star Wars if you're that damn desperate.

Yeah, just look at Spaceballs

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Redstreak · Post by **Redstreak** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 7:26 pm

Originally posted by Stuart Denyer:

Redstreak, that's the UK version you're talking about, and those are fighting words!

Victor Caroli was part of the essence of Transformers in the same way Peter Cullen or Frank Welker was... the scrolltext was there to explain events to those unfamiliar with the cartoon series (eg, parents, casual fans), and IMHO is a lot more interesting than showing a bunch of character names and voice credits...

I'd guess that the UK version is also all over Europe, since we have a superior tape format to yours...

Plus we got the coolness factor of an end-of-film voice reassuring us that Optimus Prime wasn't dead forever! Definitely required for most of the sobbing kids in the audience...

OK, how do I do this without killing you? Hmmm...
When I was a kid the voice credits meant nothing to me, but as I grew up and learned who these guys were, it became significant--I still get chills when I see Orson Welles' name come up on screen. I have a big problem in any case when someone alters the original version of a movie(unless it's new scenes).
And just cuz it's all over Europe like that doesn't make it any less crappy IMHO...I bet it doesn't have Spike's "Oh sh*t" line either.
I don't find the thing at the end very cool either. Course I have problems with Optimus not staying dead anyway, but this is nuts too. This proves that they think they cannot survive as a franchise without the name Optimus Prime.
I won't deny how much Victor Caroli means to the franchise as a whole, but I will not condone changing the movie like that.

Sounds like the makings of another Dumbass column...

R.

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Post by **Denyer** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 10:38 pm

Kill me? I'm gonna snigger whilst you write a column about yerself!

Originally posted by Redstreak:
I have a big problem in any case when someone alters the original version of a movie(unless it's new scenes).

Okay, then, how do you feel about the cinematic version of Bladerunner versus the Director's Cut?

The cinematic version includes voice-overs which explain some of the issues present in the film, whereas the director would have preferred to leave viewers to interpret scenes for themselves.

Note that neither version is particularly faithful to Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?", which is the text adapted.

It's a hugely similar case with Transformers The Movie... Ron Friedman scripted plenty of dialogue and sequences which never made it into the film, and equally much was ad-libbed into it.

The point I'm trying to make is that THERE IS NO ORIGINAL VERSION OF A MOVIE. You can pick convenient stages in production which you might choose to champion as the "best" on the basis of authorial intent or whatever, but mostly we simply advance the one we recall best because we grew up with it. Thus, I like the ominous scrolltext reading by Mr Caroli... and I see no point at all in seeing the names of characters I haven't seen yet in the film flashed up boringly over the theme music... yeah, if I was a kid sitting in a cinema through several minutes of names which meant nothing to be, I'd be bored!

This is a film, not a made-for-TV drama! Credits go at the end of the film!

The original UK cinema release did have Spike's line, but it was cut rapidly after parents complained. Fortunately, it's now back in place in the Maverick release... so they got one thing right: we got the scrolltext, voiceovers and the full dialogue.

PS. I thought it was cool that they brought back Optimus' corpse in Dark Awakening, but I think they should have killed him off for good at the end of the episode!

Of course they don't think that the franchise can survive without Optimus Prime! It's the buzzword which still triggers recognition in everyone who isn't a hardcore lifetime fan! It's a marketing dream come true...

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Redstreak · Post by **Redstreak** » Sat Jan 05, 2002 11:16 pm

Originally posted by Stuart Denyer:

Okay, then, how do you feel about the cinematic version of Bladerunner versus the Director's Cut?

The cinematic version includes voice-overs which explain some of the issues present in the film, whereas the director would have preferred to leave viewers to interpret scenes for themselves.

Note that neither version is particularly faithful to Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?", which is the text adapted.

Voice overs? Give away the issues you're supposed to interpret yourself? Well I'm certainly not buying thatDVD anytime soon. I enjoyed very much figuring that movie out for myself when I saw it.

This is a film, not a made-for-TV drama! Credits go at the end of the film!

I dunno what world you're living in with that comment; I'd say almost 90% of the movies made today, esp. in this country, have the names of the headlining actors even before the TITLE of a movie, to say nothing for a beginning credit sequence! And the number of people that go to a movie just to see the person who's in it would astound you.
I'd rather things like that were left to the end credits, a la Star Wars, but that's not the case most of the time, and you know why? Because studios can sell the name better than the movie.
What your version is is precisely what this topic is about; a Star Wars ripoff. It looks like Star Wars but with Transformers. What made the original release and the US release better was to have those names flash across. Until I was reminded of the narration, I saw no similarity between TF: TM and SW, never even equating the two in the same sentence.
And I can tell you it means a hell of a lot more for us in the USA to see the names instead of a bogus narration; after the Rhino VHS release, there was a lot of noise made about that little change there and how much it was disliked. That convinced Rhino to put it back how it was for the DVD. You may not like it, but you're vastly outnumbered.

The original UK cinema release did have Spike's line, but it was cut rapidly after parents complained. Fortunately, it's now back in place in the Maverick release... so they got one thing right: we got the scrolltext, voiceovers and the full dialogue.

And I thought American parents were the only ones uptight enough to wipe that line out. Imagine that.

PS. I thought it was cool that they brought back Optimus' corpse in Dark Awakening, but I think they should have killed him off for good at the end of the episode!

Of course they don't think that the franchise can survive without Optimus Prime! It's the buzzword which still triggers recognition in everyone who isn't a hardcore lifetime fan! It's a marketing dream come true...

...Which disgusts the hell out of me. When I'm fully ready I'll have a rant for you on Optimus Prime and the Hasbro marketing team. I have no plans on being nice to either of them.
I see we agree on one thing, though--Dead is dead. Zombie story good, reincarnation stupid.
Call me a purist if you like, but I'll take the names over that dumbass narration any day of the week, especially, I might add, when there is another albeit shorter narration right after the credits. Talk about pointless.
I don't care about the fact that it's for the kids; they know and we know that the majority of the fandom is in their teens/twenties and older and as such has likely learned enough to know who these people are and respect how cool it is for them to be in, of all movies, TF TM! So many milestones were made in that movie, not the least of which is the fact that it was Orson Welles' last movie. Quite the distinction and more than worthy of his credit showing up in the beginning, where it can be clearly read and noticed.

R.

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Come on down to RCOSD & Redstreak's basement, where torture and pain are our game.