[BW,BM] So has anyone bought Rhino's Beast Machines DVDs yet?

Grandmaster Shockwaeve · Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:30 pm

...and received them?

I was just kinda wondering if they turned out as well as the Beast Wars releases and if people were satisfied with quality, features, etc., or if there were any major complaints (barring those on the content of the series itself) as most Amazon reviews predate its release.

Thanks!

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:49 pm

I still don't get how people can review a product that they haven't received, to be honest.

I swear, I once saw a 5star review on Amazon that said "I haven't heard this yet and only just found out about it, but I love everything else they've done so you know this is going to be Album of the Year!!!!"

I can't remember what album it was, but I've a sneaking suspicion it was crap.

Where was I? Oh, yeah. You can review source material, but never actual quality, features, yadda yadda, with a DVD. So why bother? Unless you're commenting exclusively on the actual series. And why do people write reviews that say "I like it" and nothing else?

Gah.

In answer to your question... uhm, not received it yet, no. Have ordered it, though, and it's been despatched. Probably turn up some point in July, considering my shipping option and the folks at Royal Mail here...

Brimstone · Post by **Brimstone** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:39 pm

I picked up a copy of Beast Machines at the local Fry's Electronics on Saturday. I had never seen it before, but was really looking forward to it. I was a big fan of Beast Wars (which I had also never seen until DVD) and the thought of Beast Wars + Darker Story intrigued me.

I've gotta say, it did not disappoint!

I know that a lot of people dislike, even hate, Beast Machines, but I don't understand why. I thought it was an incredibly well done show. I greatly enjoyed it.

The DVDs were well done and the case is very nice. The extras (although still very sparse) are the best set of extras so far on any of the Transformer DVD sets. So that's nice.

The one downfall is that the transfer seems to switch between widescreen and 4:3...although it's not completely noticeable. I got to the point where I just watched the whole show with my TV set to Full (I have a 16:9 TV) and for the most part it looked really good. Although the aspect ratio changed occasionally, the video and sound transfer itself was very good.

It was great to finally see the end to the original story line that muddled its way through G1 and G2 and finally got some clarity in Beast Wars and come to its conclusion in Beast Machines. But its sad at the same time in that I didn't necessarily like the outcome...but hey, it's not my story.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 pm

Originally posted by Brimstone
I know that a lot of people dislike, even hate, Beast Machines, but I don't understand why.

A lot of people take issue with the notion of Cybertron having once been organic. Despite it being plausible from the comic's Primus origin, and the organic scenery beneath the planet's surface in Dweller from the Depths (or whatever it was called).

A lot of people take issue with the continued "pollution" of the Transformers by their becoming partially organic. Obviously this argument was part of the show thematically, but they were just opposed to it flat-out.

I think the extension of the whole spark idea irked a lot of people. Throughout Beast Wars, sparks didn't really have much control over themselves. In BM, they're free-floating, self aware and able to do lotsa stuff. I think that annoyed people.

Some of the religious overtones caused friction, too, iirc. I know I wasn't overly impressed by the bridge between seasons 1 and 2. Been a while since I've seen it, but if I remember right it basically boiled down to "we can bring everybody back to life because you've forgiven him!"

But, I think part of what annoyed a lot of people (leaving aside that they were ugly as sin, Nightscream was annoying and that Botanica was a plant) was the way so many of them acted out of character. Primal becoming a religious leader blinded by faith, Rattrap becoming a bit of a coward... but mostly, Rhinox becoming a right wing zealot. Alienated a lot of people.

Me? I mostly got pissed off by the stock reuse of transformation sequences. And I don't mean the cgi sequence for the characters - I mean reusing entire scenes from previous episodes for the transforms. Going from beast mode to robot shouldn't involve footage from an entirely different location surrounded by entirely different characters. Which I recall that it frequently did.

Ho hum. Still, we learn, we grow, we get more magnanimous. We take things as what they are and don't get angry because they're not what we wanted them to be.

To be honest, I think what a lot of the criticism boils down to is that it didn't end according to peoples' fanwank fantasies. But, as you say, we're the audience, not the storytellers.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:55 pm

I think that is possibly what people didn't like about BM, really, maybe even subconsciously. It's set to basically end the original Transformers story, ignoring the old BW/BM comic or cartoon argument, and it's at all but the most detailed level tying up the story a lot of fans have been following since they were kids, and it's sort of saying "this is it, this is the end. Optimus Prime isn't here, he didn't make it. Actually, hardly any of the guys you watched in BW did, either. This is how it ends, deal with it".

This is, I think, why BM cops more flak that, say, Armada - Armada may be horrible in just about every way, but your average die-hard can just sweep it into a parallel universe. While they can do that with BM, it's a little harder as it is meant to be set in the "G1" universe, and it'd be not a million miles away from just denying the existence of TF:TM or something.

It also probably doesn't help its' rep among fans that its' failure led to the anime-styled cartoons lots of fans aren't keen on.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
and it'd be not a million miles away from just denying the existence of TF:TM or something.

Piece of piss if you're a comic fan...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:28 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
the old BW/BM comic or cartoon argument

I suspect the reason people who try and stick the Beast shows in with the comic are just desperate not to associate anything of quality with the original cartoon...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:29 pm

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
I suspect the reason people who try and stick the Beast shows in with the comic are just desperate not to associate anything of quality with the original cartoon...

This is a problem how?

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:34 pm

Originally posted by Brendocon
This is a problem how?

It's not a problem, though the grammer in my original post is...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:36 pm

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
It's not a problem, though the grammer in my original post is...

And just about every post you've made since.

Oh, wait... you meant your original post in this thread... nevermind.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:39 pm

Originally posted by Brendocon
And just about every post you've made since.

Only "just about" every one? that's a better hit rate than I expected...

Dreadwing · Post by **Dreadwing** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:03 am

Originally posted by Brendocon

Me? I mostly got pissed off by the stock reuse of transformation sequences. And I don't mean the cgi sequence for the characters - I mean reusing entire scenes from previous episodes for the transforms. Going from beast mode to robot shouldn't involve footage from an entirely different location surrounded by entirely different characters. Which I recall that it frequently did.

WHen did this happen? I watched the whole series this weekend, I didn't notice anything like that. I did notice that the animation seems to be of a lower overall quality than Beat Wars.

Watching the series now, it seems a lot better than I remember it. I was actually interested with the story this time. It may have something to do with being able to watch it so quickly, instead of seeing one episode a week and keeping up with it all. Im glad the series is finally out on DVD.

I do still think that except for Cheetor and Jetstorm, the charachters look like crap.

Alseides Prime · Post by **Alseides Prime** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:49 am

The fact that primal becoming a religious leader didnt bother me, and being a religious guy myself i dont believe anyone can be "blinded" by faith.

The fact that the maximals in beast machines were partialy organic wasnt a problem either.
People argue that because of the fact that they are part organic means that they arent cybertronian.
Doesnt matter.
They are cybertronian through and through.

A plant transformer was cool too.

All im saying is that if we stick too much to the original idea we cant see how much more there is to Transformers than just cars and jets.

AndyTurnbull · Post by **AndyTurnbull** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:24 pm

I enjoyed Beast Machines, aside from a few niggly issues with it. Tankorr/Rhinox being the main one.

Awaiting the delivery of the DVD's courtesy of Amazon.

It was a pretty well written show, the stock footage did show the lack of budget being thrown at it but all in all well worth watching.

The debut of Obsidian and Strika being one of the best episodes in any TF show.

Andy

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:15 am

BM had stock footage? When? Only time I remember them using stock footage was in "Prometheus Unbound" when Megatron reactivated the Vehicons and sent them after the Maxies inside his Citadel.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:35 pm

Thanks to dodgey region 1 stores at Memorabillia I now own this... I've seen the first two episodes and they're "MMMkayish". I'll give it the bennifit of the doubt as the new writting team settles in and see if it improves. Though considering Bob Skir claims on the interview they wanted to make it easy for new viewers to get into the show they seem to have made it as confusing as possible for everyone. And the animation is a step down from Beast Wars for whatever reason, it's most noticable when our hero's are in their original bodies as that lets you make a direct comparison.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:17 am

Well, to defend Mainframe a little, the reason Primal's original design is a little off and the wrong color is because they lost the original Primal model and had to make a new one.

AndyTurnbull · Post by **AndyTurnbull** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:18 pm

My discs arrived yesterday and I have been working my way through them. Nightscream still grates on me when he is on screen.

Quite enjoyed the interviews on the first Disc with Bob Skir and Marv Wolfman.

Will get round to the commentary at some point. On the whole fairly chuffed with the set so far and at only 22 quid a bargain.

Andy

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:17 pm

Finished the first season and I'm liking it, I even like what they did with Tankor/Rhinox (hell, after thta sort of mental rape it's no wonder he's never the same again). Dos Marv Wolfman have a thing for giant Optimus Prime statues?

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:59 am

Originally posted by Brimstone

I know that a lot of people dislike, even hate, Beast Machines, but I don't understand why.

I thought the graphics were amazing, the storyline was fairly decent, really liked the mixture of organic and cybertronian elements. The toys I thought were also pretty cool with the exception of Cheetor- who always looked sort of oddball after the changeover from BW.
I can respect everyone else's appreciation of the line, but I hated the show as a whole in the series. :\ My main reason, (and I'd guess a fair number of other opinions too), is the havok that was done with Rhinox in particular, but also with the other Maximal characters too. Having damage that is permanent to favorite / leading characters is typically a souring taste from a fan's perspective. That being said, it's fine for the genre aspect that was being attempted, but it didn't go over well for the masses, kind of like Disney's venture with the Black Cauldron. Didn't conform to expected styles, so it wasn't a big hit overall. Nevertheless, it's an interesting change from the other series, and it'll be in the house video collection eventually... cool graphics, annoying character mutilations, mind-numbing music and the rest.