Sambots?

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:10 am

article link

What do you all reckon? No more/less offensive than the other stereotypes (British Jetfire, German Doctor, etc.), or are the twins something really vile?

Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:26 am

I don't know what to think...

Catalyst Dragon · Post by **Catalyst Dragon** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:42 am

The movie won't hit my theater until Tuesday so I can't comment on the personality or voices... But as for their faces: I would love to give Bay a swift hard kick to the shin for that.

Rurudyne · Post by **Rurudyne** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:16 am

They remind me of the contestants from the old "You Bet Your Head" game from After Dark's screensaver.

I miss my old Looney Tunes screensaver!

http://tigerheli.joymonkey.com/ for info on running these gems.

Ahhh ... for the flying toasters of yesteryear!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk2hYw1sBAo

Flying out of the sun
The smell of toast is in the air,
When there's a job to be done,
The flying toasters will be there,

And its Flap! Flap! Flap!
Now help is on the way,
This vic’try song they sing,
We pop up to save the day,
On Mighty Toaster Wings!

In Brightest Day or After Dark,
When times of trouble are at hand,
The Flying Toasters set a spark,
And hope is blazing ‘cross the land!

And its Flap! Flap! Flap!
Salvation from above,
A precious gift they bring:
Gleaming Angels of Love,
On Migh-ty Toast-er Wings!

electro girl · Post by **electro girl** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:56 am

I thought as characters they were pretty shocking and wildly caricatured so there is deffinately scope for offence. I don't personally find them offensive just irritating.

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Haven't seen the movie yet, but going on what the article describes, I think he's overreacting. There aren't a great many other ways to divorce a stereotype from the people it's derogatory to than applying it orange and green robots from outer space.

But we'll see.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:42 pm

I am not a PC person. Those who know me in real life will attest that if an off-color, offensive or wildly juvenile joke needs to be made it'll likely be me making it. I think people are too sensitive in the modern world, and I don't think any topic is off-limits when it comes to laughs.

That said, even I was stupefied by what I saw in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen's Twins. These new robots, who begin the film conjoined as a shitty old ice cream truck but who soon get upgraded into Chevy concept cars, seem to be the most extreme racial caricatures seen in a movie in decades. The Twins have a simian appearance, with wide faces and huge ears.

If I'm getting this straight, the writer saw two robots he describes as simian, and thought "black people!"

I don't think it's the film that's hugely racist.

They have a 'playful' back and forth relationship, which includes them talking in some sort of modern day rap-age jive, calling each other 'bitch-ass' or 'punk,' talking with an exaggerated, crunked-up 'street' accent. They appear to be stoned all the time.

So... basic teenage stereotype, then?

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:53 pm

The twins were a more blatant and ridiculous stereotype than jazz in the first one, but i dont think they're gonna offend anyone. They reminded me most of white, middle-class kids who think they're gangstas (ie. most of the people i went to school with)

Tramp · Post by **Tramp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:55 pm

Summerhayes wrote:The twins were a more blatant and ridiculous stereotype than jazz in the first one, but i dont think they're gonna offend anyone. They reminded me most of white, middle-class kids who think they're gangstas (ie. most of the people i went to school with)

I wouldn't classify them as stereotype "black" at all, at least to me. More like stereotype back-woods country hick.

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Tramp wrote:I wouldn't classify them as stereotype "black" at all, at least to me. More like stereotype back-woods country hick.

Yeah, you can lump me in with the large number of people in the fandom that thought, upon first seeing their head designs, the twins were hillbilly caricatures instead.

Denyer wrote:If I'm getting this straight, the writer saw two robots he describes as simian, and thought "black people!"

I don't think it's the film that's hugely racist.

Perhaps not; I think he was going on the character summaries provided by people that have seen the movie (urban, ghetto, gangsta or whatever). And to be fair, a lot of the iconic racial stereotype imagery of the early 20th century portrayed blacks with exaggerated ears, lips, and eyes to give them an ape-ish appearance.

The twins may still be a bit of a leap away from that, but it's just one of those things that makes me sigh and wish that Bay et al had just gone a different route and avoided the comparison entirely.

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:45 pm

Tramp wrote:I wouldn't classify them as stereotype "black" at all, at least to me. More like stereotype back-woods country hick.

Having seen the film, the way they talk is very much the "gangsta" thing.

Clay wrote: makes me sigh and wish that Bay et al had just gone a different route and avoided the comparison entirely.

It's like the feeling I get every time jeremy clarkson opens his mouth. I know its all a bit of fun and I'm very amused, but I know someone else is going to get all defensive.

Tramp · Post by **Tramp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:16 pm

Summerhayes wrote:Having seen the film, the way they talk is very much the "gangsta" thing.

Well, I can only go by what I've heard so far, and to me, they seem to have a very thick back-woods southern accent. "I'ts Upgraade Tahm!".

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:24 pm

Denyer wrote:So... basic teenage stereotype, then?

Basically, yeah.

Post by **Clay** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:04 am

Tramp wrote:Well, I can only go by what I've heard so far, and to me, they seem to have a very thick back-woods southern accent. "I'ts Upgraade Tahm!".

So what you're saying is that you don't respect canon when it doesn't fit your idea of a character?

Tramp · Post by **Tramp** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:18 am

Clay wrote:So what you're saying is that you don't respect canon when it doesn't fit your idea of a character?

That's not it at all and you know it. It's not a matter of respecting canon or not. I'm just going by my impressions from what I have seen so far. Also, canon doesn't say that they act like a couple of "gangsta's" from the hood. That's just various people's impressions of them. Not even Michael Bay said that they were based on "gangsta's". Acording to him, they're just supposed to be a couple of hyper-active kids who aren't very bright. They sound to me like they're a couple of back-woods hicks. Their accents sound like something from Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, etc. They don't sound to me like they're from "da hood". At least not from the bits I have heard so far. They're more "Joe Bob and Bubba" than "Too Cool and Master MC" to me.

Ackula · Post by **Ackula** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:33 am

The robots do not offend me at all, but Tramp has offended the hell out of me right now.

Post by **Clay** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:36 am

Ackula wrote:The robots do not offend me at all, but Tramp is offended the hell out of me right now.

What are you talking about? We're hillbillies from the South and we can't read, duh.

Savannahtron · Post by **Savannahtron** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:33 am

Not sure about the underlying racism or stereotyping. I always felt like Transformers were bots, and did not take on race. Too bad human actors had to voice the computer generated characters. You would think that with as much computer animation, someone would be able to master sound simulation. Oh well, I guess the human voice is just too complicated to replicate naturally.

Summerhayes · Post by **Summerhayes** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:33 am

Tramp wrote: Not even Michael Bay said that they were based on "gangsta's". Acording to him, they're just supposed to be a couple of hyper-active kids who aren't very bright.

That does pretty much sum them up. Whereas Jazz was clearly meant to be an actual "gangsta", the twins are just, and I can't repeat this enough, kids who think they are gangstas

Savannahtron wrote: You would think that with as much computer animation, someone would be able to master sound simulation.

I know how incredibly off topic this is, but I've always found this intriguing as well. In games, the visual world is rendered in real-time but the sounds are still just a number of recorded clips. Are sounds harder to do, or just harder for people to do? Maybe we understand images more. Or maybe no-one's trying . . .

wyze2099 · Post by **wyze2099** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:12 pm

Personally, I have no idea WHAT the creative team was going for with the looks of the Twins' faces, but I just find them too ugly for words. From the neck down, the Skids figure looks cool enough that I've considered buying it, but from the neck up, it looks like someone spent all day hitting the face with a tire iron.

And of course the TFs would try to mimic what they think humans act like; it's part of their disguise shtick considering their native language sounds like a modem screech to human ears. All of the Autobots are adopting human accents, dialects, and speech patterns; some are just more obvious about it than others.