Which troops 'belong' with which leader?

[Warcry]

Last week I picked up the Straxus toy, and since I was a little bit bored I decided to rearrange the Classic-style Decepticons I had out on display. I decided to arrange them so that each of the Decepticon leaders had 'their' troops with them, but that turned out to be a bit harder than I thought it would be.

Some pairings are pretty obvious (Cyclonus with Galvatron, Crankcase with Bludgeon, Ravage with Megatron). Others, not so much. The Coneheads and Astrotrain are pretty solidly associated with Megatron in the cartoon, but in the comics they were Straxus's boys. But by the same token, the triplechangers were part of Ratbat's core team too -- and Shockwave's, in Earthforce. The same goes for Onslaught, who could justifiably be tied to four or five different leaders.

And being the sort of person that I am, there was no way that line of thinking was going to stop with just the characters who have toys. My brain pretty much exploded when I got to Bludgeon, since aside from a few Actionmasters his entire team was made up of leftovers from Scorponok, Thunderwing, Shockwave and Megatron.

About then I decided that I was never going to get an answer that satisfied me. But I would by lying if I said I wasn't curious what other people think. Do you guys try to subdivide the Decepticons up into teams in your head too? Or am I the only one who does that, and everyone else just thinks "Purple badge? With Megatron, then" to neatly avoid the problem?

[Cliffjumper]

The way I've always thought about it... There's some rhyme and reason, in others it's just misconception gone too far or simple whimsy.

Megatron/Shockwave: basically everyone pre-Movie. My childhood conception, based on the Marvel comics, is that this lot were led by either Megatron or Shockwave, one or the other.

Galvatron: Cyclonus and Scourge. Occasionally. Again, reading the comics long before seeing much of Season 3 (and bearing in mind he did very little actual leading of the Decepticons even in that) I've always been used to a Galvatron who didn't need troops, and have rarely thought of him as a Decepticon leader.

Scorponok: the 1987 product catalogue.

Thunderwing: a couple of Triggercons, maybe. Always had the Double TMs filed with Snarler as they do something in the Mayhems.

Bludgeon: pretty much everyone else from 1988 onwards, regardless of debut.

Straxus I never really considered much of a factor as both times he appears he's effectively written straight out; similarly I never took Thunderwing seriously as a leader because he only ever shows up with a couple of knackered Triggercons and Scorponok and co. don't ever seem aware of his existence.

I always felt the Marvel comic was missing a solid post-Straxus Cybertron commander - I know Ratbat, Megatron and Thunderwing nominally had the job, but they were always pissing round on Earth or some cowboy planet or whatever. Whenever we see Cybertron in the Marvel comic, the Autobots always have Xaaron and some crack team of bastards like the Wreckers while the Decepticon side are staffed by Flamefeather, Battletrap and some generics, and you wonder why exactly the Autobots don't seem to be doing anything about it.

[inflatable dalek]

Furman didn't seem to be able to keep track of it either, there's that one Earthforce issue the Stunticons and Battlechargers switch sides for no readily apparent reason.

[Warcry]

Megatron/Shockwave: basically everyone pre-Movie. My childhood conception, based on the Marvel comics, is that this lot were led by either Megatron or Shockwave, one or the other.

That does make sense as far as it goes. I've never really associated Shockwave with the early cast, though -- my first exposure to him as a leader was when he was leading a rebellion against Scorponok, so I tend to think of Starscream, the Battlechargers, Mindwipe and Triggerhappy as his troops. Ravage not so much, I just have too much of a hard time not putting him on the same team as Megatron and Soundwave.

Megatron I tend to associate with the other original 'More Than Meets the Eye' Decepticons -- Soundwave, the tapes, Reflector, Skywarp and Thundercracker. Or, if I've been reading the later stories recently, Darkwing, Dreadwind and the Sports Car Patrol.

Galvatron: Cyclonus and Scourge. Occasionally. Again, reading the comics long before seeing much of Season 3 (and bearing in mind he did very little actual leading of the Decepticons even in that) I've always been used to a Galvatron who didn't need troops, and have rarely thought of him as a Decepticon leader.

Even though comic Galvatron had pretty much overwritten my memories of cartoon Galvatron at an early age, I have a hard time picturing him without Cyclonus and Scourge. Part of that is because the Movie made such a big impression on me, where those two were a big part of what made Galvatron so imposing. Also we basically never see them as a part of Scorponok's crew -- discounting 'Krunix', they were only really with him for half an issue.

Scorponok: the 1987 product catalogue.

A lot of his men get 'stolen' in my head, because they had their most memorable moments working for other leaders. Mindwipe and Triggerhappy are with Shockwave, Weirdwolf, Fangry, Squeezeplay and Horri-bull are with Bludgeon and I mostly remember the Terrorcons from the cartoon. I guess that leaves the poor SOB with Skullcruncher, Misfire, Slugslinger, the Horrorcons and the ineffectual first-wave Pretenders?

Thunderwing: a couple of Triggercons, maybe. Always had the Double TMs filed with Snarler as they do something in the Mayhems.

Wouldn't the Mayhems allegedly be working for Thunderwing anyway, by that point?

I dunno, I thought Spinister got a good showing in Matrix Quest and was pretty in-character, since he was the only 'Con with enough brains to realize that Thunderwing was bonkers and that it really wouldn't be all that bad if he got eaten by monsters. Needlenose was kinda a generic cretin though, nothing like he was in the UK books -- always wondered which of those Furman wrote first.

Bludgeon: pretty much everyone else from 1988 onwards, regardless of debut.

Bludgeon's run as leader coincided with when I was reading the comics as they came out, so he has first dibs on anyone who was working for him -- even characters like the Firecons that would make more sense with someone else.

Straxus I never really considered much of a factor

Me either, until the bastards made a toy of him. Not that I'm complaining, mind. I still can't quite believe that they actually did it even though I've owned one for a week now.

I always felt the Marvel comic was missing a solid post-Straxus Cybertron commander - I know Ratbat, Megatron and Thunderwing nominally had the job, but they were always pissing round on Earth or some cowboy planet or whatever. Whenever we see Cybertron in the Marvel comic, the Autobots always have Xaaron and some crack team of bastards like the Wreckers while the Decepticon side are staffed by Flamefeather, Battletrap and some generics, and you wonder why exactly the Autobots don't seem to be doing anything about it.

I always figured that Trypticon was a big part of the reason why the Decepticons were so firmly in charge. He didn't show up often, but IIRC the two times he did, he basically pasted everyone except for the Dinobots (and even then I don't think they did much other than annoy him).

Other than him the 'Cons didn't seem to be much of a threat, that's for sure. Wreckers aside, Thunderwing was so worried by three Pretenders that he actively tried to kill them when he got a team into Autobase (instead of, you know, Xaaron...) so obviously it wouldn't take much to topple the great Decepticon Empire...

Furman didn't seem to be able to keep track of it either, there's that one Earthforce issue the Stunticons and Battlechargers switch sides for no readily apparent reason.

You'd think he'd have taken the time to make up a list or something, wouldn't you? I mean, there were only thirty or forty 'Cons to keep track of, it's not like it's rocket science.

[inflatable dalek]

You'd think he'd have taken the time to make up a list or something, wouldn't you? I mean, there were only thirty or forty 'Cons to keep track of, it's not like it's rocket science.

He probably did it sadistically just on the off chance that someone twenty years later would be deeply confused at trying to sort out their toys so troops are with the right leader. Right now, this very second, he's cackling away at you from the IDW closet.

[Rack 'n Ruin]

Didn't Soundwave also lead (at least some of) the Decepticons for some time in the Marvel universe? I recall him leading an army in some sort of Decepticon civil war in the Arctic... Who was with him?

Oh, just rememebered... he also lead during the Dinobot Hunt era when both Megatron & Shockwave were missing or deactivated. Does that count?

[Auntie Slag]

Yeah I'd say that counts. I was thinking the same thing.

- He was default leader during 'Crisis of Command' and 'Dinobot Hunt', as you say.

- An appointed or self-appointed leader during 'Space Pirates'.

- (I think in the Arctic it was two factions led by Ratbat and Scorponok).

- And he seemed to be honorary person in charge of the Terrorcons during 'Time Wars'. I think its up to the reason to guess his level in the Decepticon heirarchy during 2008. Nowt outright suggests he's Decepticon leader.

He's like robot equivalent of maternity leave cover.

[Shrapnel Clone]

Didn't the Terrorcons hang out with Galvatron? I distinctly remember him screaming their name one time or another.*

Where do you place Predaking, by the way?

*Although I also remember them hanging with the Quints.

[Auntie Slag]

They did a job for Shockwave to kill Megatron during 'Prey', but I think they were just in it for the money. Also Shockwave did a proper snake oil salesman job on them too; about how Megs was past it, shizophrenic, a womaniser etc.

They then worked for Ratbat I think, because I remember Scorponok pulling Tantrum apart in the artic during a disagreement, and me thinking that there really wasn't much in the way of innards to Tantrum at the time.

Maybe that's an 80's example of an augmented body?

[Warcry]

He probably did it sadistically just on the off chance that someone twenty years later would be deeply confused at trying to sort out their toys so troops are with the right leader. Right now, this very second, he's cackling away at you from the IDW closet.

Joke's on him then, I don't have any Battlechargers or Stunticons!

He's like robot equivalent of maternity leave cover.

Yeah, Soundwave seems to be the default "everyone else is dead, who's in charge now?" boss for most of the UK run. I'm pretty sure he inherited command of the Decepticons after Legacy of Unicron, with Shockwave dead and Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge lost in the past. In spite of that I never really think of Soundwave as a leader because it always felt like he knew he was just keeping the seat warm for someone else.

Where do you place Predaking, by the way?

The Predacons obviously belong to Ratbat. Would you embarrass yourself by destroying a mall just to capture a few toy cars unless you were ordered to by your One True Leader?

[inflatable dalek]

Yeah, Soundwave's definitely got the job full time by Space Pirates (and in Time Wars he has a "Other Decepticon leaders have fallen for less" style thought bubble). He got the job by virtue of everyone else who'd want it being dead.

[slartibartfast]

Not sure about that actually. I was thinking that despite having any particular ideals Soundwave was one of few that believed in anything apart from bullying other people around. Like you'd follow him because he was sensible. Sensible evil.

I agree that Galvatron and Straxus don't really count though. Scorponok had his rise-and-fall thing so maybe you could move guys about every week

[Auntie Slag]

Yeah, although Soundwave was this caretaker-leader, I always felt that he was entirely capable; if not potentially better than pretty much all the other Decepticon leaders.

He's smart and tough. Though he doesn't often act tough I think that's what tends to make him more impressive. His words can be as tough as a smack-in-the-marth from Galvatron.

Shockwave was always my top choice Decepticon leader. Quite spooky.

Next would be Soundwave. Megatron had too many occasions of being a nut. However I liked how much he relied on Soundwave, and would basically bitch-slap his entire army without a thought; but would never consider hitting the tape deck.

Saying that though, there's a panel in an issue somewhere where he does just that. But it was a dodgy out-of-character Budiansky moment I'm sure.

[Cliffjumper]

Soundwave's definietely smart enough to just wait until all the idiots are dead before coming leader. Look at the Decepticons in the Marvel run, they spend more time fighting among themselves that fighting the Autobots. By 2008, Megatron, Thunderwing, Starscream and all the other morons are long gone and then he takes the job full-time, with a force made up of long-serving troops he can trus. He da man.

[windsweeper]

In the Marvel comics, Straxus led the Insecticons, Ratbat, the Triple Changers and Dirge, Thrust and Ramjet. Ratbat took over when he died.

Thunderwing led the Double Targetmasters, Triggercons, Firecons, Bludgeon, Stranglehold and Octopunch. I always felt Bludgeon lost something when he became leader. His honour. He seemed far more untrustworthy and bloodthirsty in those last few issues. I prefer him being a mysterious assassin with a sense of honour like we saw in the UK books. There's too many baackstabbing, bloodthirsty Cons already.

My canon always lies rooted in the Marvel comics, so looking at this topic, I find it interesting to muse about modern G1 characters like Acid Storm or RM Wrecker Hook and who would they follow?

Would Acid Storm have been a follower of Straxus like Dirge or was he one of the survivors of the Ark like Thundercracker? Personally, I prefer the latter. One thing I preferred from the cartoon pilot was that there were dozens of Seekers and tapes. I like the idea that the Marvel Decepticons had an army of Seekers as well. We did see background Cons in the early comics. Could Reflector, Acid Storm and Soundblaster been revived aboard the Ark offscreen? I'd like to think so.