Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:48 pm

Skyquake's amazing pop fact:

Dexy's Midnight Runners appeared on Top Of The Pops performing 'Jackie Wilson Says' (black, sang 'Reete Petite' which I remember being re-released with a clay-mation video sometime in the spooky 1980s). The darts player Jocky Wilson (fat, white, throws darts) was shown on blue screen backdrop behind the band. This was for many years thought to be a mistake that no-one noticed, but a recent TOTP2 (I say 'recent' - in the last 10 years) revealed this was deliberate production japery.

Whilst familiar with Roberts' musical choices (which stretch from 1979 - 1990, pop pickers), I would say they're not the sort of stuff you can really throw shapes to, I like Saint Etienne very much - but it'd be 'Filthy' or 'Like A Motorway' which'd get me dancing, over the sort of Bacarach pastiche of 'Only Love Can Break Your Heart'. It's very much indie sounds of the 1980s, when the indie crowd had enormous Echo And The Bunnymen style hair, wore brown overcoats and every fifth gituar band sounded like The Smiths until late in the decade when the likes of The Stone Roses show up to liven things up (Primal Scream's 'Velocity Girl' - a Byrds-esque janglefest - is a world away from anything off the druggy dance-rock opus 'Screamadelica')

And in case your interested, here's some of my top indie disco floorfillers :

The Breeders 'Cannonball'
Verruca Salt 'Seether'
Faith No More 'We Care A Lot'
Janes Addiction 'Been Caught Stealing'
Neds Atomic Dustbin 'Plug Me In'
Carter USM 'R.U.B.B.I.S.H.'
Pop Will Eat Itself 'Def Con One'
Siouxsie And The Banshees 'Peek-A-Boo'
Sisters Of Mercy 'Temple Of Love'
Bodycount 'Bodycount's In Tha House'
Revolting Cocks 'Beers Steers And Queers'
Consolidated ft Yeastie Girls 'You Suck'
Beastie Boys 'Sure Shot'
Prodigy 'Poison'

Bananas
Apples
Milk
Cereal

...sorry that's my shopping list

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:55 pm

You star, 'Like a Motorway' is my favourite St. Etienne song!

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:03 pm

I know! And no one ever plays it anywhere! I think I heard it once on the radio and its a f**King FANTASTIC song.

Let's all have a listen : https://youtu.be/3auZFKDBpKg

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:11 am

Warcry wrote: I don't know if it was lack of chemistry so much as it was just Rosalind Chao being awful. The few times she stopped being wooden, she came off as a complete harpy. The little girl who played her during that episode when she got turned back into a child played the character much better.

Yeah, the idea of a married couple who were neither perfect nor doomed but instead had all the stress and petty squabbles which make up most relationships was a good one, but the petty squabbles were pretty much all they had.

It's no wonder that the DS9 writers shoved her off to the side as much as they could and had him hang out with Bashir all the time instead.

He got on so much better with Bashir than he wife that even the show basically admitted in the end they were gay for one another with that weird "But you like me more" conversation in one of the last episodes.

DS9 definitely wins on that score, though. TNG really hasn't aged well at all. The fact that it was as successful as it was is really a testament to how boring TV was in the 80s than anything else.

I think TNG is great for standalone SF pieces that take an interesting idea and knock about for an hour, and the best of those episodes still stand up exceptionally well, there's no better "Groundhog Day" episode than Cause and Effect for example.

For character development it basically sucks, what you do get is mostly down to the actors just getting more comfortable rather than anyone sitting down and thinking about how the impact of any of the things that happen to them would affect them.

I wonder if that was on purpose, or just a case of "hire whatever vaguely brown actors we can find of the right age"? Because like you say, that still happens a lot. And it doesn't seem like the producers ever decided what ethnicity he was. The closest I can come is a quote from Ronald D. Moore saying that he's either Arabic or Indian, which isn't going to help settle much of anything.

Hats off to whoever wrote that episode though, it did feel generally in the right ballpark of those British Indian style films like East is East, and with a cockney wheel dealer and his lanky straight man embarrassed by their crocked activity I suspect someone had watched a lot of Only Fools and Horses as research for British family dynamics in general as well.

Though if Bashir were a real person that we could ask, I'm sure he'd just say he's an Englishman and be vaguely confused by why we're asking. He seems to be pretty fully assimilated.

Though oddly I don't think they were directly said he was English, if not for the accent (and his Dad's), he could basically be from anywhere. Presumably a result of the character not being conceived of as English, meaning no one thought to throw all the usual references in.

We've derailed how many of them with Star Trek debates now? I feel like this has got to be the third or fourth.

Ah, wait, I'm going to bring it back round now to MTMTE! Watch me go!

He's not in this issue, but to go back to a point people made in the previous issues about Brainstorm and his far too easy reasimilation into the crew: That most of them don't know he betrayed and tried to erase them all from history.

Now, that's a fair enough point to make- though I'm not sure it's been conveyed clearly and it assumes someone like Riptide could keep their mouth shut over it.

But it does remind me of Doctor Bashir, I Presume. As originally written, this terrible secret would have been revealed about Bashir, but then O'Brien would have blackmailed Zimmerman to not report it and the episode would have ended with a "Let us never talk about it again" style moment as so much Trek does.

Alexander Siddig however, felt that suddenly revealing he was playing a genetic super-man who is highly illegal and then never actually being able to mention it would have been an incredibly difficult thing to play, and so asked for it to be changed, with everyone finding out and Bashir only being allowed to stay in Star Fleet thanks to some nifty footwork from Sisko. And, though it took a while (presumably because it hadn't originally been planned), they wound up getting some great material for the character out of it through his changed attitude and how everyone else reacted a little differently to him, even with some bigotry (especially from Worf) in a couple of episodes.

In short, Brainstorm doing these things and the bulk of the characters never knowing and him just acting as normal with everyone who does know within two issues was by far the least interesting thing to have done with the fallout from that story.

Skyquake87 wrote:
I shall now go back and read this thread to pick up on all the sub-text and whatnot that you folk pick up on straight away and I miss and end up just going "...oh yeah!" at, and do a bit of drool out the corner of my mouth.

Yeah, sorry about that. It's mainly Star Trek this month.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:01 pm

That's alright, I enjoy reading all the stuffs you folks say about Star Trek. Along with Star Wars, its a Sci-Fi thing I'm really indifferent to, so its kind of cool to have a sort of grounding by-proxy in it, without having to actually watch the show!

Read this issue again on the train home today, and still really enjoy it. Nautica is one of my favourites now. She's so sweet.

And I do like Getaway. I think because I've known a few people like him in my time, outwardly lovely and charming, but really quite slippery bastards with their own agenda and interests. Probably what makes him so effective in whatever special mission me do he gets sent out on.

I do agree with Warcry to an extent on Skids. I liked how he was portrayed in the old Marvel comics, and this isn't really the same guy and IDW is doing its own thing with him, which is fair enough. But I am weary of super bad ass ninja types in comics, its such a boring trope. However, the mystery around him didn't take decades to be resolved and I like the personality Roberts has given him, so I can get past that.

The Brainstorm thing really needed a decent resolution though, or at least some scenes with the others reacting to him basically being let off and how they now interact with him. Maybe we'll get that down the line.

Also: Can we have some Bluestreak, please?

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:01 am

Whoa, Skyquake! Didn't realise you were a Teletext Digitiser reader! Moc, moc a moc.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:26 am

Swayze.

(Mr Biffo is still writing - look here: http://www.digitiser2000.com/)

The best Saint Etienne songs to dance to? 'Join Our Club'; 'Angel' (the way out west remix); 'Hug My Soul'; 'Stars Above Us'; 'Popular'; 'We're in the City'.

(I'm obsessed. James told me on Twitter that he very nearly did use 'Like a Motorway'. Apparently it's loosely based on an old folk song,'Silver Daggers').

Of course, Siddig has since made a career of casting directors being lazy ****ers, allowing him to corner the market in "So this part is for someone a bit dark skinned but not actually black? Well, they're all the same aren't they, get Sid in for it" roles. Sort of the new Nadim Sawahala (ironically the bloke who played Bashir's Dad- most recently seen playing The Indian One's Dad on Big Bang Theory- seems to be the American equivalent). Indian...Middle Eastern... Mexican... they can play it all.

As a gentleman of similarly ambiguous, dusky ethnicity I agree - I've been Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Morrocan, Italian. My response is normally along the lines of

I'm sure he'd just say he's an Englishman and be vaguely confused by why we're asking.

Also, as a former jobbing actor I can guarantee you that casting directors are that lazy. Several of my friends were cast as Afghan terrorists in some Ross Kemp drama many years back. Of the three only one was actually Afghan - the others were Columbian and Filipino!

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:19 pm

Yeah, I've been reading Digi 2000 since it started up... late last year was it? Didn't he also write Bubblegun for a while?

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:20 pm

It does ring a bell. He also wrote for the bizarre My Parents Are Aliens!

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:54 pm

Wow, that is bizarre. I kind of imagine him as a video game Chris Morris. I hope he'd take that as the massive compliment its intended!

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:09 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:That's alright, I enjoy reading all the stuffs you folks say about Star Trek. Along with Star Wars, its a Sci-Fi thing I'm really indifferent to, so its kind of cool to have a sort of grounding by-proxy in it, without having to actually watch the show!

Sorry, you can't join in unless you've seen Star Trek. Go away and watch all 800ish episodes and then come back. We'll wait for you.

Also: Can we have some Bluestreak, please?

That's part of what's so odd about everyone now loving Earth stuff. Bluestreak was set up as The Guy Who Can Make References To Earth Culture, giving him something to contribute none of the other characters can in terms of actually pointing out what the series is referencing. He's now redundant!

Death's Head wrote: As a gentleman of similarly ambiguous, dusky ethnicity I agree - I've been Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Morrocan, Italian. My response is normally along the lines of

I hope Siddig's response to questions about his ethnicity is "I'm Malcom Mc****ingDowell's nephew biatches!". That's what I'd do if I were him.

I'd probably mention how Lalla Ward used to come round for tea when I was a teenager as well (which to be fair, he seems to like bringing up as well).

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:51 pm

My dad once caught Lalla Ward shoplifting when he used to be a store detective, many years ago. Not quite as tasty an anecdote, really

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:57 am

Death's Head wrote:My dad once caught Lalla Ward shoplifting when he used to be a store detective, many years ago. Not quite as tasty an anecdote, really

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you know the only thing we'll be talking about on Saturday don't you?

Yes, me and Death's Head like to meet up for a drink from time to time. We talk about Terome.

Flimflammery · Post by **Flimflammery** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:35 am

Hi, long-time lurker, first time poster here; just wanted to point out the following (and apologies that my first post is basically pedantry!)

inflatable dalek wrote:His parents were a stock British Indian couple (though in this case, it was a nice cliché as I don't think I've ever seen it done on American TV), which implies various things about his family history.

They weren't a stock British Indian couple. They were played by a man with mixed Israeli-British heritage and an Egyptian woman who's currently a professor of anthropology in Qatar. They are quite clearly meant to be of Arabic stock, despite the fact that Brian George is kind of a go-to guy for casting directors if you want an Indian father. He wasn't, however, putting on an Indian accent in 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume'. The director, David Livingston, has even stated that they were specifically looking for Arab-Americans for the role, and that they had tremendous difficulty finding someone to play Bashir's mother - which is why, in the end, they went with an amateur actor.

I now return you to your regular programming :-)

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:15 am

I don't have the time to reply properly right now (other than to say you're basically right, I've got some more long winded thoughts up my sleeve), but I did want to just quickly say welcome aboard and pedantry is something we all go for here.

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:08 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you know the only thing we'll be talking about on Saturday don't you?

Yes, me and Death's Head like to meet up for a drink from time to time. We talk about Terome.

Whenever Terome's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking...

Flimflammery · Post by **Flimflammery** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:34 am

inflatable dalek wrote:I don't have the time to reply properly right now (other than to say you're basically right, I've got some more long winded thoughts up my sleeve), but I did want to just quickly say welcome aboard and pedantry is something we all go for here.

Thank you for the welcome. Yeah, I get that impression

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:40 am

...And now I can't remember what brilliant point I was going to make.

So basically... you're right.

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:33 pm

That makes Flimflammery the King!

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:38 am

Terome wrote:That makes Flimflammery the King!

It's starting to look like the rest of you weren't even trying.