Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:09 pm

Is Getaway Brett? I mean "Brit"?

Do the DJD only kill Deception's who are flouting Megatron's rules and Autobots who get in the way? They have no reason to kill Neutrals, right? I thought I read this somewhere. If so why kill Censerre? Or was it because he was trying to block their message to the Lost Light and was therefore guilty of helping the Autobots and Megatron?

[Edit] I thought there would be at least one utterly horrible death in this issue from one of the crew. Glad there wasn't, but now I'm thinking who should go. I don't want him to, but is Skids' number up? Almost everything we need to know about him has been revealed. Just a few bits left now that link him to Tarn and Magnus. I feel like its going to have to be Skids to take down Tarn and save Megatron.

[Edit 2] Maybe the 'gun shadow' across Nightbeat's face is Getaways?

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:29 pm

Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere but Nightbeat is pointing to his head because that's where he got blapped (it's a proper word) in the head all the way back in Spotlight: Hardhead.

As for the DJD, who knows? They've proven that they only go after targets on 'The List' and as 'The List' consisted solely of Megatron after #39, maybe they're just killing people who Megs just happened to have come into contact with. What does slightly unnerve me is Ravage and Megatron's chat when they first come back to Necrobotland. Ravage specifically says "what's done is done". But what is done? Did they both do something when they were last there, or is Ravage simply saying that coming there in the first place and the revelation of Megatron's memorial is what's done? I mean, it's probably the latter but still

So, as for who's going to bite it: Skids, Swerve & Brainstorm have all served their purpose storywise and Skids is definitely becoming a storyline crutch/magic escape rope in the same way that I can imagine SuperDuperTailgate will do in the future. Cyclonus' arc *should* have finished in #47 but that didn't happen. In fact, a good old fashioned massacre of who's with Rodimus will finally let some other characters hopefully have a chance to shine, because if they all survive and become the sole characters in the book going forward I'm probably going to end up dropping it

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:26 am

Patapsco wrote:
So, as for who's going to bite it: Skids, Swerve & Brainstorm have all served their purpose storywise and Skids is definitely becoming a storyline crutch/magic escape rope in the same way that I can imagine SuperDuperTailgate will do in the future. Cyclonus' arc *should* have finished in #47 but that didn't happen. In fact, a good old fashioned massacre of who's with Rodimus will finally let some other characters hopefully have a chance to shine, because if they all survive and become the sole characters in the book going forward I'm probably going to end up dropping it

This again? So after 50+ issues (nearly 5 years) of the book being about a core group of characters you want to massacre all those characters because... other characters we don't know need their spot in the sun?

We'll obviously get a few deaths and some fresh faces coming in but there seems to be a view that once a characters back story is explored, well **** it, that's him done. We've had 50 issues of new back story but sure, lets bung that out so that Bluestreak can be the focus. Why? Because Bluestreak! It's like killing off the entire bridge crew from TNG at the end of season 3 just so we could focus on ensign terry - we never get to hear about him!

Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach.

God, that was a bit ranty for early morning. Apologies and all that.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:55 am

Only read the preview so far(yeah, I spoilered myself. Ehh, my curiousity tends to get the better of me), and I figured Nightbeat's comment was more Roberts' commentary on the Titan Returns version of Nightbeat.

Ye gods, I wish I hadn't looked that up......

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:51 pm

Red Dave Prime wrote:This again? So after 50+ issues (nearly 5 years) of the book being about a core group of characters you want to massacre all those characters because... other characters we don't know need their spot in the sun?

We'll obviously get a few deaths and some fresh faces coming in but there seems to be a view that once a characters back story is explored, well **** it, that's him done. We've had 50 issues of new back story but sure, lets bung that out so that Bluestreak can be the focus. Why? Because Bluestreak! It's like killing off the entire bridge crew from TNG at the end of season 3 just so we could focus on ensign terry - we never get to hear about him!

Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach.

God, that was a bit ranty for early morning. Apologies and all that.

Have you seen The Wire? Because that somehow managed to spread the storytelling load across a lot more than 17 principle characters and the narrative never suffered. You can shuffle characters into the background and then bring them back when appropriate but if it's the same core (Rodimus, Tailgate, Chromedome, Rewind, Skids, Swerve...) it gets bloody repetitive, that's all I'm railing against.

issue 34 - focuses on Bluestreak, Mainframe, Trailcutter and First Aid. Who appears at the end? Rung! The last two part Scavengers arc? All scavengers until... Rung appears! Even the disappearing Lost Light story had an alt Rewind and Skids show up after doing some superb stuff with Riptide, Nautica, Nightbeat et al. Roberts can do it, so why not clear out some characters and let some others shine?

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:10 pm

The good thing about Skids is he's not the ultimate get out clause. It was Rodimus who stopped the Sparkeater, and from what was shown Skids didn't make any difference to Overlord's rampage.

I'd like him to survive the next five issues if it subverts my way of thinking that when all has been revealed about a character there's nothing left to do but waste them. It would be cool to see how he develops from this point. He's totally at odds now with his good buddy Getaway, and they'd been like Bond and Alec Trevelyan. He's seen the horrible act that his other buddies the Duobots carried out on behalf of Skids' boss Prowl. He's got no friends left other than those on The Lost Light.

But it still seems like he's got to have one almighty showdown with Tarn, who could destroy him by blabbing about the smelting pool before Skids is ready, causing him to freeze up like "Till all are one" did to Overlord. Maybe Megatron has to save Skids, which would be nice after the latter put Megatron firmly in his place during Slaughterhouse.

Then once its over they can get their stash from the Re-up, kick Ziggy in the pants and save Frankie Sobotka.

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:13 pm

Another thing to bear in mind: according to Roberts, there are 450 odd Decepticons under Tarn/Deathsaurus' command, vs 17 Autobots half of whom can't fight. If all or most of them some how get out of this, it would be nothing short of a miracle.

And who's gonna give a f*** when it ain't their turn to give a f***?

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:29 pm

How many can Tailgate take out before he gets nailed by the sheer amount of guns and heavy hitters that'll be bearing down on him the moment they clock he's Super Nintendo-gate?

The DJD killed Black Shadow. Is it possible that Tailgate is now tougher than Black Shadow? At the moment he's standing in front of Cyclonus looking scared out of his wits.

All I can think of is Nightbeat is going to activate something, a shield or a mega-gardener or something. Then there'll be a significance about the planet being hollow. The plants must play a part. I think the execution at the beginning has got nothing to do with Tarn and the others.

Rodimus can't die because happy clappy Drift (thanks Whirl) insists that Rodimus is integral to the Knights mission.I'd like to see him die, but he's the reason the Lost Light is both lousy and interesting.

- 'Whose up for a fight"?
- Lets jump through that portal and see what happens.
- Off Meteor surfing so everyone else had to save themselves.

Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but now... What is he, a sleepy house cat?

Unicron · Post by **Unicron** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:32 pm

Auntie Slag wrote:Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but what happened after that?

They're on their way back from that still. It's a long trip. Probably with a stopover at the Cosmic Carnival along the way

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Auntie Slag wrote:How many can Tailgate take out before he gets nailed by the sheer amount of guns and heavy hitters that'll be bearing down on him the moment they clock he's Super Nintendo-gate?

The DJD killed Black Shadow. Is it possible that Tailgate is now tougher than Black Shadow? At the moment he's standing in front of Cyclonus looking scared out of his wits.

All I can think of is Nightbeat is going to activate something, a shield or a mega-gardener or something. Then there'll be a significance about the planet being hollow. The plants must play a part. I think the execution at the beginning has got nothing to do with Tarn and the others.

Rodimus can't die because happy clappy Drift (thanks Whirl) insists that Rodimus is integral to the Knights mission.I'd like to see him die, but he's the reason the Lost Light is both lousy and interesting.

- 'Whose up for a fight"?
- Lets jump through that portal and see what happens.
- Off Meteor surfing so everyone else had to save themselves.

Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but now... What is he, a sleepy house cat?

the other board I frequent loathe the DJD because their abilities are so inconsistent. They whomped Black Shadow pretty easily, but struggled against the Scavengers and Grimlock (well, for the first thirty seconds), and blew through the Alt Lost Light like a particularly hot knife through room temperature butter. They're just too goddamn powerful how do you defeat them without it sounding and reading like a giant cop out? It's going to take some literary gymnastics and hopefully no "deus ex Skids" to get out of it

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Was Deathsaurus Drifts boss back when Drift was Deadlock, or have I got that wrong? Maybe this'll mark his return. He'd want to go meet a weird hippy like the Necrobot (only no-one thought he was real for millions of years, now everyones on his doorstep).

Or perhaps (I'm really reaching now) something involving Terminus or Tusk? Would the revelation that Terminus is still alive re-ignite Megatrons love of The Motorcycle Diaries, fire missiles at North America and hurt a kitten?

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:48 pm

Patapsco wrote:... but struggled against the Scavengers and Grimlock (well, for the first thirty seconds)

Do you think that's fair, though? I thought they were having fun with the Scavengers. They were more or less kicking them about, Ruckus was lucky for a moment with his Battletech suit but another moment or two and they'd have all been pate.

We came in at the very end of the Black Shadow killing. He could've been giving them a fair fight for a long time for all we know. Or maybe Megatron gave Tarn the killswitch code to use when necessary on an errant Phase Sixer? Its been ages since I read Devastation, where Starscream got the code to disable Sixshot. I forget how he got it. Maybe Megatron trusted Tarn enough?

All chronic speculation on my part. But it could explain the seeming inconsistency in power levels.

Post by **Warcry** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Red Dave Prime wrote:Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach

I can't speak for anyone else, but because of the 80s show and comics I'm used to TF fiction having a constantly-shifting cast with lots of turnover. It's actually a bit weird for me to see a main cast stick together with so little change for such a long time the way the MTMTE crew has.

Also, what little change we've seen has consisted of new characters joining in, with very few characters leaving. I mean, with Rewind back the only major character who's left and stayed gone is Drift, and I suspect he'll be back sooner than later with Ratchet. Fort Max and Red Alert "left" only to keep showing up anyway. Pipes died but nobody cares about Pipes. Trailbreaker died but he was barely in the book beforehand, so his death doesn't really open up page space. I guess First Aid might count as a major departure if the Protectobots never come back?

But anyway, we've had very few departures. And at the same time we've had Getaway, Megatron, Ravage, Ten, Nightbeat, Nautica, Riptide, Bluestreak, Crosscut, Mainframe, Velocity, Thunderclash and Atomizer all either joining the crew or moving up from background fodder to more important supporting roles. Maybe a few others, too. Plus Deathsaurus, more of the DJD and Scavengers, etc., etc.

For me at least the book has gotten way too crowded. Early MTMTE had a dozen or so main characters and maybe half as many secondaries and focused on them fairly well. But the cast has exploded now to probably three times that, now, and there's just not enough room for everyone. And that means that some people need to go. Whether that means a big ol' massacre or some crew just deciding to leave and staying gone, I'm not fussed. But for me, when a book has forty "main characters" it really has none, and it's hard to care about anyone.

I actually wouldn't mind if the cast got whittled down to the dozen and a half people marooned with Megatron, as long as it meant more focus for some of the secondaries in the group like Ravage or Nautica or Velocity who haven't gotten to do much since they joined the crew. I also wouldn't mind if half of them died/got written out some other way and we wound up with Bluestreak, Crosscut, Thunderclash or whoever else joining the main cast. As long as the cast gets pared down to a more manageable level somehow I think the book will get back on the right track.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:28 pm

I have read this three times and am currently dumbstruck by it. I really liked it, but its made me feel sad. That's the best I can manage at the moment.

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:40 pm

Few things:

The 450 Decepticons vs the 17 lost light - given that this is based on zulu, that number lines up well with 150 vs 3,000. Also, Its hardly going to be a straight up fight. Goes without saying that shenanigans will be involved. If battles were always determined by the stronger, history wouldn't be so colourful.

The overpowered DJD - this is a bit yes and no. As Auntie Slag has pointed out, Black Shadow was more likely the victim of a Killswitch protocol, and the scavengers was a case of the DJD not taking their target seriously. But we also know that when presented with a stronger target they were tooling up on Nuke recently and it was being hyped up on Nuke that allowed them to take out the Lost Light - an alternate lost light that didn't have Rodimus, Fort Max and a few others. We don't know exactly what state this Lost light was in, but we do know that Brainstorm let them sneak in so we don't know how much of the ship or crew were damaged before realising they were even under attack. Also, I do think part of the complaint about power levels is more because of some of the readership bigging them up themselves. Deathsaurus looked to be able to go head to head with Tarn but I doubt anyones complaining about him being too powerful.

Main Cast vs New Cast OK, main thing. I'm not for one second saying that you cant have a large rotating cast - I'm just saying that's not MTMTE. I'd understand if for the first 15 issues or so we had that type of approach but we didn't so to expect it after 50 (+annual and spotlights) is an unfair criticism of the book. That's all I'm getting at. It would be like complaining that the wire is only set in Baltimore when there are loads of other cities with drugs.

While some of you see it as Roberts over-milking his characters (and that's fine), I see it more like Slag has explained with his Skids point - this character not only had a back story coming in, we now have 50 issues of history to play off. Cyclonus would have had a good send off in issue 47 but I also think it will be interesting to see if he can still love Tailgate now that Tailgate doesn't need his protection or how he reacts to the Knights if they find them - how would a patriot like Cyclonus feel if the Knights didn't live up to his expectations. Or.. what if he is the only guy Super Tailgate cant save through all of this?

I would agree with Warcry that the cast has gotten too large and a culling of 5-10 of the main here would help (plus, you get the whole fall out for the survivors - what if this time its Domey who dies... or what if rewind snuffs it again!) but I just hate the notion of "we need to get rid of Magnus so we can see whats happening with Bluestreak". Some of the readership do enjoy these established characters and I think MTMTE would be less if we had that kind of rotating policy. Now I accept that's my own view, but my gripe with that complaint is that the comic by now has established its set-up. If that's an issue you have, maybe its not the comic for you. Chances are Rodimus and several of team roddy will still be here come issue 55 and onwards

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:26 pm

A lot of interesting points being brought up.

I'll say this again; the set up for the finale is similar to "Remain in Light". Wasn't a handful of 10ish bots up against an army of Legislators and pseudo 'cons and Star Saber? It doesn't have to be an all out fight on an open field guys---the DJD could imprison the crew and have a "chat" with Megatron.

On the overpowered DJD---as it's been pointed out, they are usually on the enhancing energon, which is pretty much gone. If Sky Shadow is anything like Overlord and Sixshot, he has a de-activation code, which Megatron's inner elite are probably privy to, including Tarn. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarn has such a code too, and Megatron uses it against him.

On the main cast's popularity----is this a serious question? This is like asking why are Captain America and Iron Man on the forefront of the Avengers movies. "Team Rodimus" is more or less the main cast of the book; of course people are going to root for them!

The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.

I believe that MTMTE has done an OK job in shuffling people around, especially when you stop in to consider that Megatron was more or less a "forced" element during and after Dark Cybertron, yet still feels organic to the story.

I also don't see why bots need to "die to make room for others" or why people feel certain characters have outlived their purpose. If we go at it this way, Magnus should have stayed dead after issues 18-19 and Ratchet should never have made it past issue 20 when he told First Aid he'll resign.

At the moment there's too many bots with a history in one room; Tarn, Megatron, Skids and Brainstorm are all too connected, especially once Brainstorm catches on to the fact that Tarn is responsible for Quark's death. If Tarn is indeed Roller, he also shares a lot of history with Chromedome, Whirl and heck, even Rodimus and Cyclonus.

That's a lot of ifs, buts and hurt pride and comradeship.

Let's see where this all gets us before we stomp in on death and destruction.

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:39 pm

Yeah, I enjoy the large cast. Its part of what keeps MTMTE so interesting and these threads so long! Yes, I would love to have Hound or Huffer or Doublecross be main players, but not at the expense of the main guys who are already established. I don’t want any of the main cast to die because there’s so much invested in them (though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).

Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:45 pm

Knightdramon wrote: The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.
.

I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)

Edit:just read slags post - think characters like swerve can be pulled back alright - they rarely are the main plot though. Think they are the C squad to the A & B squad. At the moment I'm thinking:

A's - Rodimus, Magnus, Megs, Rung, Tailgate, Whirl (not so much in plot but Roberts loves this guy too much to not use him), Skids

B's - Nautica, Nightbeat, Cyclonus, Chromedome, Brianstorm, Ravage,

C's - Swerve, Riptide, Ten, Velocity

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:46 pm

Auntie Slag wrote: (though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).

Oh, I was with you until you said this, not even kidding they're my second and third favourite characters in the book (after Megatron)

Auntie Slag wrote:Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!

Yeah, I suppose I'm suffering from the same thing, but I'm just really, really, REALLY burned out on certain characters and would just like them to go away or have less prominent roles. Imagine a two-parter where Thunderclash leads an away team with Huffer, Crosscut, Hound & Crossblades, or Magnus taking Jackpot, Grotusque, Slamdance and Hoist on a security training course? That's what I'm talking about. Small stories, with more characters. And if characters get offed, let their deaths have some meaning

Patapsco · Post by **Patapsco** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:49 pm

Red Dave Prime wrote:I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)

The thing about The Wire is they threw most of the drug dealers to the kerb for season 2, then switched the principle drug players in season 3 from Barksdale to Stanfield. There were a lot of people to keep track of, and only the police in the show kept moderately constant. And then there's John Munch's cameo in season 5 which may have destroyed the space time continuum