Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

Comics, cartoons, movies and fan stuff.
User avatar
Red Dave Prime
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Post by Red Dave Prime » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:50 am

A second and third read isnt helping this issue. That rushed feeling is bang on the money. I really feel parts of this issue are great but the way we get there stretches things a bit too much.

Too many things happen here to facilitate end results. There is no reason Cyclonus goes for his sword. He knows that there is something going on with Getaway and Tailgate so at the very least he can explain himself.

The clock thing with whirl is nice but its the first time we see it and how does he actually do all the clock stuff after collapsing anyway.

Now that you all point it out, Tailgate has gotten dumb. And he didnt have to. The way he has been potrayed (big headed upstart) means that Getaway could have just played to his ego.

Sigh... reminds me a bit too much of Megatrons masterplan in the first season of RID.

User avatar
Knightdramon
Protoform
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:15 pm
Location: York, UK

Post by Knightdramon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:25 am

I think the basis on using Tailgate as the pawn makes sense from a plethora of ways in this instance.

A) We know many Autobots on the crew are scared of Megatron because of the war or personally witnessing him in action
B) We know the other half Autobots, especially the upper command on the ship, "respect" Prime's decision and work with Megatron as part of the ranks. Magnus and Perceptor come as good examples of this.

Tailgate is neither of these. He literally has never witnessed Megatron in action, and too immature or low in the ranks to come into official status contact with him.

Hence he wouldn't be paralysed by fear or protest against the "plan" or risk blowing any cover. Plus he's very easy to manipulate.

I don't think the security team is too trigger-happy in this instance. Just in S1, the crew has had at least 3 instances in which the security team failed to respond/was otherwise engaged [Fort Max, Overlord, Tyrest takeover]...if anything, prejudice against Cyclonus excluded, this is the first time they are actually on time and active. :swirly:
Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.

User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 23958
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:55 pm

Warcry wrote:I never thought I'd say this about something that Roberts penned, but I feel dumber for having read this. It felt like it should have had Shane McCarthy's name on the cover.
Now that last bit is just trying to troll me!

I didn't see anything setting it up either, and it really left me scratching my head. I was also thrown a bit because it didn't seem like it worked the way it was described back in Remain in Light. It seemed like the nudge guns needed to be programmed ahead of time to carry out the exact change that the shooter wanted it to. So unless we're meant to believe Getaway anticipated needing to wipe Whirl's mind in exactly this way at exactly this time, it comes off as a really big "holy shit I need a way to keep Whirl from blowing the whistle!" handwave.
Thinking on it... I wonder if it's not so much a case the gun has a lack of set up, but that the gun itself is set up for something? As the caption informs us, Tyrest took it off Getaway, and Tyrest is both still out there and can teleport about the place. And wasn't it Slag's theory that Getaway had been turned by Tyrest during captivity? An evil team up perhaps?

I'm assuming the gun had just been set to wipe any of Whirl's conspiracy related memories rather than specific details.
Beyond that, I'm not sure why "trick Megatron into doing something so someone else will kill him for you, maybe," is the go-to plan here. Just plant a bomb in Megs' quarters and put a round through his brain module after he's been disabled. I mean hell, Atomizer is an assassin. He should know how to kill someone without over-complicating it.
Presumably they just want to be completely removed from any blame or fallout themselves, can you imagine how Optimus would react if it had been pulled off?
And then on top of it all, if you really do need to resort to a zany scheme, Tailgate is quite possibly the worst patsy you could have chosen. Firstly because he's dumb as shit (is it just me, or has he actually gotten dumber as time went on just to make this plot more plausible?) and secondly because, as we saw, Cyclonus will ruin everything.
Tailgate has always been gulible/far to eager to act (remember his pulling a gun on Megatron before? And Cyclonus' reaction to that?). He has gotten stupider, but that's mainly down to Getaway's constant undermining of him and getting him very, very drunk before encouraging him to act. He's been twisted into this position from almost the moment Whirl's first attempt failed (which is why I'm surprised to see people saying it felt it came from nowhere, I was more expecting folks to complain it had been dragged out too long! We've known Getaway has been manipulating Tailgate, and we've known people have been working with Whirl to provoke Megatron into doing something that will let them kill him. It's just connecting those two things that happens here).

It's worth noting Cyclonus has also had a drink he's not used to and which he took to aid out of character behaviour, so he's not in the best frame of mind at the end either. Plus he's got no real idea what's going on when he gets to room 113 either.

Does anyone else feel like Trailbreaker trying to muck about with Megatron's fuel whilst off his head was foreshadowing of this?
But I think the weird feeling here comes down to Roberts trying really hard to be "topical". Unfortunately the "triggerhappy cops gun down a misunderstood minority" analogy doesn't really play considering Cyclonus just put a sword through the chest of the ship's captain. I mean, you're not going to see a Black Lives Matter protest erupt if the cops gun down a guy who just assassinated Obama...
I think that was more the last two parter, here the "There are people on the Lost Light really hate Cyclonus" thing has been set up far enough in advance (presumably for this moment) for it not to feel topical, it just doesn't really make any sense in relation to their attitude with Megatron!

One worry I do have is that after Brainstorm got rehabilitated despite attempting to destroy established history, Getaway will wind up being forgiven and back with the team as well.
TRANSFORMATION: ALL GOOD THINGS
END OF AN ERA IN MY LOOK AT AOE 5!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!

User avatar
Warcry
Posts: 13644
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 4:10 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by Warcry » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:31 pm

Denyer wrote:And I wouldn't have been upset to see Tailgate offed. In an equation between deceitful idiot child and ancient pragmatist the potential for character writing is very heavily weighed to the latter.
Agreed. Between the two, Cyclonus is by far the more interesting character.
Denyer wrote:I don't really buy Whirl as that much of a moral void at this point.
I think the script seems to go back and forth on this point, sometimes he's actually an utterly amoral psycho and other times he comes off a relatively normal (if broken) person trying really hard to be that amoral psycho because it makes life less painful.
Unicron wrote:Maybe I'm overthinking it but I'm not sure Rodimus could just boot Atomizer, at least without consequence. The minute Rodders tells him to leave, that's when news of the list comes out. Yeah, it was fake, but Rodimus didn't know that. He willingly took it and read it when he thought it was real, after saying that even looking at it could end him.
I dunno, I think he could probably explain it away. I mean, he is an authority figure and Atomizer was admitting a crime to him. He couldn't just ignore that, right? :glance:

"Hey Magnus, Atomizer is up to no good. He claimed to have a copy of the voting records from the captaincy vote and wanted me to use it to kick people off the ship! Obvs I seized it as evidence. I investigated and it turned out to be false, but isn't that still illegal?"

And then Atomizer gets locked up, probably before Rodimus has finished his second sentence.
Red Dave Prime wrote:Too many things happen here to facilitate end results. There is no reason Cyclonus goes for his sword. He knows that there is something going on with Getaway and Tailgate so at the very least he can explain himself.
There's also no reason why he doesn't just phone Megatron (or Tailgate if he suspects his involvement) and warn them that something nefarious is afoot.
Red Dave Prime wrote:Now that you all point it out, Tailgate has gotten dumb. And he didnt have to. The way he has been potrayed (big headed upstart) means that Getaway could have just played to his ego.
Agreed. The whole silly, "you need to brainwash Megatron if you want to marry me!" sales pitch was over the top. The sort of ego-boosting and alienation from Cyclonus that Getaway had been buttering him up with would have led a bit more naturally to a "someone has to do this, Tailgate, and you're the only one brave and cool enough to pull it off!" angle.

If the previous scenes between them had had the same emotional depth as the one in this issue, then sure, this sort of manipulation would have made sense. But in the previous Getaway/Tailgate scenes it felt like it was being played out more like a bad-influence teenage friend or boyfriend than ZOMGLOVE4EVAR. I'm not saying it couldn't have gotten there, but there was a big leap between the two that we didn't actually see play out.
inflatable dalek wrote:Now that last bit is just trying to troll me!
Yes.
inflatable dalek wrote:Thinking on it... I wonder if it's not so much a case the gun has a lack of set up, but that the gun itself is set up for something? As the caption informs us, Tyrest took it off Getaway, and Tyrest is both still out there and can teleport about the place. And wasn't it Slag's theory that Getaway had been turned by Tyrest during captivity? An evil team up perhaps?
Good point! I think I'd pondered the Getaway/Tyrest connection before, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was something there. But I hadn't made the connection between that and the gun. I'd just assumed that Red Alert and co. found it in a stash on Luna 1 and shipped it to Getaway on the LL.
inflatable dalek wrote:I'm assuming the gun had just been set to wipe any of Whirl's conspiracy related memories rather than specific details.
My thought was that you had to be a whole lot more precise than that. Otherwise you're going to wipe out a whole swath of Whirl's memories and he's going to wake up and be completely lost like Skids was. Which would not only be highly suspicious, but would point directly back at the only guys on the ship known to use memory-wipe guns in the past, and would in turn probably lead to Whirl trying to murder Getaway. Not the best outcome, that.

But to erase just the incriminating memories and absolutely nothing else would require you to be able to single out just those memories and nothing else. Which would have to mean that Getaway's attack was premeditated, right? Except he didn't know he was going to do it until he did it. Unless he's so super-paranoid that he always keeps the gun updated and ready to fire just in case, not just for Whirl but also Atomizer and anyone else in on their conspiracy.
inflatable dalek wrote:Presumably they just want to be completely removed from any blame or fallout themselves, can you imagine how Optimus would react if it had been pulled off?
An obligatory show of disappointment set in place to mask a bigger feeling of relief than he'd ever thought possible? :)
inflatable dalek wrote:It's worth noting Cyclonus has also had a drink he's not used to and which he took to aid out of character behaviour, so he's not in the best frame of mind at the end either.
I dunno, "they were drunk!" just seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. Like the author is saying "No, see, that scene wasn't out of character at all! They're just acting that way because of the booze!" Especially when the characters involved are robots who can apparently turn their intoxication on and off like a light switch.
inflatable dalek wrote:One worry I do have is that after Brainstorm got rehabilitated despite attempting to destroy established history, Getaway will wind up being forgiven and back with the team as well.
I'm not sure what's worse. That, or the thought that they'll arbitrarily punish him severely for it even though there's a dozen people aboard who've done worse. Hopefully he'll have the decency to die so that we can avoid both scenarios.

User avatar
Patapsco
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:24 pm
Contact:

Post by Patapsco » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:39 pm

My own theory: Megatron uses Tailgate trying to wipe his memories and the overreaction of the security crew (I don't think they did, personally) to force Rodimus into exile

User avatar
KingMob
Protoform
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:41 pm

Post by KingMob » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:08 am

Everyone is on the money in their general assessments, I think, good reading as usual. I just wanted to post to throw in a couple of (maybe) additions to points.

Whirl started setting the clocks the minute he turned his back on the others (ooh, how literal), ie he knew he was running the risk of being incapacitated.

Atomizer in turn pulls the nudge gun out as soon as Whirl turns his back, the fact that he's the one that shoots Whirl and has it ready before Whirl's even done talking indicates he and Getaway had indeed pre-planned the possible need to blank Whirl and were more than up for it, so presumably the charge had been pre-programmed to the specific needs discussed.

Cyclonus just sprinting for Megatron's room without raising an alarm is a character fault I can also overlook; people don't always behave logically, and I can buy him not thinking to call for help. He's a loner after all.

The LL security team have been shown ready to go guns blazing before - I think it was Aquafend who wanted to bust into Cyclonus + Tailgate's room ASAP, but Drift was all like 'I need to achieve harmony with the corridor strip lighting first mate' - and every time we see them there's more of them and they're increasingly tooled up; I can buy that the various incidents on board are making them more jumpy and willing to pull the trigger at provocation, and that the 'people hate Cyclonus' thing still has gas in the tank.

Yeah, they shot the crap out of Cyclonus, but he did go for his weapon after being told to cease and desist. There was no clear character or plot reason for Cyclonus to suicide by cop (it's Whirl that has the deathwish, Cyc wants to live), so what was he gonna do, take on five guys with guns levelled with his sword from thirty feet away just so Tailgate could get into the shuttle bay? Wishful thinking there, Cyclonus. Don't really get that the ancient pragmatist, as so wonderfully described, would go for that as lovely as the actual next events were portrayed. Then again, we are all fools for love.

User avatar
Unicron
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 5:00 am

Post by Unicron » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:13 pm

KingMob wrote:Atomizer in turn pulls the nudge gun out as soon as Whirl turns his back, the fact that he's the one that shoots Whirl and has it ready before Whirl's even done talking indicates he and Getaway had indeed pre-planned the possible need to blank Whirl and were more than up for it, so presumably the charge had been pre-programmed to the specific needs discussed.
It's quite possible we're overthinking how specific the nudge gun settings are. I'm thinking the blank bullet may simply be of the 'forget the details of your current mission and who sent you' nature, rather than 'forget about crazy anti-Megatron plans and your co-conspirators Getaway and Atomizer'.

If it were the latter, that means Prowl sent agents into the field with a device that if captured basically screams 'Prowl sent me to do some nasty stuff'. That doesn't sound like the Prowl we know and love, does it?

User avatar
Summerhayes
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Nagano, Japan

Post by Summerhayes » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:08 pm

Rack 'n Ruin wrote:Avoided the content of your post as I don't want to be spoiled. Presumably, however, you will be PM'ing Summerhayes with it? :devil:
Cheers mate!
Have read it now though, and am making my way through this thread. For the record, I thought the issue was a banger.
I like bears.

User avatar
Summerhayes
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Nagano, Japan

Post by Summerhayes » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:42 pm

Right, I've read through this thread, I've re-read the book and I've got a bone or two to pick with all you haters and doubters!

Small thing: Cyclonus says " I haven't drunk this in years", referring specifically to the glass of Old Corroder Swerve pours for him. This stuff could get him unbelievably wrecked even if he has been seen drinking in earlier issues.
Warcry wrote:Agreed. Between the two, Cyclonus is by far the more interesting character.
I'd agree that Cyclonus was a very interesting character, but I think this would make an appropriate and satisfying end to his story. Tailgate, on the other hand, has loads of room to grow. He's like classic Marvel Bumblebee in a comic that actually allows for movement.
KingMob wrote:The LL security team . . . every time we see them there's more of them and they're increasingly tooled up; I can buy that the various incidents on board are making them more jumpy and willing to pull the trigger at provocation, and that the 'people hate Cyclonus' thing still has gas in the tank.
I think this is absolutely on the money.

The big issue I want to comment on, and which I think I'm extremely well qualified to discuss, is the drunkenness. Neither Cyclonus or Tailgate acted "out of character"; Cyclonus was trying to save TG, and 'Gatesy Babes was thinking he'd be impressing his friends and stopping Megatron be evil.

The only difference was that they both acted much stupider and much more rashly than they normally would. As someone who gets drunk on the regular, never mind being a newborn or a geriatric samurai, I can empathise with this. Drunk Luke will pick a fight with five guys twice his size if they threaten a girl he likes, will phoenix splash his friend who's lying in a bush and give himself a big scar on his arm or will use a big breadknife to clean up egg then throw it into the sink, miss, and have it bounce bag and nearly kill him. Hypothetically speaking, of course, he might even take his shirt off and ride the bonnet of his friend's car like a flying carpet then get stopped by the police.

I fully believe everything these two did, and also the overreaction of law enforcement officers towards someone arbitrarily different from them.
I like bears.

User avatar
Denyer
Posts: 32326
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2000 4:00 am
Custom Title: Shooty Dog Thing
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by Denyer » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:41 pm

I might be reaching, but Cyc probably has a bit on you in age and sense.

He also doesn't look particularly dead. If he is, that came off about as well as the door thing with Overlord.

User avatar
Summerhayes
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Nagano, Japan

Post by Summerhayes » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:49 pm

Denyer wrote:I might be reaching, but Cyc probably has a bit on you in age and sense.
Maybe, but I have him beat in drinking experience and knowing I definitely don't stand a chance in certain fights.
I like bears.

User avatar
Auntie Slag
Posts: 4818
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 4:00 am
Custom Title: Satisfaction guaranteed!
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by Auntie Slag » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:13 pm

Wow, I think I love Whirl even more now. If only they could make a plush toy of him for Christmas, full of pointy edges that injures kids because, you know he is Whirl after all.

Felt so sorry for him seeing his empty room, though.

What really interested me was the final page where Tailgate seemingly erupts in light. I think this has something to do with his original panic attacks that featured in the first issue of MTMTE... that bit where Chromedome lifts him out of the hole on the Mitteous plateau, Tailgate catches sight of Whirl unconscious on the floor and panics, his eyes flaring and he repeats "He's dead, he's dead, he's dead I killed him".

I always felt like that statement was referring to something other than what Tailgate was seeing in front of him. With Cyclonus seemingly dead, this may have triggered Tailgate's ultimate panic.

I'd say there's more than meets the eye with Tailgate. And I'm not convinced its solely down to the great sword saving his life-thing. I think maybe that is something that has amplified his er... panic energy!

Fantastic job on the art and colouring too. I didn't clock right away that it wasn't Milne on duty, and the colouring; that page where Cyclonus is holding Tailgate close whilst they're getting shot to hell, that was gorgeous. Felt desperate and stark, like a late scene in Tron where it appears the bad guys are going to win.
Image

"It's not until you're an adult you appreciate how awesome a dog is. Your dreams start dying, somebody cheats on you, bankers f*** up your pension. Then you come home and that dog's looking at you and he's like, 'Dude, you're awesome!'” - Bill Burr

“I re-invented my image so many times that I'm in denial that I was originally an overweight Korean woman.” - David Bowie

User avatar
Auntie Slag
Posts: 4818
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 4:00 am
Custom Title: Satisfaction guaranteed!
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by Auntie Slag » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:18 pm

Also, I think Cyclonus reached for his sword on purpose. He had no intention of using it on the crew, it was to get himself shot to bits and provoke Tailgate's strange reaction.

User avatar
Summerhayes
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Nagano, Japan

Post by Summerhayes » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:22 pm

Tailgate also had weird eyes when he disarmed the bomb. That's my contribution, I'm not going to pretend I have a useful idea where any of this is going...
I like bears.

User avatar
Auntie Slag
Posts: 4818
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 4:00 am
Custom Title: Satisfaction guaranteed!
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by Auntie Slag » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:28 pm

I think because there's not enough to go on re: Tailgate's panicking. But that moment in Issue 1 has always intrigued me, as well as his comment to Cyclonus about Rivets field, being born two weeks before Ark 1 took off.

Now that's a luxury of time compared to poor Getaway, who was airdropped into battle before his eyes had even opened. So I'm confused why Cyclonus was so shocked at Tailgate's origin comment. Maybe because Tailgate was forged and not a knockoff/MTO like Getaway.

Perhaps there's something significant that a 'born' Transformer needs more time to get up to speed, because everything isn't drilled into his head like an MTO.

Or maybe because Cyclonus knows about an incredibly interesting event surrounding Rivet's Field at that time?

I'm guessing its something weird and mystical, because Ratchet was fixing Tailgate in issue one and found nothing of interest, commenting that Tailgate was so old that his insides were "All pulleys, levers and pendulums".

User avatar
Summerhayes
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: Nagano, Japan

Post by Summerhayes » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:53 pm

I always read it just as everyone assuming Tailgate had lead a long and interesting life but actually he was dying of old age despite being very young.
I like bears.

User avatar
Auntie Slag
Posts: 4818
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 4:00 am
Custom Title: Satisfaction guaranteed!
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by Auntie Slag » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:01 pm

I'm sure you're spot on with that comment. I'm just always trying to find a reason for stuff. The pacing of that scene (in issue one) seemed deliberate. I expected Tailgate to freak out the moment he saw Whirl, instead it takes a moment. And that's been rattling around in my head since 2012.

I don't mind if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Mr. Roberts knows we are picking up on things like this, because I think he would too, in our shoes... which is what makes it great fun!

User avatar
zigzagger
Posts: 3432
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:40 am

Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #48

Post by zigzagger » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:48 am

Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #48 three-page preview by way of iTunes.

Full issue out December 23.
Attachments
mtmte 48 p3.jpg
mtmte 48 p2.jpg
mtmte 48 p1.jpg

User avatar
Patapsco
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:24 pm
Contact:

Post by Patapsco » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:26 am

It's out! I need to re-read it but the one thing I didn't want to happen out of the last issue happened right off the bat. As for the rest of it, it feels like a massive infodump of an issue. There's some good stuff in there (too much Rung and Skids for my tastes), but it doesn't really go anywhere until the final page reveal

User avatar
Red Dave Prime
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Post by Red Dave Prime » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:43 pm

pandagork wrote:It's out! I need to re-read it but the one thing I didn't want to happen out of the last issue happened right off the bat. As for the rest of it, it feels like a massive infodump of an issue. There's some good stuff in there (too much Rung and Skids for my tastes), but it doesn't really go anywhere until the final page reveal
Yeah, think I'm going to go with all that. The start is likely going to infuriate some (I'll be honest, I sighed) but the juicy info middle of this issue is really intriguing - just all seems to happen incredibly fast. The art style, while fine, isn't as precise as normal and I feel that's not helping (could be intended)

But it's an issue which really needs a re-read. or three.

Post Reply