Rewatched season 1 of the G1 cartoon

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:04 pm

I dunno, the idea of 2015 being the arrival point to me because 2015 is pretty disgusting and a lot of the population are just numb to anything, with things like water on Mars just sliding straight out of the population's mind as soon as the next thing comes along. I've got a feeling that this planet's first contact with alien life is going to be a lot more meh than films portray it as; it's changed even since 2007. If the Autobots scanned the World Wide Web now they'd probably kill us all.

I do seriously think that current tech doesn't actually jibe that well with an interesting Transformers story; the only reason ROTF got away with the idea of something like Mission City being covered up was by playing it for laughs and it being six years ago. That whole angle would be obliterated by smart phones and TBH if Transformers could hack into wireless networks there's basically no need for them to contact anyone about anything. Even the '07 film had that problem of the Decepticons' plan being needlessly violent when they could have hacked a Paypal account, bought the glasses from Sam and just had them shipped somewhere Frenzy could pick them up, and if you were doing it realistically you wouldn't be able to ignore something like that.

The eighties would I feel give a good balance for stuff like that; no internet as such and relatively few computers, cameras etc. meaning more need for TF/human physical encounters but enough media and world infrastructure to keep things interesting. Not sure about the idea of Cold War alliances with opposing factions but the Cold War would be a good setting, with the USA/USSR's mistrust of each other providing a good canvas.

I'd certainly say the idea of a more political, adult look at G1 would make an interesting Elseworlds series or something for Netflix or similar; with the right handling giving it a human POV could work, with the TFs rarely glimpsed and their precise motivations kept a mystery.

If such a thing was to happen I'd really, really love to see the back of the human identification figures - not human characters, but humans who befriend the Autobots are a kids like us at home. I get it for G1, I get it for the movies but I think it was a very, very bad idea for IDW to go for it with Jubilee, Mulder Jr. and mechanic guy and contributed to the Furman material's silly ethos of pretending to be grown up but actually falling into the same old pitfalls.

Between Sunbow, Marvel, IDW, Bay and so on a lot of the elements needed have been put out there but nothing's tied them together.

Post by **Warcry** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:09 pm

Unicron wrote:True, but it would also depend on how open the aliens are with the enslaving/resource stripping plans. If that motive isn't known, then it wouldn't be unreasonable to see Russia teaming up with them because they oppose the guys who just teamed up with America.

Though that's not wrong in and of itself, I think the problem with that logic is that Optimus Prime would never choose sides in an alien civil war. If the 'Cons took a side and the Autobots needed to step in to stop the world from being overrun, sure. But if freedom is the right of all sentient beings then surely that right of self-determination extends to the species level as well and the Autobots shouldn't be the deciding factor in native ideological conflicts?

Which, yes, does say something about how Movie Prime's priorities differ from the G1 version.

Brendocon 2.0 wrote:Yeah, there's no logical reason (beyond "America good guys woooo") why, if a race of alien robots suddenly appeared on Earth, Russia would immediately look at the faction who want to enslave us all and drain our resources and say "well those are the guys we want to team up with!"

Because no Earth government would look at that faction and say that.

I actually think some Earth governments would sign up for that program. Dictatorships whose leaders are mostly interested in their own enrichment won't care who's footing the bill as long as they get their slice. If the Decepticons are willing to pay more for the right to enslave the population and despoil the resources than their current corporate sponsors are, some of them would take the deal. I could see some single-issue extremist groups signing up as well, becoming Decepticon client groups in exchange for the promise that the Decepticons will be enslaving/destroying their enemies.

I mean, if Starscream rolled in and said "Hey, if you give us the output from your mines and oilfields, we'll use it to crush the Western imperialist dogs/Communist ideologues that have been oppressing you so much", you don't think at least some countries would sign on?

Brendocon 2.0 · Post by **Brendocon 2.0** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:14 pm

Yeah, there is that.

My brain went immediately to the overt shameless 80s toon Decepticons who didn't have the nous to try and be subtle about their intentions.

Allowing room for misrepresentation of intent, then yeah sure.

That's one hell of a ****ing reimagining though.

Never really did understand where they found Dr Arkeville and exactly how he came to be so ****ing naive.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:21 pm

...could actually work in the context of a Cold War arms race. Both sides arrive on Earth for whatever reason; Autobots publically revealed however in America; Decepticons lying about intentions roll up in Russia claiming the Autobots are the bad guys and have thrown in with the USA, USSR signs them up as a counter-force.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:22 pm

Mabye Arkeville's metal hat was actually like in Tripods and a 'cap' that gave him a level of autonomy but didn't make him question so much.

Or he was just a little sh*t after enriching himself with the technology and science stuff an alliance with the 'cons provided.

Thinking of this stuff about alliances with superior powers etc has just made me think about the blackly comical situation in Syria, with the Russians and Americans flying around bombing the sh*t out of everything.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:54 pm

At least in terms of the pilot, it would actually make sense for a government (East or West) to a deal with the Decepticons. The amount of energy they steal across More Than Meets the Eye is basically small potatoes, it would make sense for someone to go "We'll just give you this in exchange for SPACE guns and anti gravity and that shrinking thing you do".

Indeed, the Autobots do seem to have such a deal in place anyway, Earth technology is clearly much more advanced by 2005 than it would have been without their presence so presumably cartoon Prime doesn't have Marvel/Bay Prime's reluctance to share out his technology (cartoon Prime also clearly favours America even if it's not entirely an exclusive deal, each US City we see in season 3 looks like Blade Runner whilst all Moscow has managed to do is move the Kremlin into a different building).

It's easy to imagine a quid pro quo for "Yeah, you let me and my mates set up a city and we'll give you good shit. And we'll protect you from the Decepticons as well! Ignore the fact the Decepticons are only still bothering you because we shot down their spaceship as they were leaving at the end of the pilot after they'd taken all they wanted. Nice planet you've got here... be a shame if anything happened to it".

Tetsuro · Post by **Tetsuro** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:22 am

I saw this bit on wikipedia which I don't recall seeing on tfwiki:

David Wise, who wrote much of Omega Supreme's backstory in the original animated series, has described Omega Supreme as a "stupid character" which was based on a toy that was "completely illogical," and that as such he felt it would be amusing to give the character a complex past.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:44 am

Well, technically he's not wrong. Though really it was the way the cartoon writers treated Omega (having his entire body turn up wherever the rocket went) that was illogical rather than the toy itself.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:49 am

I saw this on Wikipedia that I don't recall seeing on TFWiki:

perspective

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Omega Supreme suffered from a perspective problem in the comic, was he getting smaller or just further away?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:29 pm

Older. Though it wasn't quite as bad as making a big fuss about stapling Cerebros in between Galen and Fort Max and then just drawing him the same basic size afterwards most of the time anyway.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:21 pm

Indeed. If this is Fort Max post-enlargement (phwoar, etc) how bloody small was he before?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:35 pm

The best way of handling it would have been to make Hardhead, Point Blank et al. Minibot-sized when the two groups of Autobots met up. Bob did weirder shit than that every issue by that period.

EDIT: And I do love the way Grimlock's just holding his gun in that briefing - y'know, in case Hoist kicks the **** off or Ironhide threatens to remember that exactly the same thing happened in Target 2006 or something. Top tracing, Robin, I could never get the paper to lay right on the TPB.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:01 am

He's probably just intensely stressed at the fact that the Underbase saga is somehow going on at the exact same time as the Time Wars.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:02 pm

Maybe that's where they all run off to when things get crazy at the end of Time Wars? "Swoop, Grimlock - with me! To New York!"

EDIT: Talking of moderately amusing Time Wars art I've always loved the way that this frame makes it look like Galvatron's distracted Carnivac by making him play fetch with Twin Twist's head.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:07 pm

Death's Head wrote:Indeed. If this is Fort Max post-enlargement (phwoar, etc) how bloody small was he before?

Still, Prime is all ready to shoot the ceiling and Fort Max has his kung fu chop lined up.

The odd thing with Maximus is that they clearly knew how the toy worked when they did Headmasters (as poor old Frank Springer keeps drawing Cerebrus in the wrong place), so I'm not sure why they didn't just introduce him there as a drone used to get his head up to the right size.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:28 am

Considering the whole 'enlargement' thing (snigger etc), it makes you wonder if Cerebros' character model was originally meant to be used in Headmasters, with the larger, city-sized body finally getting an outing in the proper series. I don't think Max uses his base mode during the limited series, does he?

If that wasn't the case, it bloody should have been. One of the few things the Rebirth did a bit better, I think.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:32 am

Cliffjumper wrote:Maybe that's where they all run off to when things get crazy at the end of Time Wars? "Swoop, Grimlock - with me! To New York!"

EDIT: Talking of moderately amusing Time Wars art I've always loved the way that this frame makes it look like Galvatron's distracted Carnivac by making him play fetch with Twin Twist's head.

Rodimus's utter lack of shit-giving is pretty funny as well. It's like he's watching a fight erupt in a pub while he's safely upstairs.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:32 pm

Watched Nightmare Planet for Halloween last night. It does feel like a really good episode that's had all the bits between the set pieces edited out so that it makes no sense (and winds up short, it's the only episode with two of those Secret Files things isn't it?), though them deciding not to bother with the "Escape from jail" stuff is actually quite funny. Plus Springer and Razorclaw are great fun, I especially love how the later says "Goooooooooold".

It's Headstrong and his attempt to remind Giant Galvatron who he is that steals the show though.

Tetsuro · Post by **Tetsuro** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:45 pm

inflatable dalek wrote: It's Headstrong and his attempt to remind Giant Galvatron who he is that steals the show though.

And you would almost blame him for being that stupid, but then you remember it's Headstrong.