Rewatched season 1 of the G1 cartoon

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Skyquake87
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Post by Skyquake87 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:31 pm

Masterforce is better, imo. Its less stupid, anyway. And there's an actual plot and it builds in pace and scale as the show rolls on. My favourite of the Japanese series. Victory and Headmasters are just... sigh.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:48 pm

Yeah, I've had a lot of time for Masterforce in the past. Well, more time than I've got for this cluster****. For a start I actually made it all the way through the first time I watched it, which is more than I've ever managed with Headmasters. It's only sheer force of will and my inherent stubbornness that's stopping me from putting the discs through the tumble dryer this time out.

SGMF has the benefit of more-or-less a complete disconnect from the preceding seasons, alongside not really feeling like "proper" Transformers, so I don't judge it on the same curve as Attack of the Autobots or Fight or Flee. The fact I don't watch piloted-mech stuff in general also means I've got no frame of reference in that regard so can just enjoy it for what it is.

Whereas Headmasters is a complete mess on pretty much every level due to trying to operate as both a vehicle for the new characters and also a follow-up to 2010, while hindered by being so massively different in tone to everything that's come before (at least from a Western standpoint).

Killing off Soundwave and Blaster only to bring them back with new colour schemes, having Prime merge with the Matrix after only being back ten minutes, establishing Rodimus as leader again just to put him on a bus, having Galvatron blow up only to come back only to blow up again, going to the effort of having an episode where Ultra Magnus dies despite the fact that we'd all forgotten he was still alive anyway. It can't decide what it's doing with the old cast from one week to the next. So not only is Headmasters mind-bogglingly stupid anyway, it also can't make up its mind what the story is.

Masterforce has a clean break so just gets on with its own story without having to try and deal with everybody who's still hanging about from the previous year.

Okay, whether or not that story's much cop is another matter entirely, but at least it's concentrating on its own thing rather than having a massive identity crisis.

NB I reserve the right to spend January slagging off Masterforce with maximum prejudice, btw. It may be different to Headmasters in the ways stated but I'm still allowed to hate it on its own merits.

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Post by Hound » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:41 pm

I don't think I agree. It's been years since I watched either but I remember being mostly bored with Headmasters while Masterforce wasn't so boring. Neither is great but at least Masterforce has a halfway decent plot that runs through it.

Masterforce feels more like a super robot anime to me than a proper season of Transformers.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:39 pm

's what I said. But I said it with more words. And a cooler accent.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:44 pm

:(
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Skyquake87
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Post by Skyquake87 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:08 pm

Well done, Galvatron. Well done. What an excellent plan. Why the Decpeticons didn't shoot him in the face for that idea, I don't know.

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Post by Hound » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:21 am

Brendocon 2.0 wrote:'s what I said. But I said it with more words. And a cooler accent.
Yes. I was actually replying to Cyberstrike, I didn't see Skyquake or your replies as they were on the next page and didn't notice that there was a next page to look at. Sorry.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:50 am

Yeah, s'what I figured, so don't apologise - was just saying that you put it more succinctly. Plus getting in a dig about how you're Canadian now.

Sorry, aboot how you're Canadian now.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:57 am

Brendocon 2.0 wrote::(
Oh come on now, that's brilliant, and surely a very deliberate piss take of the entire show? Sixshot's slowly dawning realisation that Galvatron's trying to implement a mad Saturday morning TV plot and how this is actually a terrible thing is the best moment the character has ever had.
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:31 am

inflatable dalek wrote:Oh come on now, that's brilliant, and surely a very deliberate piss take of the entire show?
You... you genuinely think the people in charge of this had the self-awareness to lampoon themselves as they go?

Seriouslies?

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Post by inflatable dalek » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:32 am

Maybe it was a one off writer?
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Post by Tetsuro » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:28 am

The biggest problem with Masterforce is hinting at all these ideas that would make for great story elements to build over the course of it's 40+ episode run, only to totally ignore them in the actual show and just shunt them into some direct to video compilation where they just go "oh, and this thing happened", and even then they don't bother even hinting at an explanation for everything, like what's the deal with Doubleclouder's CIA connection.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:03 pm

Pointblank's dramatic hero pose and kickass character model completely undermined by pretending to be best mates with Wheelie.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:45 pm

I loved it when the Targetmasters turned up. Because it felt like sixty episodes since we'd seen any Autobots but the bloody Headmasters and Wheelie.

The most annoying thing about Headmasters (well, not, but the one I'm thinking of right now) is that Japanese Autobot characterisation of the five main guys. Chirpy, courageous interchangeable zombies; all bar Chromedome (who was always The Other One until Roberts wanted to drive up the price before ebaying his) unquestionably get better characterisation in "The Rebirth". Yup, better characterisation in "The Rebirth" than in 30-odd episodes that are basically about them.

(Incidentally, I have a feeling you might not have been active when one priceless poster declared that Headmasters was perfect grist to be Voltron'd into a successful teen-orientated anime series for broadcast on TV. In 2012.)

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:18 am

Cliffjumper wrote:I loved it when the Targetmasters turned up. Because it felt like sixty episodes since we'd seen any Autobots but the bloody Headmasters and Wheelie.
Not true, they dusted off Ultra Magnus about three beforehand just so they could kill him.

It's excellent how they all make such a fuss, too. "OMG he was my best friend, a true hero, a wonderful Autobot who's not even turned grey or has any visibly damage and hang on didn't we just rebuild Broadcast and he legit exploded? No, you're right. Into the sea with his body."
Jesus f***, I didn't make it to the end of page 1, even considering I was sort of glazing over when reading the original poster's responses.

Headmasters isn't something that can be fixed by a dub, new subs or editing bits out and replacing them with footage from something else. It's diabolical on a cellular level and the only cure would be to take the basic, basic, basic, basic overarching plot and make an entirely new story based on that.

Call it, I dunno, Titans Return or something...

Thing with HM was, as you point out in that other thread, back before it was available for us to all watch it had this mythical mystique. "Oh the cartoon carried on in Japan. Prime merged with the Matrix, Soundwave got an upgrade, Cybertron blew up, Sixshot killed Ultra Magnus in a duel. Be warned though, the dub is appalling." etc and so on.

Then we all got the opportunity to watch it and realised we were being trolled. "Haha, good one internet. You left out the bit about Trypticon and the rope bridge, how Soundwave's new form is shit, how all the characters are idiots, and that Daniel and Wheelie are the emotional hub of the series. Well played."

Unfortunately some people just insist on clinging onto the myth because doing otherwise involves admitting that the thing they'd wanted since c1988 (ie a continuation of G1) is ****ing terrible.

And considering many of them have trouble admitting that the original cartoon is anything other than perfect... well. You end up with threads like that.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:02 pm

SUCCESS! I'VE DONE IT!

I've made it into the block of episodes I've never seen before. So that's a win.

Plus: Flywheels.

I think I'm developing some form of Stockholm syndrome with the opening theme tune. Turansfooma! Turansfooma! Heddumasutaaaaa!

Help me.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:10 pm

There's no help for you.

Fully agreed on the mysticism the Japanese stuff used to have. Remember how people used to be convinced there were a load of unaired season 4 episodes sitting in a vault somewhere in the East with no evidence as well?

That thread reminds me of the chap who hated Revenge of the Fallen so much he was prepared to devote hours of his life to re-editing it to make it "Watchable". Not good, just bearable. Because Stan Bush can do that.
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:22 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:Remember how people used to be convinced there were a load of unaired season 4 episodes sitting in a vault somewhere in the East with no evidence as well?
Usually pointing to the original (coughtoyadvertrecyccough) footage in the Rebirth credits as evidence. Because every other season's opening sequences consisted of scenes from the episodes, obviously.

Holy Buddha on a chocolate BMX, this Sixshot face-turn episode is everything I feared it would be and less.

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Post by Skyquake87 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:36 pm

I can't remember that one. Probably a good thing. Its not the one where he unveils his piss-poor super awesome 'seventh mode' is it?

"If you're called Sixshot, why do you have 7 modes?"

"Shut up or I'll fly at you with my wolf face. Ninja consultant style."

Ninja consultant. You can tell this is set in our time. I bet that's some bullshit civil servant job or mid-management non-job somewhere.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:42 pm

Nah, Sevenshot is the one where they remember Ultra Magnus needs killing off.

I was referring to the one where he gets stranded on a planet (maybe an asteroid? a moon?) with Daniel and the two of them become the bestest friends that ever did friend.

I don't think there's a single episode in this series that hasn't elicited a "jesus f***" from me at some point.

Nearly finished the last episode. I've not killed anybody yet. Though the Decepticon Headmasters have just decided that stacking on top of each other in beast mode is definitely the best way to attack the Autobots, so I might have to go and stab somebody now.

Random questions:
- Are Spike and Carly the most irresponsible parents in the universe?
- Where the **** are Cyclonus and Scourge? I mean I'd have probably done a runner in their position, too. But at least mention it guys...

[EDIT] Finished!

The Power Formation of Friendship saves the day!

Irredeemable tosh. What an unsalvageable cluster**** of a series. Shit right down to the DNA. Give me the Rebirth over that every time.

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