gundam vs transformers opinions

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gundam vs transformers opinions

Post by kupimus aka(clocker) » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:02 am

sorry

how does transformers and gundam compare. i know i could look online to see what they are like, but i would rather some fans opinions on this. i am a huge fan of tf toys like the alternator silverstreak and smokescreen mould, the classics/universe seeker mould and jetfire . also most of cybertron.

so would i like gundam? and what do u prefer
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Post by Knightdramon » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:55 am

There's about 10 different gundam lines at the moment, could you elaborate more?

Gundam as a collectibles franchise begun with model kits back in 1980 or 1978. Most of the current Gundam kits do not require glue or paint, but most of them look bland without some paint or panel-lining. Assembly time varies; could take you about an hour to five or six hours.

Model kits come in three prevailing scales; 1:144, 1:100 and 1:60. Most of the 1/144 scale kits are relatively affordable [priced at around 10-20 USD], take about an hour to build and are fairly poseable. You do need to paint on the finer details though. Do note that some models of bigger machines cost a lot more and may take even more to build, despite being 1:144. Average size is that of a scout-deluxe figure.

1:100 is represented better in Master Grade kits. Their cost is anywhere from ~25 USD to over 80 USD [especially with the newer ones]. Most of them have an inner frame you build first, then snap on the armour parts. Extremely poseable, fantastic representations that take minimal paint to look good. Size is that of a voyager-ultra figure, but there are models that come close to leader class in bulk and height.

1:60 is reserved for Perfect Grade kits. Average build time is ~10 hours and most of them have an electronics module you have to put together\install for their eyes to light up\chest panels and so on. They're about 30 centimetres tall, although, I can't stress it enough, it depends on the machine you're building. They used to be the cream of the crop with individually articulated fingers and inner frames, but have been outclassed by Master Grades of the past few years. Their cost is at around 150-250 USD.

If you're looking for poseable figures, the more recent Robot Damashii line-up offers poseable gundams from various eras [and other robots as well]. They're fairly detailed, articulated and fun, but are small [12-15 centimetres tall], have no scale, and cost around 25-30 USD a piece.

HCM-Pro was also a poseable figure line, but at 1:200 scale they stood too small. The Super HCM-Pro line, whilst almost dead, is at 1:144 scale, extremely detailed, hyper-articulated but cost around 50 USD per unit.

Word of advice though, these aren't your typical transformer-type figures. The model kits are about 10 times more poseable than your average transformer, but aren't made for rough handling. The few transformable gundam types turn into things that vaguely resemble futuristic spaceships or in rare cases, tanks.

You can find tons of pictorial reviews on almost all modern model kits on http://www.dalong.net

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Post by Cliffjumper » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:54 pm

Beyond them both being toy robot lines there are basically no similarities whatsoever. Erm, beyond that most of the 'complete' figures are well-made, dynamic, don't turn into florescent cars and have nice colour schemes, so I doubt someone who likes Cybertron will find a lot of pleasure in Gundam.

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Post by Jaynz » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:39 pm

kupimus aka(clocker) wrote:sorry

how does transformers and gundam compare. i know i could look online to see what they are like, but i would rather some fans opinions on this. i am a huge fan of tf toys like the alternator silverstreak and smokescreen mould, the classics/universe seeker mould and jetfire . also most of cybertron.

so would i like gundam? and what do u prefer
Uh.. unusually I have to go with Cliffy on this one. The sagas/figures/etc. are completely different without much base to go on. Other than both series having robots (or a sort), they're not all to similar.

Gundam is largely a series about war in a somewhat realistic view. Characters die, and not just in the movies, and it's usually sudden and violent. Issues of family, conflicting political viewpoints, etc, are all over the series. Fangirl squee-character Char Aznable can just as easily be seen as a hero as a villain and with both viewpoints quite legitimate.

The mecha are closer to 'battletech', though obviously faster in movement. They're almost always piloted, with lots of emphasis on functional designs. There are some transformers (usually quite simple, and then for a 'transport mode' only), but not most.

The 'toy lines' are far more fixed on high detail models rather than kids' action toys (though there are some). So getting a $20 US gundam means you're getting an affordable and posable model kit which won't have the play-factor of a Transformer toy. The kids' toys are lighter plastic, more akin to Power Rangers.

All this said, that's still a broad brush. Gundam Seed has a different feel and focus than 00, and a wildly different feel than the quasi-parody of G Gundam and the blatant parody of SD.

So, in short, I've got no idea if you would like Gundam. It's not Transformers, it's not GI Joe, it's Gundam. If you really want to try it out, I would recommend getting Gundam Seed and trying it out. It's pretty representative overall as well as modern and has some very good Gundam designs.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:05 pm

Yeh, something which can't be stressed enough is that transforming Gundam don't transform into cars or anything (I think there was one Guntank that could really be said to have a vehicle mode, and maybe a couple of other random minor suits). Most of the ones that do transform more sort-of... reconfigure, largely just moving unnecessary parts out of the way to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible - e.g. the Zeta or Wing Zero. So there's minimal attempts to hide things like hands being exposed or one part blatantly being the legs. The vast, vast, vast majority have no more functionality than, say, a GI Joe figure though.

More common is something made up of modules, but those (e.g. the original Gundam, the Double Zeta or the Victory) make even less effort to disguise themselves than even your traditional Super Robots, just because that's not the point.

The mech designs tend to be largely unglamorous - the original, with its' white/blue/red/yellow, is flash by the series' standards. They're military hardware with more in common with fighter jets than Transformers, and outside of main characters in any given series, they'll have flat, functional colour schemes and minimal ornamentation.

Me? Love Gundam, love most of the mechs too, but it's got little to do with Transformers and the figures are difficult to directly compare... Gundam's more toy soldiers but the soldiers are robots.

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Post by Jaynz » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:14 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Yeh, something which can't be stressed enough is that transforming Gundam don't transform into cars or anything (I think there was one Guntank that could really be said to have a vehicle mode, and maybe a couple of other random minor suits).
There's a Guntank in F91 that's a passable half-track, and a variant of it coming in Unicorn. The original Guntank, of course, was just a torso on treads.

We do start seeing more passable 'transformer' Gundams in Seed, with the Orb mobile suits capable of a passable jet mode, and the Gundam Savior having a lot of the same cues. The Destroy Gundam transforms from a Big Zam into the Psyco Gundam MK II, but few people would get that reference who weren't already into Gundam...

As you mentioned, Wing Gundam gives us the 'transport transform', which gives you a rough airframe to move around in. Wing, Epyon, Wing Zero, and the ubiquitous Zeta Gundam all have this. (Technically, the Double Zeta has this as well, but it's more cumbersome than that.) If you're looking for realistic alt-modes, though, it's pretty much a handful of suits from Seed and Seed Destiny.
The mech designs tend to be largely unglamorous - the original, with its' white/blue/red/yellow, is flash by the series' standards. They're military hardware with more in common with fighter jets than Transformers, and outside of main characters in any given series, they'll have flat, functional colour schemes and minimal ornamentation.
Unless you're Meer Campbell... But I actually find myself enjoying Gundam's aesthestic overall more than Transformers. Compare even the Aegis's colors to your typical (non movie-verse, non Diaclone, at least) Transformer, and it's pretty obvious which way on the 'realism' meter it's going.

If you're interested in the suits, check out http://www.mahq.net under 'Gundam' and you'll get nearly every one ever released in one form or another on it.

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Post by borg72 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:00 pm

best way i found to get into gundam was to pick a single series and stick with it. I went with gundam 00, one of the most recent. it has good subs, and an american dub. and a movie coming out in september, i think. PM if you need help finding it.

others might recommend 'gundam SEED' and the all-new 'gundam unicorn' (but theres only one episode of that so far)

once you've found a series you like, you'll end up with a fave gundam. once you're that far in, then start hunting for sets.

can't tell you much on toys/kits, i only have the one gundam-00 robot damashii, but i can tell you that he's a lot of fun to play with, and nicely poseable. robot damashii are comparable to revoltech toys, there are people who have preferences either way.

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Post by Savannahtron » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:43 pm

I like different forms of mecha...I built a few Gundam models and had a lot of fun doing so. I never bought anything super expensive, but there is a Hello Kitty store here that sells some of the larger Gundam models. I bought some of those bobble head looking ones and still have those.

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Post by kupimus aka(clocker) » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:59 pm

Thank you for all the interesting advice everyone. It also explains alot about why most of the time long-time posters are decidedly unimpressed with lines like energon and cybertron. I guess compared to more adult -intended toylines they can seem a little silly in design. I've always just generally liked the rubbish futuristic modes and silly colors. Hmmm perhaps gundam isnt for me, but thanks for all the info. (i still like ejector)
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Post by Jaynz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:02 am

borg72 wrote:best way i found to get into gundam was to pick a single series and stick with it. I went with gundam 00, one of the most recent. it has good subs, and an american dub. and a movie coming out in september, i think. PM if you need help finding it.
I just couldn't get into 00 very much. It seemed like it was trying very to be all the other Gundam series somehow and just not pulling any of it off. It does have the distinction of being the most 'fair' look at modern politics of any of the Gundam series, though.
others might recommend 'gundam SEED'
SEED is pretty strong as a 'first viewing' series, though. It also helps that there's a sequel series and a lot of associated side-bar material if you really happen to get into it.
and the all-new 'gundam unicorn' (but theres only one episode of that so far)
Two OVAs and a movie for Unicorn, but I wouldn't recommend it to get into Gundam. There's way too much Universal Century backstory required to understand what the hell is going on (even just missing ZZ loses you some points).

The other good starter is 'Wing', which is self-contained, still available, and very easy to get information on. Sadly, the model kits for that series are a bit below the current HG/MG standards (though we're getting a couple of new ones) if you want to start getting the suits.
can't tell you much on toys/kits, i only have the one gundam-00 robot damashii, but i can tell you that he's a lot of fun to play with, and nicely poseable. robot damashii are comparable to revoltech toys, there are people who have preferences either way.
My closet looks like the White Base these days. I generally found that SEED has the best of the HG series, with the MG definately going to the Universal Century sets. Wing and G Gundam far behind in quality due to just being older models not yet remade (a lot more reliance on paint and stickers rather than different sprues, and a lower grade of plastic).

The 00 series has a lot of fans, but I found the majority of 00 HGs to be way too fragile compared to anything else. SEED had the advantage of that 'Classic Gundam' sturdiness along with the newest model-sprue techniques.

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Post by Knightdramon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:18 am

TFVanguard wrote: Two OVAs and a movie for Unicorn, but I wouldn't recommend it to get into Gundam. There's way too much Universal Century backstory required to understand what the hell is going on (even just missing ZZ loses you some points).
Unicron is comprised of 6 OVAs, of which only one is released at the moment...

After the train wreck [IMO] that was Seed, 00 started out terrific with a fantastic first season. Didn't quite keep the quality up during the full extent of S2, but that last episode was mecha porn at its finest, most modern form.

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Post by Treadshot A1 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:21 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Beyond them both being toy robot lines there are basically no similarities whatsoever. Erm, beyond that most of the 'complete' figures are well-made, dynamic, don't turn into florescent cars and have nice colour schemes, so I doubt someone who likes Cybertron will find a lot of pleasure in Gundam.
Wow. Unusually i agree with you 100%. I think compared to Cybertron, Gundam...well i can't draw any compartisons other than them both being robots.

I dunno, i think it better to start with 00. The HG kit's are reasonably good at 1/144 scale. Robot Damashii is the other alternative, no paint required.

Meh, try one series, and who knows? If you want the crazy alt modes and flourescent colours, get yourself a trans am Arios. :lol:
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Post by Jaynz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:16 pm

Knightdramon wrote:Unicron is comprised of 6 OVAs, of which only one is released at the moment...
I thought they put three of the episodes onto one OVA disc, domestically. (I've only followed it lightly, as I'm going to wait for the whole thing to come out and be done before I get into it.) It's definately a Newtype/Concept heavy piece, though, referencing a lot of other UC properties (even the name is a pun!), so, like I said, I wouldn't want to START someone with it.
After the train wreck [IMO] that was Seed, 00 started out terrific with a fantastic first season. Didn't quite keep the quality up during the full extent of S2, but that last episode was mecha porn at its finest, most modern form.
I actually enjoyed SEED quite a bit, though Destiny left me a bit cold. (I also strongly recommend Stargazer). I'm about seven episodes into 00 and I honestly just can't get into it - there's something just missing that would make me care about the characters. The only SEED character I really wanted to slap around was Shin Asuka... 00 has me pretty much only liking Lockon and Haro so far... dangit.

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Post by borg72 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:40 pm

TFVanguard wrote:

I actually enjoyed SEED quite a bit, though Destiny left me a bit cold. (I also strongly recommend Stargazer). I'm about seven episodes into 00 and I honestly just can't get into it - there's something just missing that would make me care about the characters. The only SEED character I really wanted to slap around was Shin Asuka... 00 has me pretty much only liking Lockon and Haro so far... dangit.
To be fair, lockon was the only character not to be a complete shit in some sense or another. I suppose that's why i quite liked 00, as it never made any representation that any one person or side was in the 'right'. there weren't any good guys per se, everyone just ranged from 'selfish' through 'ambiguous' to 'complete shit'. people just kind of muddled through the conflct without there being any good guys or bad guys. I guess that's what iI found a bit refreshing.

biting my tongue about the end of season 1, too.

EDIT: go on then, I'm going to have another go with SEED.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:59 pm

Bah, you should all just watch Turn A.

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Post by Jaynz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:13 pm

borg72 wrote:To be fair, lockon was the only character not to be a complete shit in some sense or another. I suppose that's why i quite liked 00, as it never made any representation that any one person or side was in the 'right'
I think that they overdid it, though. Seriously, they're all just messed up so much that I was going "And they give this guy a Gundam?" They don't have to be modern paladins like Kira or awesome special ops like Heero, but.. jeeze... having the worst character traits of Shin, Amuro, and Kamille without any of the GOOD? Ick!
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Post by Knightdramon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:10 pm

Gundam Seed on its own is actually pretty watchable, it's when you put it before Seed Destiny and make it part of the series it loses all credibility. I actually rank the first six or so episodes of Destiny pretty high, it's after that when the series starts to crumble to pieces. I did like Shin and Rey a lot, lot more than other people give them credit for, strangely.

Stargazer is awesome indeed, no contest about it.

00 does get a bit tedious at first, only because it takes a good 10 or so episodes to move the plot forward. The last 5 episodes are awesome, but you have to get acquainted with the characters to appreciate them.

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Post by Jaynz » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:16 pm

Knightdramon wrote:Gundam Seed on its own is actually pretty watchable, it's when you put it before Seed Destiny and make it part of the series it loses all credibility. I actually rank the first six or so episodes of Destiny pretty high, it's after that when the series starts to crumble to pieces. I did like Shin and Rey a lot, lot more than other people give them credit for, strangely.
Destiny wears better after the first watch and you realize that Shin is a loser outright. Shin's real problem is that he has four potential moments of truth throughout the series, and he promptly blows all four of them. Honestly, I really wish Athrun had fallen more into a Noa Bright role with him - Shin needed a good anti-Emo bitch-slapping. Rey just needed a little more face time to explain his sudden change at the end of the series.

(Desinty had a few issues in production that explains most of this. Shin was originally supposed to become Athrun's protoge, and the overall series would be more like Zeta, up against Phantom Pain.. but, several infights of the production crew later...)
Stargazer is awesome indeed, no contest about it.
Amazing the amount of awesome they got in three OVAs. Though the death of the Blu Duel is particularly chilling and may not be suitable for casual viewing...
00 does get a bit tedious at first, only because it takes a good 10 or so episodes to move the plot forward. The last 5 episodes are awesome, but you have to get acquainted with the characters to appreciate them.
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Post by Knightdramon » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:12 pm

I did like Shin back then and still prefer him to Kira or even Athrun. I do find it a bit odd that they make a 16 year old a member of an elite squad [FAITH or whatever] and later on a commander of his unit. I don't mind the protagonists becoming the antagonists, even, but what happened was just ridiculous. Athrun should have stayed with ZAFT, all it took to shake him up was Kira's line and destruction of Saviour? "I know what you're saying...it's perfectly reasonable...you are, after all, fighting the ones who started the war, but...Cagalli is crying!" :down: If that's not bad writing, I don't know what is.

I view Shin more as a troubled youth who tries to find some sense in the world, hence my liking of him. He was so angry at...Orb, wasn't it, that in the end he preferred just burning it all down so that Orb's people wouldn't have to suffer because of the idiots ruling them. True, he'd kill them all anyway, but I still liked him for it. If anything, it's Athrun's writing that ruined the series and potentially messed up Shin.

Plus, a winged gundam in the traditional blue\red\gray scheme and a devilish dragoon monster were beaten up by...a PINK suit with a purple backpack and a white piece of crap with golden joints? Bleh.

Besides the first line and possibly the second...I don't understand your 00 parody. Setsuna is not my favourite lead, but the other three are just perfect. You've got a schizophrenic killer behind a Gundam for once, a seemingly arrogant prick with the coolest gundam in ages and Lockon, who's just too awesome for words.

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Post by borg72 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:25 am

with reference to the above, i mostly agree with everything about 00, but again, that's what made me enjoy it so.

that, and its the only time i've ever screamed the phrase "YOU SH*TS! YOU UTTER, UTTER, F*CKS!" actually through my computer to the writers and story editors for a certain event in the season one finale that I wont spoil.

anyhoo, I'll echo the above sentiment by throwing "you bastards!" (insert fist-shaking) to you lot for getting me to re-watch the first six of Gundam Seed and actually really enjoying it. Dammit, now I'm going to have to marathon that one, too.

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