Third party toy discussion (stuff that's been released)

Figures, collectables, customs and collecting.
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Warcry
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Post by Warcry »

Clay wrote:As you can see, all of the whopping five or six points of molded or sticker detail from the front side of the original have been incorporated into the Fenrir figure. They've changed the shin ridges from silver to teal, but they're still silver on the inset molding (it's hard to tell in that picture, though).
I...um...what? Seriously? Literally every single one of the details you circled on the third-party toy is either the wrong colour, the wrong shape, in the wrong place or all of the above, and some of them don't look a thing like the original detail you say they're trying to emulate. Using those loose standards I could probably throw up a side-by-side of MP Prowl with G1 Jazz or Overdrive and find just as many "similarities".

I mean, it's not like it would have been difficult to replicate those bits and bobs more closely, because like you say there's not that many of them.
Clay wrote:I can do this for the rest of the group if you want?
I dunno, that sounds like a lot of effort to put into being wrong. :glance:
Clay wrote:Blot's beast head is his chest, yes. It just folds in to fit more flush.
Which means he doesn't look much like Blot. His chest is basically flat instead of having a giant angry nose poking out, which is the #1 thing that any toy trying to look like Blot should have.
Clay wrote:Wait, so you want giant dangly beast legs hanging off robot legs? That's not a part of the originals that you look at and say, "Hmm, if somebody revisits these figures, that's what needs to stay"?
...yes? Obviously they can be streamlined some, but I don't see how engineering out one of the Terrorcons' only distinguishing features is a good starting point for making Terrorcon figures. That would be like getting rid of Prowl's door-wings or Starscream's shoulder air intakes. You might be able to succeed without them but it makes the job a whole lot harder.
Clay wrote:I think they nailed Hunger both in look and function. He's probably the best torso-bot yet in terms of not towering over his team while also making a proportional body for the combined mode (his alt mode being a fictional beast helps).
I won't debate you over whether the toy looks good or not because that's a matter of taste (yours is bad ;) ) but I really don't understand why you'd want him to be the same size as the other Terrorcons. The team leaders are supposed to be huge compared to their troops. That's, like, the whole point.
Clay wrote:I actually had the Terrorcons and Technobots as a kid, so my Serious Business trumps your Serious Business! :p
I had most of them myself, just not all at once.

Obviously the problem here is that you didn't appreciate them the right way as a child. ;)
Clay wrote:I will agree that the individual robots for Quantron take varying degrees of liberty, but I love the results so it doesn't bug me. But the Ordin Terrorcons... I don't get it. They look spot on to me.
Since you mentioned him...Quantron is an ugly, over-bulked piece of crap and the individual robot modes are so laughably bad that you'd almost think the people who designed them had never seen a Transformer before. :) I would honestly be a touch ashamed to own one.

Ordin on the other hand appears to be a competently-designed set that'd be fun to mess around with. I just wish his designers hadn't gone out of their way to get rid of all the absurd silliness that made me love the Terrorcons to begin with. Without that, I just feel like...why even bother?
Clay wrote:Now I will say that none of these companies seem interested in producing the complementary weapons for these figures, which to me had just as much or more character than the figures themselves.
This, I'll agree with you wholeheartedly on. Though I'd go a bit farther. It's not just third-party companies doing it and it's not just the combiners who suffer. No Transformer toys these days come with their respective characters' proper weapons unless it's a Masterpiece, and even then you're likely to get screwed out of something because it's so much more important for Prowl's missile launchers to be an exclusive or for Grimlock to come with a stupid apron/serving tray/crown instead of his missile launcher. One of the very best things about G1 Transformers is that nearly every one of them came with at least one unique weapon, and I've got as many childhood memories of those weapons as I do of the toys themselves.

I mean, if "Fenrir" came with an over-under pistol and a gigantic back-mounted cannon in beast mode I'd be a lot more forgiving of the mold's flaws because that alone would help the toy look a lot more like Sinnertwin. Instead he appears to wield a couple of hook-things and wears and obvious foot on his back.
Brendocon 2.0 wrote:Yeah, I'm not really sold on any of them at all (beyond Feral Rex and Ordin, despite legitimate points observed). Warbotron's Brawl and Swindle really do it for me, but the other three Combaticons and the combined mode make me recoil. And again for all the other groups - there might be an individual figure or two for each set that I look at and think they've nailed it, but by the time I've seen the entire set and combined mode I've lost all enthusiasm.
I'd tend to agree on that, though I'd extend the same sentiments to official combiners as well. It's hard enough making an individual figure that I'd like, let alone a whole set of five or six that are hits at the same time.

This is where the lack of cross-compatibility and scrambleability hurts the 3P stuff, though -- because I can grab two CW Protectobots, one Stunticon, one Combaticon, etc. and still have fun throwing them together into a makeshift gestalt, but if I went out and bought five components from five different third-party combiners all I'd have is five different toys with different design aesthetics that neither function nor look good together.

(Even then I'd probably buy Warbotron's Brawl and Feral Rex's Tantrum if I had space for them.)
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Denyer
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Post by Denyer »

Both nice figures and the kind of approach I've gone with. All of the Ordin members look good, though.
&quot wrote:I've prepared a side by side. Here's Sinnertwin.
Nifty. Gives me some additional appreciation of him, as does knowing about the hind leg thing. Still going to be spending most time in the two-headed yellow dragon thing mode and a certain amount of update on character designs is welcome, but it's nice to see the thought process and influences.
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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 »

Think a lot of this is just going to have to be chalked down to individual preference. Ie whether you want a 3P toy to be a re-engineered and improved version of the original toy or as a bespoke representation of the character as portrayed in whatever the preferred fiction.

I'm in the latter camp. I'm fine with the Terrorcons losing bits of robot mode kibble in the interest of streamlining them, same as I am with Scoria's dino legs folding away into his robot ones. But at the same time if that means they lose what made the original design *work* for certain people and that's an issue for them, then that's a fair enough gripe.

Fairly certain most media portrays each Scramble team leader as being the same size as the rest of the team. So if they can find a way to do that, I'm in favour. Of course it has scale issues inherent for the Aerialbots and Stunticons. But on the Combaticons the scale was always ****ed (hey this tank's the same size as a jeep AND a space shuttle). On the Terrorcons... eh, they're all randomly designed fictional monsters.

Yeah, so basically I don't think there really is a "right" way.
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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 »

On a different note, I just got my mitts on Badcube's Wardog.

Absolutely ****ing ace. Complex without being overcomplicated (though it seems it at first). Great materials, solid build. Amazing design aesthetic and good articulation. Good size both in its own right and alongside the MP stuff.

Are those grey bits on his back meant to sit loose or should I be nudging them in beyond the ridge of the torso? Also feel like his tracks should be tabbing in somewhere on his feet, but beyond that I have absolutely no issues whatsoever.

I think their Sunstreaker just moved up to a definite for me.
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Denyer
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Post by Denyer »

Certainly one to keep an eye on.

Wardog's generally happy either with bits clipped flush (my preferred option) --

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0O9xfC7RJh4/V ... rdog08.jpg

Or hanging loose --

http://i0.wp.com/kumastyledesigns.com/w ... s/1413.png
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Post by inflatable dalek »

So did Clay have that Sinnertwin comparison chart to hand, or did he make it specially? Both options are slightly awesome, but I think the former is just that little more awesome.

Sounds like the 3P Terrorcons are a bit of a BLOT on Warcry's copybook.
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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 »

I don't think Warcry's going to appreciate being the BUTTO' that joke.
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Tetsuro
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Post by Tetsuro »

Anyone know where I could still get those G1 KOs? ebay has a few Sunstreakers but the only KO Wheeljack I can find is the MP.

Anyone have any experience with that ioffer site?
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Post by Rack 'n Ruin »

Tetsuro wrote:Anyone know where I could still get those G1 KOs? ebay has a few Sunstreakers but the only KO Wheeljack I can find is the MP.

Anyone have any experience with that ioffer site?
I have used iOffer (to get KO Shockwave, Sunstreaker, Mirage, and Wheeljack). Found it relatively painless to use. Just try to find which offers have been accepted for the item(s) you are after, and offer something in that region. The seller will likely make a counter-offer, but they should accept the same offer they have done previously. Most of the stuff I got was excellent quality. Sunstreaker had some dodgy paintwork though (nothing I couldn't touch up and live with).
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Post by Tantrum »

Brendocon 2.0 wrote:Yeah, I have to be honest, I think it makes sense. It's a good aesthetic choice to have the wings on the arm (also the fact that Vortex, Blades and Divebomb all form arms, so it's kind of the default that a flyer goes up high).
Also Strafe, Blast-Off, and Wildfly. But, that's why I like Cutthroat as a leg. It makes Abominus seem just a ittle bit wronger. I think Cutthroat's hinge was to make the bird mode look a bit better,
Brendocon 2.0 wrote:There's not even any real variety or inventiveness in the designs. Arm mode is the robot mode with the head peg pulled forward. Leg mode is the robot mode with the legs slid up.
Do both, and you have gun mode. I never thought about it before, but you could use just about any G1 Scramble City limb as a gun if you had a Seacon barrel to plug into the hole and gestalt hand to hold him.

The Sinnertwin comparison Clay posted reminds me of Animated Sentinel Prime's chest, which looks like a stretched, stylized version of his car hood. All the details are there, in roughly the same orientation, but moved around a bit to fit the different shape.

As for size, the G1 cartoon showed the torso-bots as slightly larger than the limbs, but the difference wasn't as much as on the toys. The torsos need to be a little larger than the limbs, or you get a poorly proportioned gestalt, like BH Abominus. But, in G1 SC toys, the torsos were too much larger than the limbs, so the gestalts didn't tower over the torsos as much as they should've.
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Post by numbat »

Clay wrote:I can do this for the rest of the group if you want?
Yes please! I only say because that was so well done, and quite interesting. I don't really care if they're 100% G1 toy accurate detail wise in robot mode. I'm only really mildly interested in the Terrorcons, although must say that looks pretty cool. I would be interested in the Seacons done well - I loved them in the comics as a kid but have never even been in the same room as the toys.
Clay wrote:And Feral Rex is ****ing awesome. First choice, and can recommend without hesitation. :)
I second that! Thanks for the recommendation Clay - Feral Rex is probably my second favourite 'Transformer'. So well done, great to display in any mode, and intuitive and simple enough to play around with regularly.

New sale thread added with a range of Transformers including Masterpiece, Botcon, CHUG, RID, Movies etc.

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Check out my new sale thread now!

Also items on eBay.
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Denyer
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Post by Denyer »

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Post by Denyer »

More on 3P retailing from Morg --

http://masterforceuk.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... m-and.html

edit:

And did mean to mention that Andy's having another bit of a clear out --

http://www.kapowtoys.co.uk/sale.html

Was tempted by the GCreations Growl (Snarl) as it looked great in the metallic red IRL but reports of QC aren't good. Maybe if they're still there in a week or two.
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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 »

Right, despite UPS being massive massive dicks (to the degree that they make Amazon Logistics look competent) I finally have my X-Transbots Apollyon.
Denyer wrote:Slap a big 'Con logo on it, and it's a nice display piece I have no real intention of transforming. Happy with for the "at cost" price Masterforce were doing the first run at. Corners have been cut on the packaging in a way that makes it feel a bit cheap... but there are a lot of accessories if that's of interest, and pricing's less than the UK release of Soundwave. It looks much better than the official MP and may well have convinced TT it isn't worth doing another official one.
Well he looks absolutely glorious. Good tight joints, and a lot sturdier than I expected after my experience with XTB's Huffer/Pipes. The inner leg kibble could probably do with pegging into something securely, while I'm not entirely sold on the panel that the fusion cannon clips into, but so far those are the only things I'd flag as issues, which - considering my expectations were low - is a resounding success.

My fingers did end up covered in flakes of metallic silver paint while I was trying to get the sellotape off the little baggy on his gun barrel, but from the looks of it the paint was actually on the bag/tape. I can't see anywhere else it may have come from. So that's weird.

I've got no intention whatsoever of transforming him, so if there are any other problems hiding away I doubt I'll find them. Y'know, unless random parts of him start oxidising like Takara's version did. He's pretty much everything I'd want from a robot mode MP Megs. Very happy.

(Also FansToys Sever in the same package. Gurgle.)
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Tetsuro
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Post by Tetsuro »

Rack 'n Ruin wrote:I have used iOffer (to get KO Shockwave, Sunstreaker, Mirage, and Wheeljack). Found it relatively painless to use. Just try to find which offers have been accepted for the item(s) you are after, and offer something in that region. The seller will likely make a counter-offer, but they should accept the same offer they have done previously. Most of the stuff I got was excellent quality. Sunstreaker had some dodgy paintwork though (nothing I couldn't touch up and live with).
Thanks. I understand the decals are terrible, but that's nothing reprolabels can't fix.

How's Shockwave btw? Some reviewers say his arms and subsequently his gun mode is floppy, is that something you can fix with a screwdriver or squarely in the territory of "serves you right for buying a KO"?
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Post by Rack 'n Ruin »

Tetsuro wrote:Thanks. I understand the decals are terrible, but that's nothing reprolabels can't fix.

How's Shockwave btw? Some reviewers say his arms and subsequently his gun mode is floppy, is that something you can fix with a screwdriver or squarely in the territory of "serves you right for buying a KO"?
No issues with the arms on mine. I think the legs may have been a little loose, but it's all good now. Nearest I'll ever get to a minty fresh G1 Shockers. Very happy with my purchase. :)
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praetorian
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Post by praetorian »

Don't know if this is the right place to post this question, but here goes: what was the first third-party Transformer?
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Warcry
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Post by Warcry »

Not an easy question! The answer probably depends on what you consider a third-party toy, and what you consider accessories for or "derivatives" of official toys.

My memory is a little fuzzy, but assuming we're talking about a mass-produced 100% new-mold figure, I think it was either Warbot Defender or the Blast Off/Swindle set for Energon Bruticus. They were definitely the first examples to make a big splash in the fandom. There were third-party add-on kits before that (City Commander and that Classics Cliffjumper upgrade were out before then, weren't they?), and I think we might have seen some quasi-KOs too (the iGear-modified Seekers were an early hit before MP-11 came out). But I think those three were the first actual self-contained toys to hit market.
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Post by Clay »

Fittingly enough, the JustItToys world's smallest dinobots predate everything else by a couple of years. They started coming out in 2005 or 2006.
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Warcry
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Post by Warcry »

Clay wrote:Fittingly enough, the JustItToys world's smallest dinobots predate everything else by a couple of years. They started coming out in 2005 or 2006.
I totally forgot about those! I'm not sure I'd count them as real "third-party toys" in the sense that we usually discuss them, though. Aren't they just downsized, simplified versions of official figures? Stuff like that's been floating around forever, and if we count them we'd probably also have to talk about stuff like the mini Fort Max KOs that have been making the rounds for well over a decade.
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