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Warcry
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Post by Warcry » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:16 am

Ooooh, that's a pretty Barricade...

I wish I'd paid attention to Bumblebee so I'd know what price to expect.

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Clay
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Warcry
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Post by Warcry » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:50 pm

Dammit that looks awful. That beast mode is just unacceptable for a Masterpiece. 800 moving panels and I can still see the robot through it in every shot.

$260 saved, I guess. :(

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Tantrum
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Post by Tantrum » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Warcry, you fail to appreciate the true genius of the design. Trying to line up the 800 moving panels will be such a pain, that nobody will try to put this thing into dino mode more than once. Since nobody will use the dino mode, it's OK if it looks like crap.

The bot mode looks great. It's like the designers wanted to make a Dinobot Action Master, but couldn't get that approved by corporate, and added the alt mode out of spite.

The dino head sculpt is the only thing about the alt mode that's any good. Maybe he'd look OK in the back of a display, with several shorter figure in front of him obscuring his torso, looking out menacingly over their heads.
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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:22 pm

That looks great. Okay it's panelly as **** but I think it's the best we're gonna get and compared to previous Dinobots it's pretty much perfect.

The robot mode looks awesome and almost makes me regret selling Cheetor. But then I remember Cheetor was bad so it even itself out.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:20 pm

Brendocon 2.0 wrote:Anything
Yay!

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Warcry
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Post by Warcry » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:43 am

Tantrum wrote:Warcry, you fail to appreciate the true genius of the design. Trying to line up the 800 moving panels will be such a pain, that nobody will try to put this thing into dino mode more than once. Since nobody will use the dino mode, it's OK if it looks like crap.
BRILLIANT!

The robot is pretty spot on, I have to admit. But I feel the same about this as I did the MP36 Megs -- what's the attraction in a $200+ Transformer that I'd never want to transform? Cheetor was disappointment enough at $60.

Maybe if this line goes on long enough they'll eventually make an MP figure of Dinobot's honestly much cooler TM2 body? In the meantime, I could take the money this would have cost and buy, like, 15 actually good 90s BW toys
Brendocon 2.0 wrote:That looks great. Okay it's panelly as **** but I think it's the best we're gonna get and compared to previous Dinobots it's pretty much perfect.
You know who else was "the best we're gonna get"? Cheetor. :(

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Skyquake87
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Post by Skyquake87 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:17 am

Well that's turned out as well as could be expected, given that Dinobot's CGI model took way more liberties with the toy design than any of the other characters by essentially jettisoning the alt mode and any hint of what he turns into. A difficult ask in toy form! Again, perhaps this would have worked out a little better by the Masterpiece line not trying to mimic animation models and just actually trying to be the best possible version of a character. If they ever do the Predacons, I'm really not looking forward to an MP version of Tarantulas in his original form. Ugh.

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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:42 am

Cliffjumper wrote:Yay!
Yes I am still alive.

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Clay
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Post by Clay » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:56 am

Tantrum wrote:Warcry, you fail to appreciate the true genius of the design. Trying to line up the 800 moving panels will be such a pain, that nobody will try to put this thing into dino mode more than once. Since nobody will use the dino mode, it's OK if it looks like crap.
Warcry wrote:BRILLIANT!

The robot is pretty spot on, I have to admit. But I feel the same about this as I did the MP36 Megs -- what's the attraction in a $200+ Transformer that I'd never want to transform? Cheetor was disappointment enough at $60.
I think you're both right. That they managed to get the raptor to turn into Dinobot's animation model should be appreciated, but also that end result is all gaps and panels shouldn't be overlooked when considering whether you want to pay money for it.

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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:01 am

Yeah, there's a massive difference between "that's probably the best we'll get, so I can live with it" and "it's okay if it looks like crap because it's a difficult design so whatever".

The latter is basically inviting HasTak to treat the consumer like shit because we'll buy it anyway.

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Post by Tetsuro » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:18 pm

It's kind of a dick move; by raising the prices you're left with the choice of either voting with your wallet and risking them just not making anything instead of selling their shit at a more acceptable price point, or just buying it anyway and essentially letting them get away with it.

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Skyquake87
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Post by Skyquake87 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:16 pm

...Or waiting until the price drops. Which is what I did for Primal and Artfire. I think I'd take a punt on this. But not at that price.

The comments in that link perhaps say it all though 'why buy official when the bootlegs are good?'

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Post by Tantrum » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:28 am

An unimpressive figure of a favorite character might get me to pay regular retail for "the best we're gonna get", but not several times that for a high-end collector's piece. Then again, if this were a CHUG Dinobot, they might feel less obligated to match the animation model, like with CHUG Grimock and Mirage. Then yet again, I passed on CHUG Grimlock and Mirage since they didn't match the original designs.
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Tetsuro
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Post by Tetsuro » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:45 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:...Or waiting until the price drops.
Or that, yes. I keep forgetting there's more than one outlet to buy them from. :p

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Clay
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Post by Clay » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:29 pm

I think it looks fine, but not $250 fine.

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Warcry
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Post by Warcry » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:02 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:Well that's turned out as well as could be expected, given that Dinobot's CGI model took way more liberties with the toy design than any of the other characters by essentially jettisoning the alt mode and any hint of what he turns into. A difficult ask in toy form! Again, perhaps this would have worked out a little better by the Masterpiece line not trying to mimic animation models and just actually trying to be the best possible version of a character. If they ever do the Predacons, I'm really not looking forward to an MP version of Tarantulas in his original form. Ugh.
I honestly think that the difficulty in translating Dinobot's character design to a toy is overstated. His CGI model really isn't any more different from the original toy than a lot of his first-season counterparts. The Masterpiece even seems to basically transform the same as the original, save for the fake chest -- the dino legs become the robot arms, the robot legs tuck into the beast's torso and the entire rear third of the beast mode just gets set aside to turn into a giant "weapon" (which is the main reason why he doesn't look much like he turns into a raptor). The only beast kibble that the original toy had that this one doesn't are his tiny little dino arms. It was a challenge for sure, but nowhere near the challenge that something like G1 Megatron presented. It was really just a matter of cramming all the details in (rather than picking and choosing the most important like the old Universe/Henkei figure).

I do agree that aiming for 100% animation model accuracy hurt the figure, though. Or I guess more to the point, 100% animation accuracy in robot mode. No Transformer figure is ever going to be perfect in all facets and there are always going to be compromises somewhere along the line, but Dinobot (like a lot of recent MPs) focuses on making the robot as perfect as can be at the expense of the alternate mode and the transformation. I know some people prefer it that way, but for me that really hurts the one aspect that makes Transformers so much more fun than your standard action figure. I'd much rather have an 80% accurate robot that turns into an 80% accurate raptor with a straightforward, intuitive transformation than a 100% accurate robot that turns into a raptor-shaped pile of debris with a transformation that seems to consist of lining up 7,000 tiny, fragile moving parts.
Brendocon 2.0 wrote:Yeah, there's a massive difference between "that's probably the best we'll get, so I can live with it" and "it's okay if it looks like crap because it's a difficult design so whatever".
I honestly don't see the distinction. In either case you wind up paying premium prices for an inferior product.

Like Tantrum alluded to, we're not talking about a mass-retail Generations figure here. A figure that does some things really well but has massive flaws elsewhere is a lot easier to swallow when you're only paying $20ish for it. But a figure with an MSRP of $250 should be really close to perfect, and if the engineers can't pull that off for a given character or design then they should set it aside for later instead of releasing something substandard.
Skyquake87 wrote:The comments in that link perhaps say it all though 'why buy official when the bootlegs are good?'
Honestly can't disagree with that sentiment, though. The price hikes that we're seeing for official MP products (from both Hasbro and Takara) have done a whole lot to erode the line's goodwill. Saving $10 on a bootleg MP car was one thing, but when you can get bootlegs of the new MP Megatron for less than half of MSRP, that's a problem. Likewise when Takara's offerings cost as much or more than comparable third-party alternatives (which, considering Takara's economies of scale, should never happen). It seems to be pushing a lot more people to unofficial channels.
Tantrum wrote:An unimpressive figure of a favorite character might get me to pay regular retail for "the best we're gonna get", but not several times that for a high-end collector's piece. Then again, if this were a CHUG Dinobot, they might feel less obligated to match the animation model, like with CHUG Grimock and Mirage. Then yet again, I passed on CHUG Grimlock and Mirage since they didn't match the original designs.
It's a lot easier to roll the dice on something that isn't going to cost as much as a month's worth of groceries, that's for sure.

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Brendocon 2.0
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Post by Brendocon 2.0 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:10 pm

Warcry wrote:I honestly don't see the distinction. In either case you wind up paying premium prices for an inferior product.
If you don't see the difference between the attitudes of "this isn't ideal, but it's within acceptable parameters and I'm not sure it could be done better" and "I think this is a sack of crap but what the hell, toys are difficult to make so please take my money" then I'm not going to try and explain it any further.

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Warcry
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Post by Warcry » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:05 pm

I absolutely see the difference! Quote #1 is what people tell themselves so they don't have to admit that they're actually behaving like Quote #2. :glance:

But honestly, for the price they're asking I just don't think that "I'm not sure it could be done better" is good enough. For a $250 MSRP we should be talking about one of the best Transformers ever, full stop, no reservations or hedging. Anything less than that (like, say, a one-mode wonder that people will actively avoid transforming into its Panelsaurus mode) should be unacceptable considering the price they're asking.

I understand the desire for a good Dinobot toy, because he's a great character who's never had a figure that was better than meh. And the MP is definitely better than either the original or the Universe toy. But buying this at anything close to MSRP will only send the message that mediocrity is good enough, even at this price tag.

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