Some more WWE questions

Silly Cow · Post by **Silly Cow** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:16 am

I'm a newbie when it comes to wrestling, I admit. These are mainly questions that have come to mind after seeing my recently acquired WWE DVDs.

1. What was up with Undertaker, Paul Bearer and the urn.
And frankly what was up with Paul Bearer. I know he was supposed to be Kane's (and Undertaker's?) father. When did he disappear and why?

2. During the Invasion, it seemed to be pretty much WWF = face Alliance = heel. Were there exceptions any to this rule?
And about Austin and Angle after Survivor Series. Angle was still heel even though he 'saved' the WWf and Austin was super-face even though he was the Alliance leader. Were they just so strong characters that ppl kept their opinion?

3. And still about Invasion. Why was it so bad? When I first started to see Smackdown it was in the middle of Invasion, so I really didn't know any better.

Those are the ones that come to mind at the moment.

Zath · Post by **Zath** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:56 pm

1) Paul Bearer left the WWE to care for his wife, she had cancer if Iremember right. I dont remember exactly when he left.

2) RVD was pretty much a face in the Alliance, his mini-feud with Austin was pretty good. The turns for Angle and austin didnt quite work like the WWE planned. Angle still had heel heat and Austin had a hard time not getting face pops.

3) Blame the failure of the Invasion Angle on the writers. They royally screwed it up by not giving some of the WCW guys the spotlight, which made for pretty much a 1 sided feud. And pretty much making the focus on Austin was a very bad choice.

Starscreamsghost · Post by **Starscreamsghost** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:25 pm

Most of it seemed to come down to the fact that the writers were either afraid of or opposed to the idea of WCW and ECW guys leading their own crusade. They didn't have enough respect for somebody like Booker T to lead the charge on his own, so they had to just randomly hand them a top WWF guy (Austin) to give the group credibility.

Bah, when people look back on wrestling history, November 2001-November 2002 will forever be remembered as the year where everything went completely insane....I'd say we've JUST NOW (with Triple H's establishment of the RAW world title and its unification with the IC, Hardcore and European Titles) hit the point of stability, in the last two months.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:43 pm

It's not much of an invasion when the bulk of the "strangers" were on the books beforehand. That's no different to defections to a stable.

None of the Alliance members were put over. Think how much heat DDP would have gotten if he'd injured the Undertaker at King of the Ring. But no, instead the first WCW wrestler to have a major WWF ppv segment was turned into Undi's personal bitch.

A group of midcard defectors is hardly a threat. Partially blamable on Vince for not backing the angle up with money. The fact they had to merge ECW and WCW to come up with an opposition is an example.

Good Invasion:

WCW - led by Bischoff, comprising Nash, Steiner, Goldberg, Booker & DDP

What we got - ECWCW, led by Shane & Steph, comprising Booker, DDP, Rhyno and the Dudley Boyz

Wrestlers made to look like jobbers by the Undertaker
DDP, Kanyon, O'Haire, Palumbo, Booker T, Kronic (okay, I'll give you that one)

The Invasion storyline could have been better if some of the Alliance members had gone over sometimes (not just Austin). The only person Undi put over was himself.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:44 pm

The Invasion was one of deals that everyone wanted to see but they droped the ball right of the bat!

First Mistake: WCW Title matches on WWE shows!
I can understand why WWE fans booed Booker T and Buff Bagwell the first time they appered (I'm a BIG TIME WCW fan btw) if the roles were reversed and WCW bought out the WWF I wouldn't want to see SCSA vs Kurt Angle for the WWF World Championship on Nitro that was (and still is) just plain stupid. Tickets for the shows are expenive as hell and the WWF/E fans payed money to see WWF/E Superstars and WWF/E title matches.

Second mistake: Where were the big names like Ric Flair,Sting, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Hulk Hogan, Sid Vicious, The Steiners Bothers, and Eric Biscoff at durning the Invasion at?
I mean other than DDP and Booker T the rest were pretty much jobbers.

Third Mistake: Putting ECW into the mix they weren't needed at
the time.

Fourth Mistake: Where the hell was Vince McMachon at? Shortly after the Rock's return Vince disappears and doesn't show up until
after Regal defects.

Fifth Mistake: Paul Heyman as JR's partner these two didn't click and made a lot matches hard to listen to because they were screaming at each other.

Sixth Mistake: This is the biggest mistake one made for the whole Invasion angle! Disrespecting the WCW and ECW fans. Case in point Shortly before the Invasion began Shane was at WWF In Times Squre(Now called'The World") and the fans were chanting "WCW! WCW! WCW"
Hell even JR made remark about it! This meant that there were WCW fans who were ready to root for there side.
This didn't sit well with someone on WWF's writing staff so they came up with ths bit.
Durning the Invasion ppv (I think it was the Invasion ppv although I could be wrong) Hardcore Holly was at The World signing autographs when a fan in WCW T-Shirt came up for an autograph. The fan was nice when Holly saw he was wearing a
WCW shirt he tore the guy's shirt off and threw him out of the The World! Now I know this was staged and was trying to put Holly over as WWF "face" and the Alliance over as "heels".
Personally I think was telling the fans of the real WCW that you not welcome here!

Extreme_Kup · Post by **Extreme_Kup** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:30 am

reasons why hogan wasnt in the invasion angle is he was in the xpw or xwf or something fed that he made called extreme something wrestling that I dunno what the hell is the real name of it!

And Hall and Nash's contract with warner were to expire by december 2001 or november 2001 so they didnt have a time to join the WWE to join the alliance

Goldbwerg has the same reason like Hall and Nash

Flair...I dunno.........i really dunno

Scotty Steinere was in the WWA at that time

Rick where the hell was he anyways

Sid....has a quad like Nash, end of story.

Yeah its rigth that it was a bad idea to let the alliance all into heels.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:50 am

Originally posted by Extreme_Kup
And Hall and Nash's contract with warner were to expire by december 2001 or november 2001 so they didnt have a time to join the WWE to join the alliance

Goldbwerg has the same reason like Hall and Nash

Scotty Steinere was in the WWA at that time

Not quite.

WWFE actually bought out the contracts of the guys like Helms, O'Haire, Palumbo, Booker, Page, etc, but chose not to buy out the contracts of the others, plus Nash, Hall and Goldberg weren't willing to sell themselves short. They knew they'd be worth more to the WWF if the Invasion angle flopped.

And Steiner only went to the WWA after the WWF didn't sign him (due to his drop-foot)

Extreme_Kup · Post by **Extreme_Kup** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 2:38 pm

oh..I see now. well thats cleared up now.

So did I get Hogan's reason right?

The uiltmate prime fan · Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:47 pm

okay, i just have to say this: i know the invasion would have benefited from it, but would you REALLY have wanted to see bill goldberg in the WWF?. the man has no respect for the buisness, he injures anyone he gets in the ring with, all he can do is three moves well, and if he had gotten in, the WWF would have just made him look lite a B*tch anyway. face it, vince used it as an excuse to gloat and get revenge on WCW. if bischoff and the others had been a part of it, the same result would have occured. as long as vince and the others refuse to admit that WCW did some things better, the invasion was doomed to fail. the whole thing was basicly and ego F**K for the mcmahons.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:46 am

Originally posted by The uiltmate prime fan
okay, i just have to say this: i know the invasion would have benefited from it, but would you REALLY have wanted to see bill goldberg in the WWF?. the man has no respect for the buisness, he injures anyone he gets in the ring with, all he can do is three moves well, and if he had gotten in, the WWF would have just made him look lite a B*tch anyway. face it, vince used it as an excuse to gloat and get revenge on WCW. if bischoff and the others had been a part of it, the same result would have occured. as long as vince and the others refuse to admit that WCW did some things better, the invasion was doomed to fail. the whole thing was basicly and ego F**K for the mcmahons.

Do I want to see Bill Goldberg in WWE ?
two words:
HELL YES!!
The top three WCW/WWE dream matches of all time to me are:
Goldberg vs Stone Cold
Goldberg vs The Rock
Goldberg vs Triple H
Goldberg only injured one man and that was Bret Hart and it was an ACCIDENT As far him knowing only three moves well Kevin Nash knows only three moves and moves like s**t but that doesn't stop him. Go rent Halloween Havoc 1997 and see what I'm talking about one of the best matches of all time is Goldberg vs DDP.

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:07 am

Originally posted by Cyberstrike nTo
Go rent Halloween Havoc 1997 and see what I'm talking about one of the best matches of all time is Goldberg vs DDP.

I'm assuming you are refering to the match and not Nash when you say that, and if you are refering to the match, that match is on Halloween Havoc 1998 not 97.

Starscreamsghost · Post by **Starscreamsghost** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:53 pm

Goldberg knows as many moves as at least a few of the WWE's top-tier guys (Rock, Flair, Austin, etc.), but at the same time, his matches in WCW weren't very.....good. At all. I downloaded a supposedly big PPV match between Goldberg and Sting the other day, and just like every other WCW match I've seen, the match is just....boring. Say what you will about the quality of WCW's storylines, but the bottom line is that their actual wrestling product is FAR outclassed by WWE's. Go back and watch a WCW PPV....they're boring beyond all description. A given Smackdown! has more exciting moments than a month's worth of WCW stuff.

This isn't to say that Goldberg wouldn't fit in with WWE. He might. Some guys have come over from WCW and done well (Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Rey, etc.). But I get the feeling the WWE would send him more the way of Tazz than Y2J, if you know what I mean.

And speaking of which...where the hell IS Sting?

Unicron · Post by **Unicron** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:33 pm

Originally posted by Starscreamsghost
And speaking of which...where the hell IS Sting?

I could be wrong but I think Sting retired when WCW was bought out

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:59 pm

Sting will be wrestling on the WWA's upcoming tour of England, along with Luger and many more.

Starscreamsghost · Post by **Starscreamsghost** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:16 am

Who of note is in WWA? And where is WWA based?

And who are the key guys in NWA-TNA? Only people I can remember are Jeff Jarrett, Scott Hall, Ken Shamrock, and the guy who used to be The Wall in WCW.

Unicron · Post by **Unicron** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:42 am

Originally posted by grimlock
Sting will be wrestling on the WWA's upcoming tour of England, along with Luger and many more.

That'll teach me to keep better track of things

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:03 am

Originally posted by Starscreamsghost
Who of note is in WWA? And where is WWA based?

And who are the key guys in NWA-TNA? Only people I can remember are Jeff Jarrett, Scott Hall, Ken Shamrock, and the guy who used to be The Wall in WCW.

Well, the SATs are quite excellent, and the Flying Elvises are a damn good trio too. They had quite an impressive match on the latest TNA video.

Incidentally, Amazing Red of the SATs was the first person (and only person) I've seen performing the standing shooting star press (or Sixshooter, to you AWF fans out there).

-Ss

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:11 am

Originally posted by Starscreamsghost
Who of note is in WWA? And where is WWA based?

And who are the key guys in NWA-TNA? Only people I can remember are Jeff Jarrett, Scott Hall, Ken Shamrock, and the guy who used to be The Wall in WCW.

http://www.worldwrestlingallstars.com/

It's run by Jeremy Borash and promoted by Australian promoter Andrew McManus. It features a lot of the old WCW talent that hasn't signed with WWE. It has done PPV's in Sydney, Las Vegas and Melbourne and does house shows all over the world but it's basically based in the US.

Shamrock took leave from NWA-TNA to train for his match against Tito Ortiz on November 22nd, and now Australia gets UFC on PPV so I am definatly going to order it. Other people it features is AJ Styles, Ron Killings (K-Kwick/K-Krush), Brain Lawler (Brain Christopher/Grandmasta Sexay), Jerry Lynn, Curt Hennig, Kid Kash, Tony Mamaluke, Syxx-Pac (X-Pac)

Originally posted by Sixswitch
Well, the SATs are quite excellent, and the Flying Elvises are a damn good trio too. They had quite an impressive match on the latest TNA video.

Incidentally, Amazing Red of the SATs was the first person (and only person) I've seen performing the standing shooting star press

Are the SAT from NWA-TNA the same ones from CZW? And if they are, are they still using the Spanish Fly as a finisher? God that move owns.

Also regarding that standing shooting star press, do you mean standing on the canvas, or standing on the turnbuckle executing the move on someone standing.

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 9:42 am

Originally posted by grimlock

Are the SAT from NWA-TNA the same ones from CZW? And if they are, are they still using the Spanish Fly as a finisher? God that move owns.

Also regarding that standing shooting star press, do you mean standing on the canvas, or standing on the turnbuckle executing the move on someone standing.

They serpently are. Best match I ever saw was at Stretched in Smyrna, The Briscoe Brothers and Ric Blade vs the SATs.

And it's done standing on the canvas. Very impressive.

-Ss

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 10:05 am

Originally posted by Sixswitch
And it's done standing on the canvas. Very impressive.

Yeah I'v seen a few indy circuit guys pull it off, it does look sweet, I'v also seen a heap of backyard guys screw it all lol, I love watching backyard wrestling, they do the craziest stuff lol.