Why the Christian God is Impossible

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:28 am

Get off your high horse already. If you want actual flaming, that can be arranged. If you'd rather cry like a baby and say people are flaming you for disagreeing then hit the bricks.

Post by **Hound** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:37 am

Originally posted by Tempest
Your alive because you had the strength and will to, along with the help of science.

If it was god's will to test you, then you succeeded. He didn't help you, you did.

I don't hate god, it's the fanclub I can't stand.

Wow, that was pretty cool. That last part's almost sig worthy...

I'm not going to knock anyone elses belief in god. To me you can believe whatever you want to. I'm fine with that. It's when you start forcing those beliefs on everyone else or start endorsing those who do or legislature that does that I have a problem with you.

Galvatron91 · Post by **Galvatron91** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:39 am

Originally posted by Tempest
Your alive because you had the strength and will to, along with the help of science.

I'm not even talking about the cancer, I'm talking about something long before that. It's far too long a story for me to get into right now, but needless to say, it provided me with all the evidence I needed to know that there is a God. I don't get into all this namby pamby crap, even though I'm a Christian...so many of them make the whole lot of us look bad.

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:44 am

Originally posted by Galvatron91
I'm alive...I should be dead...this is all the proof I need that God does exist. You people can piss off...stop your bickering.

I think you've hit it right on the nose.

A few of the arguments from the inital posts were based on misconceptions and assumptions, but I couldn't really put it into words as to what to say about it. That being said, I say you hit it right on the nose because God is one, who cannot be proven by concrete thinking. Rather, He has to be experienced. We could debate all day about whether or not he exist, and it would get us nowhere. The only way one can ever be truly convinced is that some time in their life, they have personally experienced Him.

Tempest · Post by **Tempest** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:27 am

A believe in a god, just not a christian god. I believe he created everything and everyone through the big bang. The original big bang that started it all. He might of played a helping hand in our creation or we were just some form of fate that exsists for whatever reasons.

He continues to exsist, but not as a holy symbol that is supposed to consume our daily lives. He wants us to live and be free, hence the reason I don't go to church, yet I'm Roman Catholic and say a pray everytime before I eat. I also do it out of the respect of my farther who has raised me and he asks me to and I do so. You can live you lives the way you want.

The bible is just storys and examples, you don't have to live by them, you live the way you live. If we follow everything to the letter you it go disaterous. Look at Transformers, simple mistakes can cause annoy the **** out of people who go overboard.

I think Stigmata did it best about god.

"kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there."

God is a god yes, yet we are made in his image. He doesn't have to be a perfect bieng, he could of been human and created something he didn't understand. Our flaws are his flaws, god created us supposedly, yet he can not control us because we are indiviuals.

Plasmodium · Post by **Plasmodium** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:15 am

Years ago they thought the Earth was flat
Years ago they thought the Earth was the center of the Universe
Years ago they thought that illness was due to posession
Years ago they thought that Kings were in direct contact with 'god'
Years ago the bible was written.

This can go both ways. Our knowledge was limited then and people came up with wild ideas which would later be disproved. If you look at it along a continuum, as if the current time is merely a small shift over it, we are no different then they were, in our lack of knowledge of what can be considered true. For this reason it is reasonable to assume that there are levels of information we are not even close to attaining, and thus no one can really state whether or not a true 'god' really exists yet(at least the Christian one).

However I choose the other side of the coin in that I believe the bible was just written as a controller for the masses to establish 'laws' that would not exist yet for years. To them, with their lack of knowledge and science, the most common and unremarkable things to us were conceived of as otherworldy and thought to be produced by some higher being, leading them to believe in some super being.

Galvatron91 · Post by **Galvatron91** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:51 pm

Why do we have to make distinctions on God? This is why religion pisses me off so much. They all agree that It is the creator, then piss on each other about the details. WHO CARES? Should the point not be that God set forth the process of creation, made adaptations along the way, and loves us? Isn't that the point? Yet nothing in society is more dangerous than a religion. I don't attend services and I probably won't go to church even on Easter, but I'm still a Christian. What makes me a Christian? I try to follow in Christ's example...treat others fairly, give of myself onto other...sure I **** up from time to time, but I really try to help out those around me...that is what Christ taught...all these twats that run around saying "Gays are bad" and "abortion is evil" or whatever nonsense they are prattling on about have missed the entire point of what Jesus taught us...and one more thing...Jesus is not, NOR COULD HE EVER BE Republican...Jesus is the original communist if I have ever seen one.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:57 pm

Because they can't get laid? I see this pattern alot in subcultures. Who started rock and roll? Who was the first punk band? Who really cares?

Galvatron91 · Post by **Galvatron91** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:53 am

Originally posted by Ultimate Weapon
Because they can't get laid?

That actually is the cause of more social problems than people realize...

Axe · Post by **Axe** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:37 am

Originally posted by Trollking

quote:
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"Knowledge is not a series of self consistent theories that converges towards an ideal view; it is rather an ever increasing ocean of mutually incompatible (and perhaps even incommensurable) alternatives, each single theory, each fairy tale, each myth"
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-Paul Freyerabrend

quote:
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"It is the theory that decides what can be observed"
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- Albert Einstien

Hmm, a fellow Phil-o-science-er.

Kuhn's idea was great: "perhaps all Physicists' axioms will turn out to be wrong in their foundations (as wrong as Aristotle's geo-centrality axiom), throughout the future. But one has to beware, revolutions in Physics are very very rare.

Heh, I was kinda owned by Kaku (Hyperspace). While I was reading the book I simply couldnt see how a better set of axioms might oust this: I was pondering what wild interactions the strings were undergoing as I watched Braveheart.

Strings in the air, strings in the mist.
Strings in Mel's hair, strings in his fist.
k, I tried my hand at poetry

The effect of this on me: hello ""theory of everything" is out there for humans to get" plausibility, see you later "their exists a better set of axioms for any theory a human might come across" plausibility.

Anyway, Trollking, stay away from the Kuhn-ish Sociologists. They've taken Kuhn's idea towards madness. Remember the Sokal (sp?) hoax. He showed those guys can be bad scholars (they wanted a Physicist on their side so bad, they published the garbage he wrote without verifying it).

Originally posted by Plasmodium

For this reason it is reasonable to assume that there are levels of information we are not even close to attaining, and thus no one can really state whether or not a true 'god' really exists yet(at least the Christian one).

Originally posted by RID Scourge

The only way one can ever be truly convinced is that some time in their life, they have personally experienced Him.

I feel that anyone of good faith (doer of righteousness/good, servant of his Creator) started out with "whoever "created nature" is unimaginably grand". Then they got flattened by the subtlest of events and took it to be clear proof from their Lord.

For example, my mom (a doctor) told me a long time ago about someone (I think some surgeon, and maybe others too) converted to Islam simply due to the following lines:

096.001
Iqra/ bi-ismi rabbika allathee khalaqa
Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

096.002
Khalaqa al-insana min AAalaqin
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

096.003
Iqra/ warabbuka al-akramu
Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

096.004
Allathee AAallama bialqalami
He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-

096.005
AAallama al-insana ma lam yaAAlam
Taught man that which he knew not.

Now the word alaq (end of second verse) meant not just clot, but "clinging clot" in Arabic. I havent really bothered as to how concretely this indeed meant "clinging clot"; so as always, its easy to overlook the coincidence and say: maybe its a far off meaning, the clingingness, maybe the meaning was introduced later, or even deliberately in modern times.

However, that certain person, he thought: how did Mohammad (PBUH), a man from the 700s nail it right on the head by using that word: that's what happens after fertalization, the embryo (sp?) clings to the wall.

Everything just clicked for this person (my interpretation): certainly its a marvel that Quran works like Homer's works in a certain sense: it inflames people, but to think that it speaks of many truths yet to be verified as well!

Surprise! Real auidio link to Surah 96 (Arabic + English) (dunno Arabic but rub= lord, khalaq = create, insaan = human):
http://quran.islamway.com/Etranslation/096.ram

For myself, my best reason that I can bring forth I guess, for beliving in Mohammad PBUH is that I feel he surpasses Socrates. I mean one has to ask, why was it that Socrates and his students would mark the first grand occasion when man started to use reason? And here and there, one of his students or he himself pops up (Psychology, Political Science, Mathematics) and I for one cant help but recall the feel of reading one of his, lets say heart warming quotes at times (I havent really read much, cept seen a documentary). Crito, I owe a cock...

Quote:
(source)

And he felt them himself, and said: When the poison reaches the heart, that will be the end. He was beginning to grow cold about the groin, when he uncovered his face, for he had covered himself up, and said (they were his last words)-he said: Crito, I owe a cock to Asclepius; will you remember to pay the debt? The debt shall be paid, said Crito; is there anything else? There was no answer to this question; but in a minute or two a movement was heard, and the attendants uncovered him; his eyes were set, and Crito closed his eyes and mouth.

In the prophet's time, he was regarded as "the truthful, the trustworthy" even by his sworn enemies (they used to come to him for just judgement over matters of dispute). The early Islamic civilization (which rediscovered Greek material for itself, and for the West too I believe) grew from a people who before him used to do injustices such as female infanticide (on account of the disgrace/burden of raising the weaker sex).

Originally posted by Tempest

I don't hate god, it's the fanclub I can't stand.

Some people have it right. They dare not depict even the Prophet's companions on film (though a non-utterlycruel person must agree that its okay to do so for the sake of those who havent already read much about them). And, yet there exists a big problem among many others. There are numerous compilations of sayings of the Prophet (sayings are separate from Quranic verses), that contian maligned stuff.

Its a great fault, I believe, to take some far off compilations on equal parr with the Quran. For example, I was with a Muslim who whole heartedly belived in this saying (not exactly):

"If you listen to music, you earn molten lead to be poured in your ears on the Day of Judgement".

There isnt a single mention about music in the Quran, while it considers it important enough to say this:

When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things. 4:86

The thing about Islam, as I believe it, is that the Quran is pure, one needs a little bit from the prophet's ways to perfrom prayer and a few other things, but the far off compilations are worthless (maligned by humans), certainly no excuse for a sevant of the Lord to waste time on when the Quran exists (the basic sayings are there too, to be weighted above the far off stuff).

*updated/edited*
Some Muslims (dont know the fraction, but the Taliban come to mind), I believe, find the bible to be worse than far off compilations Im afraid (as if "all" the compilations are protected by the Lord, and "all" the bibles are maligned).