DOCTOR WHO (2007): General Chat

Post by **Denyer** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:58 pm

Who said the Doctor was a virgin? The curse was to the genetic line, not something that turned Gallifreyans into Ken dolls.

In any case, the show writers only have bearing on the show canon. Who books have accumulated for themselves a larger canon than TV episodes, and generally with more regard to continuity. In the end it comes down to which stories people prefer, as with the multiple continuities, timelines and canons of TF fiction.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:10 pm

Originally posted by Denyer
Who said the Doctor was a virgin? The curse was to the genetic line, not something that turned Gallifreyans into Ken dolls.

Well, considering the whole thing seems to be for no other purpose than to try and rationalise the Doctor having a Granddaughter with the percived Asexuality of the character in latter years. Which just strikes me as rather pointless considering there are more straightforward ways of doing it that don't require convoluted backstory. i mean, no tries to claim Sherlock Holmes was cursed with sterility do they?

In any case, the show writers only have bearing on the show canon. Who books have accumulated for themselves a larger canon than TV episodes, and generally with more regard to continuity. In the end it comes down to which stories people prefer, as with the multiple continuities, timelines and canons of TF fiction.

True, I just feel good that the people making it at the moment agree with my Who worldview.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:13 pm

I've always loved the assumption that he has to be some sort of monastic asexual eunuch, which seems to be largely because he doesn't spend most episodes bending whatever dim slapper he's travelling with over the console and probing her vortex. The Doctor appreciates the finer things in life (well, apart from the Pertwee version, who enjoyed touching small children and being mates with Hitler), so obviously he'd enjoy sex with the right person...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:28 pm

Those people are also trying their best to ignore the fact that the 4th Doctor and Rommana II were blatently at it like rabbits in a not even subtle way. No wonder Adric didn't fit in.

BWW 2000 · Post by **BWW 2000** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:44 pm

Originally posted by Denyer
Who said the Doctor was a virgin? The curse was to the genetic line, not something that turned Gallifreyans into Ken dolls.

I thought that this was addressed in the classic series episode Image of the Ken Doll...

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:39 pm

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Those people are also trying their best to ignore the fact that the 4th Doctor and Rommana II were blatently at it like rabbits in a not even subtle way. No wonder Adric didn't fit in.

I always felt at time sThe Doctor was doing it with Sarah Jane Smith and Leela, causally like. It was clear the 3rd Doc was clearly gutted when Jo fell for another man and ot just in the "losinga friend" sense. He clearly thought they shoul be together. Finally the 1st Doc fell in love with an Inca woman.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:54 pm

Well, "Time Tots" must be canon to some extent. Or it could just have been Romana II's way of making a joke at the expense of the more stuffy aspects of Time Lord society. It pops up in Big Finish 95.5 "Urban Legends" as a comment made by one of the CIA, and the limited impression I have of the Agency is that they're not so bound by the archaic strata of Time Lord society, either.

As for the McGann "I'm half human" line..... Chalk it up to post-regenerative whimmy-whams, and the fact that when the Master came to that conclusion that there was "something human" about the Doctor, it was either because his body was still in somehting of a state of flux, or adapting to the plasma they probably gave him during the operation.

And is it beyond the realms of comprehension that the Doctor's wife and son(and/or daughter) are either dead or chose to reject him? He is a Renegade, after all, and it wouldn't surprise me if one's whole family would be stained by that. There's also the fact that the Doctor may well be capable of falling in love with a human, but won't go any farther because of not only age difference but the simple fact of outliving your potential mate. I can see it now. The 11th Doctor proudly states tht he's had over 42,000 children, and yet not a single one of them comes to visit him. We also should probably discount any on-screen affection between 4 and Romana II simply because Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were in love, and darn it, when you're that in love, it's just going to show through.

As for the First Doctor and Cameca..... I can't see it. Percieved affection used in such a way to attain the goals(the plans to the tunnels, best way to do it, make the Aztec woman think I love her), along with a slight misinterpretation of customs, as the look on the Doctor's face will attest to when she accepts his marriage proposal. Of all the Doctors, the First would still be closest to the Prydonian mindset.

Of course, if Russell is smart, he's just going to keep us guessing. All I want to know is if Susan is still alive.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:26 pm

Originally posted by Heinrad

And is it beyond the realms of comprehension that the Doctor's wife and son(and/or daughter) are either dead or chose to reject him? He is a Renegade, after all, and it wouldn't surprise me if one's whole family would be stained by that. There's also the fact that the Doctor may well be capable of falling in love with a human, but won't go any farther because of not only age difference but the simple fact of outliving your potential mate. I can see it now. The 11th Doctor proudly states tht he's had over 42,000 children, and yet not a single one of them comes to visit him. We also should probably discount any on-screen affection between 4 and Romana II simply because Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were in love, and darn it, when you're that in love, it's just going to show through.

Hasn't worked for a great many films though. Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman looked awful together. The best chemistry on screen has almost never been by a real life couple.

As for the First Doctor and Cameca..... I can't see it. Percieved affection used in such a way to attain the goals(the plans to the tunnels, best way to do it, make the Aztec woman think I love her), along with a slight misinterpretation of customs, as the look on the Doctor's face will attest to when she accepts his marriage proposal. Of all the Doctors, the First would still be closest to the Prydonian mindset.

Ah but he was also the one who rebeled and stole a Tradis to escape the Time Lords. He was also the only one who declaired love for a human woman and clearly had a loved relative. Your logic is faulty.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:56 pm

Is it? Just because he stole a Tardis and took his granddaughter along for the ride doesn't mean that he's thrown off the Prydonian mindset completely. They are the chapter that's produced the most Renegades, after all. Look at how he's willing to endanger and use his companions, even his own granddaughter, how willing to manipulate them. He slowly grows to accept them as friends, not allies to be used and cast aside.

As for the onscreen chemistry thing.... I hate to point it out, but their marriage might have lasted a year. Might. Maybe longer, maybe shorter. I don't think they beat the Borgnine/Merman record, but then, I'm not sure anybody has......

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:58 pm

Originally posted by Heinrad

As for the McGann "I'm half human" line..... Chalk it up to post-regenerative whimmy-whams, and the fact that when the Master came to that conclusion that there was "something human" about the Doctor, it was either because his body was still in somehting of a state of flux, or adapting to the plasma they probably gave him during the operation.

Though the entire plot (oh yes, there is one) hinges on him being half human and having human eyes.

The 5th Doctor was always flirting with women as well, usually ones that looked slightly older and generally were played by ex-Liver Birds.

BWW 2000 · Post by **BWW 2000** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:27 pm

There seems to have been a few major spoilers at Outpost Gallifrey, so, for those who don't want to know, just stay off of that site, or at least the spoiler section in any case...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:35 pm

Many of them are false though- The BBC including the TV Movie in it's new range of budget "Old Who Aimed At New Who Fans" re-releases is rather more specific- Considering every story chosen has a nuwho connection (Daleks, Autons, Cybermen, Sarah leaving) a story with the Master getting thrown in gives the game away a bit. Unless Brend's right about McGann.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:20 pm

I think some of the sources at the OPG website are quite true considering they post a BBC press release saying

SPOILER! (select to read)
It is the Master

.

I guessing that there is another surprise.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:25 pm

All spoilered up for a couple of days, so in I wade...

Originally posted by Heinrad
Well, "Time Tots" must be canon to some extent. Or it could just have been Romana II's way of making a joke at the expense of the more stuffy aspects of Time Lord society.

I know which is subscribe to, what with Romana's general character and all...

Originally posted by Heinrad
We also should probably discount any on-screen affection between 4 and Romana II simply because Tom Baker and Lalla Ward were in love, and darn it, when you're that in love, it's just going to show through.

Erm, why should we discount it because of that? Are you saying we should ignore the possibility that the Doctor and any character (let's say Peri, who tended to cop a lot of flak from him, and because I'm fairly sure Colin and Nicola get/got along) are friends because it's just chemistry between the two actors if the characters aren't walking around going "my friends"/"I am also your friend". Considering the massive amount people are reading into a throwaway line about Time Tots, it's rather valid, especially as no-one can come up with a single fragment of information tos guuest they weren't lovers. And yet people act as if the idea is akin to Benton creating the Daleks... Tom and Lalla's relationship is spectacularly irrelevant - unless you thought Turlough was doing wassface off Terminus. Are you saying Strickson and Goddard weren't in love because there wasn't any sign they were shagging in Terminus?

Was there ever anything to suggest Susan was actually a Time Lord, as opposed to just a Gallifreyan? I'm pretty sure there hasn't been (outside of print and CDs, and let's be honest, fans and creators alike of those probably sigh with relief every time the end credits roll without trashing whatever they had to say), so there's no reason whatsoever to think she didn't die of natural causes in, say, 2221...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:32 pm

The thing with Tom (Baker that is, not Cliffy) is, and it's quiet lazy of him really, is that his performance in the show tends to reflect how how he's fgeeling at the time. So the Doctor's in a bad mood in Fang Rock because Tom hates having to go to Birmingham [gross simplification], whilst in City of Death there is absolutely no subtly in the fact the Doctor is quiet clearly gagging to give Rommana one.

Originally posted by Cliffjumper

Was there ever anything to suggest Susan was actually a Time Lord, as opposed to just a Gallifreyan?

Is there anything actually on TV to say that all all Gallifrayians aren't Time Lords?

Come to that, do we have any firm evidence that Susan isn't 70 years old despite what she tells Ian and Barbara? If the Doctor really did leave Gallifrey 50 years before the Monk did then Susan may well be at least that old...

optimusskids · Post by **optimusskids** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:47 pm

According to the Times or at least it's tv review page

James "Spike" Marsters will be appearing in Torchwood.

Bombshell · Post by **Bombshell** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:24 am

This isn't gonna make Cliffy happy.

Heinrad · Post by **Heinrad** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:57 am

Oh, dear........ We might need to have Cliffy sedated.

Hell, I might need to be sedated........ One could even say that I am bothered, to say the least.

Alpha Trion · Post by **Alpha Trion** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:27 pm

How can they be serious about that? Is there some conspiracy within the BBC to kill the show? Series 3 was the best so far by some distance, and now RTD wants to throw that all away with that awful waste of oxygen? I know fans say this kind of thing a lot and no one, including me, takes them seriously, but I'm seriously thinking about not watching series 4. The Runaway Bride was painful and I don't think I have the stomach for nearly 13 hours more of that dreadful woman.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:10 am

Well, to be fair they'll have to change her character drasticaly to work on any day other than Christmas.

Nope, not in the least convincing am I?

Still, Kylie's actually a worse actress.