The New Communism Topic

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Strafe
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The New Communism Topic

Post by Strafe » Mon Dec 10, 2001 5:21 am

Alrighty, we'll just ignore the last interruption...

*ahem*

When Communism attacks religion and adopts an anti-religion policy and replaces it with the party/state, does it not become hypocritical? The way they treat Lenin, Mao, and the party in general just seems to replace religion with Party-Worship.

And since Marx said that religion was the opiate of the people, hasn't that opiate been replaced with another opiate? And if so, communism, as practiced, seems to be a contradiction...

No Religion Opiates, just party opiates...

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Post by Denyer » Mon Dec 10, 2001 5:09 pm

Originally posted by Strafe:
When Communism attacks religion and adopts an anti-religion policy and replaces it with the party/state, does it not become hypocritical?
Accusations of hypocrisy don't matter when you have a big stick...
"The death of one man is a tragedy; The death of a million is a statistic."
—Joseph Stalin.
"Kill a man, and you are an assassin. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone, and you are a god."
—Jean Rostand.

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Strafe
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Post by Strafe » Mon Dec 10, 2001 5:13 pm

So true, what was it Mao said?

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun"

I wouldn't say it's always true, but more often than not...

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Post by Reflector » Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:29 pm

Originally posted by Strafe:
The way they treat Lenin, Mao, and the party in general just seems to replace religion with Party-Worship.

Of course, socialist realism does not intend to make a man into God, just someone respected and loved. Stalin was not the messiah. Stalin was dad.
But close enough.

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Post by Galvatron91 » Mon Dec 10, 2001 9:39 pm

i so wish i could form a thought right now without wanting to pass out...keep this thread up for a couple days, i want my crack at it!

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Post by Quick Switch » Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:10 pm

Most modern Communist regimes strive for a cult of personality to arise (forcibly or not) around the current political elite.
Examples of this are, naturally, Stalin and Mao. Marx and Engels were made into virtual godheads. And we can't forget Lenin.

To reinforce 'Flec's point about Stalin, in the bowels of the multitude of KGB interrogation complexes during the Great Purges of the late 20s and the whole of the 30s, KGB officers found "Long live Stalin" painted along the walls -in blood- of the cells housing old guard Bolsheviks, White Russians, intelligentsia, and kulaks.

The irony here is Stalin himself ordered many, if not all of their executions and/or slow deaths, depending on his whim.

Maxim Gorky did a heck of a good job.

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Post by Strafe » Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:49 pm

One has to wonder what exactly Marx would think of how communism ended up. Do you think he was being naive in believing it could actually work, or maybe, just maybe, he might admit that this is as best as it could get?

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Post by Reflector » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:18 am

Nah. He did realize that his plan was a failure just before he died - Capitalism improved. If it hadn't, could Communism have worked? Maybe, if economic rankings were all that people cared about...

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Post by General Roadbuster » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:33 am

MMmmm....communism...


*drools*

Commies are poop.

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Post by Strafe » Thu Dec 13, 2001 4:21 pm

Originally posted by Quick Switch:
Maxim Gorky did a heck of a good job.

Who is Maxim Gorky?



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Post by Quick Switch » Thu Dec 13, 2001 4:29 pm

Gorky was Stalin's head Propaganda Minister for Culture.

Basically what this means is he created "Soviet realism" and molded the cultural lives of Soviet citizens for decades. All writers, artists, playwrights, etc., had to follow the guidelines he set for "orthodox" creativity within the USSR.

He got a Park named after him because he did such a "good" job.

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[This message has been edited by Quick Switch (edited 12-13-2001).]

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Post by Reflector » Thu Dec 13, 2001 9:32 pm

Originally posted by General Roadbuster:
MMmmm....communism...
*drools*
Commies are poop.
You know what? I like this guy.

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Post by S » Sat Dec 15, 2001 4:58 pm

Originally posted by Strafe:
One has to wonder what exactly Marx would think of how communism ended up. Do you think he was being naive in believing it could actually work, or maybe, just maybe, he might admit that this is as best as it could get?
Capitalism didn't look so great in the 19th century Europe. You'd agree with Marx if you were a factory worker doing 20 hour days, 7 days a week. Also, Marx was unable to predict the uncanny technological progress we've had during the last century or so. But on the other hand, Marx's analysis of the economy was and still is correct, even though his suggestions of improvement proved out to be bogus. That's more than can be said of the achievements of Lenin, Stalin, Mao and rest of the commies.

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Post by Sheba » Sun Dec 16, 2001 3:31 am

Well the funny thing is back in the days of Marx, rich people were starting to sing "That's ME IN THE CORNER, THAT'S ME IN THE SPOT-LIGHT, LOSIN' MY RELIGION!!!" and were often quite taken with Darwin's theory of "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest."

A lot of factory owners were in fact trying to put the principles of godless Darwinism into practice in REAL LIFE...and many still are today. The problem wasn't "capitalism" so much as it was Capitalism without God--which is no better than Communism without God. Either way people get shafted (although with Communism everybody is EQUALLY SHAFTIED EXCEPT THE PARTY BOSSES--which took the place of the 'rich/ruling class'--essentially making precisely 3/5 of F.A. difference in practice from a Communist Party Ruler and an EEEEEVIL rich monarchial type/industrialist guy Image)

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