When great shows do bad things

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:26 am

Yeah, its like QC kicked back in after a decade long hiatus.

Thoroughly gobsmacked I was, it was a proper slap-to-the-face-with-a-haddock reminder as to what made The Simpsons was such a pure, unadulterated trailblazing force in its heyday.

It can be good again!

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:46 am

The problem with The Simpsons isn't that its gone bad, it's just not as good. By most other comedy show standards it's on fire, but after 80 years and 50 billion episodes there's just nothing they haven't done already 50 times.

Mind, the recent ones are still better than the very rough and ready first few years (the ones where the bloke playing Homer hasn't got the voice right yet).

I'm not a religious South Park viewer (the film is brilliant though), but it seems to be keeping itself fresh a bit better. Mind, it's hard to be sure how recent any episode I happen to catch is.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:04 pm

Simpsons is a victim of its' own success - 1) as said, the sheer number of episodes means it's difficult to come up with something new, 2) it's now very established and easy for the lazy and stupid to take pot-shots at it as a vague smokescreen to detract from their own lack of individual thoughts.

I'd bet anyone who didn't see the first, say, 10 years and just watches the new ones on Sky or whatever rather than buying the DVD boxed sets and editing TV Tropes pages acordingly is happy enough with it. What recent episodes I've seen I'll take over most comedies, thanks - it's not bad on its' own terms, it's merely not as good as the thing was in its' prime.

The first series or so is terrible, though - mainly because it's genuinely about how funny, cool and crazy Bart is, with everyone else as basically support. But the Simpsons is about the only "grown-up cartoon" sitcom that doesn't rely solely on shock value and being bratty. It's also about the only American comedy that isn't hugely mawkish...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:48 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:But the Simpsons is about the only "grown-up cartoon" sitcom that doesn't rely solely on shock value and being bratty. It's also about the only American comedy that isn't hugely mawkish...

I've not seen any of the new Futurama yet, but that falls under pretty much the same description. Probably something to do with Matt G. I prefer Futurama to the Simpsons, not due to Edgy Underground Kewlness, but because it's just unashamedly geektastic. Any program that can have a penitentiary in the shape of an inverted pyramid and call it "Fulcrum Prism" and draw no attention to it gets my vote.

How I Met Your Mother tends to undercut its mawkishness by being under-the-radar snarktastic. It works in that, to the casual observer it's generic saccharine wallpaper, but in reality is just filth. A lot of the "relationship commentary" reminds me of Coupling. I'd link to some videos but all the ones on Youtube are shit.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:04 pm

Halfshell wrote:I meant you might need to be more specific about which one the hell season 14 is...

i think he measn the year or so where Top Gear became just the wrong side of cartoony, sorta when every show became a "lets make all this go wrong" focus and forgot the natural banter and car aspects of the show before last seasons return to form.

I can't say I even found Top gear bad myself however, though I enjoy the more natural flow fo the show again.

I'd vote the Futurama films except benders big score. The new series is such a wonderful return to form now they don't have to stretch plots out.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:12 pm

Halfshell wrote:
How I Met Your Mother tends to undercut its mawkishness by being under-the-radar snarktastic. It works in that, to the casual observer it's generic saccharine wallpaper, but in reality is just filth. A lot of the "relationship commentary" reminds me of Coupling. I'd link to some videos but all the ones on Youtube are shit.

HIMYM is quietly brilliant isn't it? It just genuinely flows nicely and organically, sorta like Friends in the first 2 seasons before it became increasingly brainless and the characters interchangably written besides a few sound bites.

Gouki · Post by **Gouki** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:56 pm

Auntie Slag wrote:I saw an excellent Simpsons episode on Channel 4 in the last couple of weeks. It was a new episode, a Treehouse of Horror one; and it felt like it was all done by the writers of the Movie, because there was much more sardonic humour, and it had that feeling of the writers trying to outdo themselves, as opposed to the usual shite crop of recent (as in the last 10 years) Simpsons episode where Homer is stupid for the sake of being stupid.

The episode ended with Mr. Burns head being graphed onto Homer's spine, and they spent the end credits singing 'I've got you under my skin'.

It felt like the old episodes, it was thoroughly bonkers and brilliant. I hope these writers stick around and it wasn't a one-off.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, that's about six years old or so.

Although, I'm curious to know what part of Prophecy Girl Cliffjumper has issues with.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:23 pm

The bit where the theme tune kicks in, complete with leaden-delivered quips from Miss Semi Machine Gun (I think right after she comes back to life). A moment that's meant to have people standing up and pumping their fists and yelling inanities like "You go, girlfriend!" and "Yur, kick that vamp's ass, Buff!", but actually it's the crowning turd in the waterpipe of the try-hard, static, forced Season 1*. Thankfully, 2-7 were generally good so it's not a massive problem, but if anyone over the age of 8 can watch that bit and not wince at how achingly, ineptly choreographed it is...

* = honourable exception - The Pack, just because it's possibly the only time Nick Brendon acts.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:30 pm

Oh, that bit toward the end of the first episode of Firefly... just following the dramatic escape, where Wash's heroic calm-in-the-face-of-death flying is completely undermined by the camera panning off to reveal that he's sat holding on for dear life not to the steering controls, but to thin air about half a foot from them.

That is my only critique of the entire series though, so take that for what it's worth.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:48 pm

Cliffjumper wrote: * = honourable exception - The Pack, just because it's possibly the only time Nick Brendon acts.

I've always found that annoying as it never once came up when Xander was going on about there being no difference between Angelus/Angel, "Hey, remember that time you ate a pig and tried to rape me due to being taken over by an evil demon?"

First season overall I'm fine with, it's not as good as what came after but it's enjoyable teatime hokum and not as up itself as season 6 is.

Not an especially good show but probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen on TV is how in Crime Traveller they had the normal British police carrying guns. At all times, including off duty and in Michael French's case tucked in his trousers. The least likely thing in the entire program.

The Blake's Log bit in Orac, ""Avon, let me play you a recording of me explaining things you already know because the writer and script editor couldn't think of a better way of recapping last weeks events. Whilst sitting on some nice garden furniture I just brought from B&Q"

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:25 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:I've always found that annoying as it never once came up when Xander was going on about there being no difference between Angelus/Angel, "Hey, remember that time you ate a pig and tried to rape me due to being taken over by an evil demon?"

Logic tended to take a holiday most of the time when Xander/Angelus was concerned. Like that bit in season 3 where everyone finds out that Angel's back... she gets all snotty of "you were spying on me??" but at no point does Xander turn round and say "er, no - I was tailing Angel... he just happened to lead me back to you."

Ho well.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:28 pm

Eh, I've always read the various inconsistencies as Xander being a bit jealous, a bit overprotective and a bit stupid - fictional characters can make arguments with holes in them and explain things wrong every bit as much as real people can.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Oh, I get Xander being extremely biased, it's just odd Buffy never threw the obvious thing back in his face when arguing rather than just doing her slapped in the face with a wet fish thing.

I'm trying to think of another show I like that much where the lead character annoyed me that much by the end.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:36 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Eh, I've always read the various inconsistencies as Xander being a bit jealous, a bit overprotective and a bit stupid - fictional characters can make arguments with holes in them and explain things wrong every bit as much as real people can.

Oh, I'm fine with that. Just pointing out that it seemed to be an ongoing trope surrounding the character in general.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:08 pm

Mmm, it's more a problem that no-one ever calls him on his double-standards - I guess they're all just nicer people than him.

Agree on Buffy - I can't think of any other show I like where I ouright dislike the lead character... I can think of a few where dislike for the lead swung things into dislike of the show (e.g. Kamile in Zeta Gundam - my only real problem with the show is him and his varied romances), and plenty where the lead might not be my favourite character but is certainly alright, but not many that survive the lead being such a piece of shit. Says a lot for the 'supporting' characters.

Alpha Trion · Post by **Alpha Trion** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:52 am

I'm so glad I'm not alone in considering Buffy basically intolerable. The friend who got me into the show was obsessed with SMG and could not understand that I loved her friends but sighed through half the scenes with the title character. Her indignant reaction to everything anyone did ever was well and truly worn by the end.

Any Lost fan knows Stranger in a Strange Land and The Other Woman are two episode We Don't Talk About. Helpfully, truly awful concepts introduced in both are immediately forgotten and never brought up again.

Twin Peaks. After the excellent resolution to the Laura Palmer storyline, the show dives headfirst into a main plotline for the eternally dull James Hurley. If I hadn't been told in advance to expect a dip in quality before the excellent last arc, I may not have made it through this rough patch.

I'm sure I'll think of more after posting this.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:12 am

A3!!!!!!!!

Ghostwatch is a generally fab way ahead of its time TV Movie that weirdly seems to be sending up Most Haunted a decade early. But all the effort put into making it seem a real live show being done by real people rather than actors is undone by the American skeptic being played by That Bloke Who Plays Americans In British Stuff. You know, President Winters in Who and the "You mean like the Dev-ON-shire?" CIA man in Tomorrow Never Dies.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:28 am

Alpha Trion wrote:Any Lost fan knows Stranger in a Strange Land and The Other Woman are two episode We Don't Talk About. Helpfully, truly awful concepts introduced in both are immediately forgotten and never brought up again.

Pfft. I have no issue with The Other Woman. It's the MiB messing with Juliet. For kicks. Because it's what he does. He's Walt too.

My issue comes with the seasonplay "questions" menu that comes up at the end of that disc, asking what the deal is with her. But hey, it's not like it's the only question thrown up by that feature that was either never addressed or is completely ****ing irrelevant.

Stranger in a Strange Land, however. Haha. Season 3 really was stretching in places, wasn't it? The Mysterious Origin of One of Jack's Tattoos! Why Sawyer isn't in Prison! Kate meets Cassidy! The Time Sayid Was a Chef! The shift in format came just in time to stop it collapsing in on itself entirely.

It's Claire abandoning her baby and meandering off into the jungle to live in the ghost shack with the dad she doesn't and didn't want to know the name of for absolutely no discernable reason that annoys the hell out of me. Well, that and the fact that they decided it didn't need in any way addressing but that we did need to see the orientation video for the Hydra... because Chang's alias and the origin of the Hurley bird are really ****ing important compared to an unexplained complete about face in the motivations of one of the core cast.

Prowl1984 · Post by **Prowl1984** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:10 pm

Babylon 5 Season 5. With the exception of the last episode it's all a big pile of hairy bollocks. I really didn't care about the Telepath War, every time Byron spoke i wanted to knock his teeth out, and don't even get me started on the singing! Bunch of hippies. Lockley was basically a shit Ivanova with all the acting talent of Keanu Reeves. The Centauri war felt pointless and strained. Garibaldi hitting the alcohol AGAIN was a complete waste of time and Lennier becoming a bit of a jealous bastard just didn't fit.

The end of season 4 was brilliant, that would have been a nice way to finish it, or maybe that plus the final episode of season 5.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:43 pm

I think Tracey Sccogins did as good a job as anyone would under the circumstances (replacing a much loved character who no one wanted to go? Didn't stand a chance), the Centauri stuff was heartbreaking and made up for the Byron bilge and as for Garibaldi, the last and only time he'd fallen off the wagon was for one episode four years earlier. And considering both the fact he was an alcoholic and what he'd been through by Bester's hands it's no wonder he hit the bottle again.