@Cliffy: Gundam?

Chat about stuff other than Transformers.
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Jaynz
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Post by Jaynz » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:32 pm

Sunstreaker2 wrote:Calling F91 terrible isn't really fair given its very troubled production.
You got to judge it by how it came out, not how it was supposed to come out. I could say that DESTINY was the best Gundam series of all because of many things that was supposed to happen, but didn't due to all the back-stage infighting and production issues and the demand to sell more model kits, etc.

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Post by Jaynz » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:05 pm

Hound wrote:I know that it's practically impossible that there will be any DVD release of AGE in North America, but I'm going to give it a few months while I watch other things and I think the chances of a Unicorn collection are at least probable.
We might see AGE in a three-issue set, but it won't be for awhile. Bandai is apparently still shopping around for a US distributor for their series, but one that won't butcher the hell out of their shows at the same time...
Mobile Suit Gundam - A good overall story but has some pacing problems in the middle.
Curse of the 'to sell toys' here, though I'm surprised by how much MSG actually holds up.
08th MS Team - Beautiful animation and a great story, one of the best.
Weird-ass ending, though. I know what they were trying to do, but I wish 08th Team had a bit more 'solid' closure rather than the odd-ball arty-ending with the newtypes.
0080 War in the Pocket - Good story but not long enough to live up to it's potential.
I always felt this one was a bit too anvilicious, even for a Gundam series. Just how much did they need to emotionally destroy a kid just to tell the audience how bad war can be, really?
0083 Stardust Memory - An ok story but some terrible characters.
Honestly, this one needed another batch of episodes to see the story and characters through. Granted, this is really supposed to explain the changes beteen MSG and Zeta, but there ya go. A lot of really good designs in this one, aside from the rediculously-overpowered super-armor at the end.. if you thought the METEOR system was bad...
Zeta Gundam - Love the mecha in this one and Char is probably the best in this one than he is in anything else. Probably my second favorite.
Would have been my favorite if it wasn't for the ending. "Hey, you know those past 30 episodes, utterly pointless now..." Again, some great suit designs here, and pretty much drives home that the UC is a shitty reality in which to live.
Gundam ZZ - Love Judau, love the ZZ Gundam, the story is pretty good.
This one is way too harshly judged, largely due to the mood-whiplash from the ending of Zeta. Judau is probably the best of all Gundam pilots, though, in both his skill and his character. The Moon-Moon episodes really hurt this one, though, but otherwise this is an excellent Gundam series overall. A few new and nice suit designs, notably the ZZ and Mk II upgrades.
Char's Counterattack - Great movie but Quess and Hathaway are the worst characters I've ever seen in anything.
I wanted to like this one, but, yes, Quess and Hathaway, who get about 1/2 the overall screen time, aren't really important to the movie's plot and are two of the most annoying pieces of crap to ever grace Gundam. The Sazabi and Nu Gundam are iconic, though...
F91 - Terrible. A great big messy jumble of crap. Characters are bland and the story is confusing.
Couldn't find anything to like in this one, myself.
Victory - Love most of the characters in this one, story is good, LOTS of death.
Funny how Uso becomes the most geniunely matured of all the UC pilots isn't it? Again, some good designs (the V series is pretty nice) but we're getting into some bad gimmicks with suits here as well. Katejena is the most bat-shit crazy villain Gundam ever sees, which is saying a lot... "Bikini Brigade Attack"
G Gundam - Great Mecha, story is ok, characters are OTT and the voice acting was pretty awful.
Went on at length on this one elsewhere. It's best to view this one as a sendup of Gundam and other anime of the time, though it has a decent story under it (even if it is a redeux of Robot Jox) and it has some of the best - and deliberately worst - Gundam designs ever made.
Gundam Wing - Characters are almost all terrible, the story is mostly awful but the mecha are awesome and I think it all looks very beautiful.
Some of the best suits in Gundam, honestly, but it's a bit hard to follow. The changes in Heero and Releena are subtle and good, but the characters get a bit buried in the constantly evolving conflicts going on. Also... insane Yaoi bait.. unfortunately started that craze in the US which did a lot to KILL the rising popularity of anime here.
Endless Waltz - Gorgeous, but the story is 'meh'.
Looks like they were trying to do their 'UC continues' story with this movie, but everyone's out of character and the story isn't particularly gripping. Some beautiful suits, though, and the EW Wing Zero is iconic.
Gundam X - Great everything except that the ending is rushed.
Haven't been able to see much of this one, unfortunately. Liked some of the designs, though the reliance on drones and external power sources seemed a bit daft.
Turn A - Fantastic in just about every respect, just didn't care for the mecha designs. Easily my favorite.
So many reused designs, so many updates of classic suits. I did like this one, but I kinda wish they had stuck with Laura rather than the 'in your face' joke of cross-dressing. Very artistic, and an interesting take of the far, far future of the UC. Apparently things don't get better...
Gundam SEED - The story is ripped from MSG and the characters are almost all annoying and the flashbacks are way too overused. Still thought it was good.
SEED has some great bits and I love most of the new suits. The Strike is my favorite 'vanilla' suit from all the series, though it's basically a revamped RX-78 with extension packs. Cast is okay, but too much time on Flay and a lot of the flashback time SHOULD have been used for more story or character-interaction instead. After the 50th time seing Nicole or Toll's death, I can imagine a lot of people turning off.
SEED Destiny - Terrible. Even more use of flashbacks and clip shows and the story is ok at best.
The most drama-plagued of all Gundams behind the scenes, and GOD does it show in the work. Some good new designs, yes, and I admit that I like Luna, but Shinn (who is not the hero but is the main character) is annoying about two episodes in and just steadily gets worse. Kira gets a god complex, Lacus is Queen of Space, and you wind up really wishing Athrun would go the full-on Char Aznable at some point. Is it any wonder that the planned third series and movies were canned?
Stargazer - Wow, my only complaint is that it's way too short. Should have been a full length movie.
"You know all that terrible shit we've been skirting around in Destiny? Here it is in all its glory!" This could have been a great OVA series or a feature film... it helped immensely that it was NOT done by SEED or Destiny's team.. which shows you what some professionalism can do for you.
Gundam 00 - Good story, good characters, great mecha, avoid the movie.
I felt this was simply OKAY. It seemed to take a lot of aspects of Wing and made everyone into Heero... the politics and world-views are the best handled for Gundam, though, which is very refreshing after the blatant anti-western bigotry of Destiny. I'm not as sold on the mecha as some, but that may be due to how insanely fragile the model kits wound up being...

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Post by Hound » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:03 pm

TFVanguard wrote:We might see AGE in a three-issue set, but it won't be for awhile. Bandai is apparently still shopping around for a US distributor for their series, but one that won't butcher the hell out of their shows at the same time...
*crosses fingers*
Weird-ass ending, though. I know what they were trying to do, but I wish 08th Team had a bit more 'solid' closure rather than the odd-ball arty-ending with the newtypes.
I get what you mean but it just doesn't ruin it for me. It's good enough that the stuff in that extra episode doesn't spoil anything.
I always felt this one was a bit too anvilicious, even for a Gundam series. Just how much did they need to emotionally destroy a kid just to tell the audience how bad war can be, really?
You definitely need to watch something happy and/or funny after this one but I still think it's a great little story that could have used a couple more episodes to get all of it's story told.
Honestly, this one needed another batch of episodes to see the story and characters through.
Really it just needed a completely different set of characters that weren't mostly all stupid.
"Bikini Brigade Attack"
Hahah!
and it has some of the best - and deliberately worst - Gundam designs ever made.
Tequila Gundam! AWESOME!
Haven't been able to see much of this one, unfortunately. Liked some of the designs, though the reliance on drones and external power sources seemed a bit daft.
You should find this show and watch it. It's so great and even though the ending got rushed they still manage to tell the story well.
So many reused designs, so many updates of classic suits. I did like this one, but I kinda wish they had stuck with Laura rather than the 'in your face' joke of cross-dressing. Very artistic, and an interesting take of the far, far future of the UC. Apparently things don't get better...
I love the reuse of mechs. Those I don't have a problem with. I actually really like Harry's Sumo and the Turn A has grown on me some over time but it's not a great design.
The most drama-plagued of all Gundams behind the scenes, and GOD does it show in the work. Some good new designs, yes, and I admit that I like Luna, but Shinn (who is not the hero but is the main character) is annoying about two episodes in and just steadily gets worse. Kira gets a god complex, Lacus is Queen of Space, and you wind up really wishing Athrun would go the full-on Char Aznable at some point. Is it any wonder that the planned third series and movies were canned?
You know what? I really liked Kira in Destiny. I get that he's way too powerful a pilot but really, he's fought in a war already, he's a coordinator with the SEED power (whatever the hell that is!) and it's not like he wins every single fight. Shinn took him down one time. I'm just happy he's not being a whiny indecisive child, like he was for all 50 episodes of the first series. It's nice to see him played as an experienced veteran. It doesn't make sense to me for him to be played any other way.

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Post by Jaynz » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:50 pm

Hound wrote:Really it just needed a completely different set of characters that weren't mostly all stupid.
Some of the stupidity is why you get the Titans in the first place. But I think a lot of it could have been mitigated with a few more episodes to explain the characters better.
Tequila Gundam! AWESOME!
Is it wrong that I really want a model set of this one? Poor guy didn't even get a toy in the action figure line... It actually is a pretty good Gundam design, too!
You know what? I really liked Kira in Destiny.
The problem with Kira isn't that he's powerful, but that he and Lacus come along and solve the plot for the characters SEED had otherwise focused upon. so Athrun is relegated to sidekick again. Shinn is a perpetual asshole, and so on.

I still kinda want to see "Athrun's Counterattack', though...

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Post by Sunstreaker2 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:35 pm

Hound wrote:Just because there's an excuse for why it's terrible doesn't mean it's not terrible.
I guess I'm just one of those people who is more willing to accept a movie or TV show's flaws if I know that it had a troubled production history.
No longer looking for RID Dreadwind, but I still need Smokejumper. I'm also in need of Mammoth Nemesis Prime's tail piece, as my figure lacks it. Send me a PM.

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Post by Jaynz » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:21 am

Sunstreaker2 wrote:I guess I'm just one of those people who is more willing to accept a movie or TV show's flaws if I know that it had a troubled production history.
At the end of the day, though, the end product really is what matters. Since a lot of the 'troubled production history' has to do with staffers not keeping it professional, and not keeping it in their pants, I tend to be less forgiving overall.

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Post by Sunstreaker2 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:18 pm

TFVanguard wrote:At the end of the day, though, the end product really is what matters. Since a lot of the 'troubled production history' has to do with staffers not keeping it professional, and not keeping it in their pants, I tend to be less forgiving overall.
With Destiny it can all be blamed on Fukuda's wife.

What people seem to forget is that Destiny was just fine up until around Episode 34...typical Cosmic Era silliness, but nothing egregious.
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Post by Jaynz » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:24 pm

Sunstreaker2 wrote:With Destiny it can all be blamed on Fukuda's wife.
Ultimately, it rests with Fukuda himself.
What people seem to forget is that Destiny was just fine up until around Episode 34...typical Cosmic Era silliness, but nothing egregious.
Sadly, the worst problems of SEED show up in Destiny pretty quick, with the immense amounts of flashbacks. Also, Fukuda's "she didn't screw me so I'll screw over her character" treatment of Cagalli shows pretty early on as well. Her handling of the writing was poor all around, but it hit critical mass in the second arc of Destiny and she was effectively fired (as in, the crew finished it up so they could get paid without her) for the final arc.

Is the whole "Japanese female VAs have to sleep with the producers, directors, or somebody" really THAT common, so much so that it doesn't even register as a scandal any more? This wasn't even the first time it happened in GUNDAM, since this curse goes all the way back to Sayla Mass!

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Post by Tetsuro » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:20 pm

I bought a couple of those "special" action bases, molded in the shape of the EFSF and Zeon emblems - and High Grade kits are just way too tiny to pose on these things!

Guess it's about time I started getting MG kits instead...

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Post by Tetsuro » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:18 pm

Does the MG RGM-79 v2 come with the space parts or is it just in the older RGM-79C?

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Post by Blackjack » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:48 am

Mmm, I bought Dynasty Warriors Gundam 2 a couple of weeks back and have been playing it non-stop. The condensed story of... of the MSG-Zeta-ZZ-CCA series is pretty good, although I'm certain the game exorcised a fair bit of padding and stuff. So far I think I'm liking Gundam quite a bit, if only for the awesome designs and the massive hammy campy feel of every character.

There are quite a lot of awesome-looking designs... the Epyon, Zeta, Burning, Freedom and Nu Gundams, plus the Sazabi, are big favourites of mine out of looks alone.

Still not sure what the newtypes actually are even after reading the backstories, so I'm assuming they're some sort of cyborg jedi empath thing.

The 'Mission Mode' that lumps everyone together and sort-of tells their story (I ended up reading their biographies to make sense of their actual backstories) which I find is intriguing, with different sets of characters... the Turn A chaps and the martial artists are quite distinct from the more war-is-hell MSG people and the 'fight to stop fighting' SEED people.

I did buy a couple of Gundam kits as a kid, and I'm very pleased to see an old friend from my childhood, who's apparently named Gundam Mark II (the black Titans one) is a fairly important mobile suit. Also the Zaku.

No idea who the rest of my small Gundam collection is, though... I know the orange transforming one is the Arios Gundam (who's from another series that didn't make it into the game), and the green one with interlocking shield has some kind of weird name. And then there's this one that came with an insanely big sword, two smaller swords of different sizes, two lightsabers, and tow more lightsabers. Looks like he's the main character of his series, although none of the suits in Dynasty Warriors Gundam match Sword McSword here. Plus there's a black-and-indigo Gundam with two cannons that swing around his waist and stuff, the Hell-Buster or something, IIRC. And then there are two generic-looking guys with tank treads and Roadbuster heads. It's a bit weird to see so many distinctive and awesome suits in the game but only two that are toys I own...

Anyway, all this Gundam madness culminated in my buying a model kit of the RX-78. He doesn't look as good as the other Gundams available (I was sorely tempted by the ZZ) but I think once he's done he'll look pretty nice next to the Zaku and the Mark 2.

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Post by Jaynz » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:24 pm

Blackjack wrote:There are quite a lot of awesome-looking designs... the Epyon, Zeta, Burning, Freedom and Nu Gundams, plus the Sazabi, are big favourites of mine out of looks alone.
Epyon is one of the coolest designs, and it's a little sad that it doesn't show up more in the games. (For some reason, Endless Waltz gets more attention in the AC-focused games, and Epyon isn't in that...)
Still not sure what the newtypes actually are even after reading the backstories, so I'm assuming they're some sort of cyborg jedi empath thing.
Newtypes basically have heightened mental abilities and quicker reflexes. Char Aznable saw them as the next stage of evolution, but they're getting killed off by the time Gundam: Unicorn rolls around. They're never adequately explained in anything, though...
I did buy a couple of Gundam kits as a kid, and I'm very pleased to see an old friend from my childhood, who's apparently named Gundam Mark II (the black Titans one) is a fairly important mobile suit. Also the Zaku.
Zaku is the main-line suit for Zeon through Gundam and most of Zeta. It's also a big fan favorite so it was 'reimagined' for Gundam SEED Destiny (and, admittedly, it's one of the coolest suits from that series).

The Mk II (Titans) was the first 'villain' suit for the Zeta series, but it gets reclaimed and used as parts for the 'hero' Mk II early on.
No idea who the rest of my small Gundam collection is, though... I know the orange transforming one is the Arios Gundam (who's from another series that didn't make it into the game), and the green one with interlocking shield has some kind of weird name.
You're describing a lot of the Gundam OO mobile suits, which is a series which came out AFTER Gundam: Dynasty Warriors II. The suits show up in Dynasty Warriors III, however, though you need to get the DLC to get them.
And then there are two generic-looking guys with tank treads and Roadbuster heads. It's a bit weird to see so many distinctive and awesome suits in the game but only two that are toys I own...
Ah, the infamous Guntank from the original Gundam series. There's a story about their inclusion and just how much Tomino hated them...
Anyway, all this Gundam madness culminated in my buying a model kit of the RX-78. He doesn't look as good as the other Gundams available (I was sorely tempted by the ZZ) but I think once he's done he'll look pretty nice next to the Zaku and the Mark 2.
There's an 'updated' design for the RX-78 coming out to mark its appearance in Origins. Just remember, the RX-78 was the first hero Gundam, so it didn't get a lot of the graphical and detail refinements that we see from Zeta onwards.

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Post by Hound » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:13 pm

I happen to think the RX-78-2 is a beautiful suit.

Not so fond of the Origins redesign.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 pm

RX-78 = Gundam, right? It's a ****ing awesome suit - clarity, simplicity, functionality. The only ones that have come close since are v-Gundam and the Turn A...

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Post by Jaynz » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:02 am

Hound wrote:I happen to think the RX-78-2 is a beautiful suit.

Not so fond of the Origins redesign.
It's fair to say that the details are a bit dated, though, due to the whole 1970s animation thing. There have been some amazingly beautiful (while subtle) revisions of the classic Gundam over the years though. The one I got (faring against some SEED Zaku's) is from right before SEED's release and has nice detailing on the legs (where it's most lacking) and some gearing in the arms - a little closer to the Alex in appearance, but still the RX-78-2.

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Post by Tetsuro » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:11 am

I was supposed to move on to Master Grade ages ago, but after that one action base had been sitting in HLJ's private warehouse for two months, I didn't feel like paying for the shipping for just one thing...so I bought the HG twin ball set to go with it since it was so cheap.

Now I find myself wanting to buy three RGM-79's in the HG scale just so I'll have a complete ESFS standard combat unit together. Sigh.

At least I finally got the Psycho Gundam coming for them to fight. :D

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Post by Hound » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:49 pm

Ooo, Psycho Gundam, nice...

I was looking at one in the hobby shop at the mall a while back. Unfortunately I think it's beyond my reach fund wise right now.

I completed my 1/144 scale Gundam Wing binge and probably won't be going after anymore models for several months now.

I would like to try a Perfect Grade someday, but I'm just not sure which one I want yet. I'll decide when the time comes to buy it.

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Post by Tetsuro » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:20 am

Finally got my first Master Grade, the RX-78-2 v2.

After putting it together, I found myself wondering why the hell did I wait this long? It looks amazing! Spent about five hours building it, didn't even want to put it back down once I started. Did only a minimal panel lining, namely the faceplate and the beam sabre hilts. I should pick up a grey fine tip marker for those white parts so they won't look so overwhelming.

Meanwhile, something's afoot over in Nippon, HLJ has tried sending me a package with my HG Psycho and MG Char's Zaku through fedex twice already, first time it only reached as far as their sorting facility before deemed "undeliverable package" by fedex and sent back, then they sent it again and now it's stuck at the sorting facility with the same message. What the hell is going on over there?

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Post by Hound » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:29 am

You should call Fedex and ask them...

BTW, started watching AGE. I'm almost done with the first Saga and I'm really enjoying it. The mobile suits all look really good and while all of the characters pretty much fit into standard generic mecha anime character molds they're all pretty likeable and the mysterious villain thing is compelling enough.
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Post by Tetsuro » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:48 am

Hound wrote:You should call Fedex and ask them...
What, in Japan?

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