@Cliffy: Gundam?

[Hound]

In-universe, though, it's very strange that such a major character just basically disappears

I'm just excited that any of the original cast was carried over. I was all giddy when I saw that Mirai and Bright were married and astounded when I realized that Fraw and Hayato were married. I love that the characters get to be more than just a cameo at all really. I didn't expect to see any of them in any major roles in this cartoon.

[Cliffjumper]

Mmm, and it's nice the way they're used as well - they're not revered for their efforts in the war - Amuro's basically kept in an open prison, Bright's an outsider in the military and so on. At the same time I like the way they're all used sensibly - Mirai, for example, has no great desire to get back to military operations.

[Hound]

Ok I finished the three movies.

I found myself confused all during the last battle though. It's actually really hard to keep track of who's who when they're speaking Japanese and wearing the space suit helmets and the mobile suits aren't drastically different.

Especially the girls. "Ok wait, is that Fa?"

It was easier when it was just Amuro, Kai, Sayla and Hayato against Char and maybe one or two other bad guys that matter.

That and you've got not just two factions fighting. Three, and you're supposed to keep track of who's attacking who and who's helping who.

All very confusing. I hope it's easier to follow in the slowed down pace of the series.

I downloaded the first episode of 08th MS Team. A lot of swearing and the promise of substantial nudity in the next episode. So, this one, not for kids then?

[the_escaflowne_2k]

Nudity, lasts about 30 seconds and never occurs again throughout. Swearing is a bit more recurrent, but never shocking. The story overal is handled in a more subdued slowed down and mature way than other series, which I think is due to the fact it was aimed at those who watched the original series when it came so the handling of the series had matured at least somewhat with the audience.

[Cliffjumper]

Yeh, it was an OVA series (i.e. straight-to-DVD, though generally a bit classier than the connotation usually brings up) and they tend to be much more adult-orientated for the most part - a number (08th among them) tend top revolve around the events of the One-Year War in Gundam.

08th is very character-based and in some respects is a bit of a slow-burner, but it's really worth it.

[Sunstreaker2]

I've seen EVERYTHING except SEED/Destiny, Turn A, and X at this point.

I'm not a big UC fan. I like certain aspects of Zeta, and I like ZZ, but CCA fills me with lots of rage, F91 just feels very incomplete, and after a while I just couldn't bear to watch Victory any more.

I wanted to like the Zeta movies, but the schizophrenic changes in animation quality really put me off.

[Jaynz]

I watched the first Zeta movie last night and it was great.

Warning about the Zeta movies. The ending of the three movies is very very different from how the series ends. I mean, totally mind-****ingly different. Oddly, Bandai considers the movies 'canon' except the ending, which the canon is the television series. (This is so Double Zeta can still exist.)

[Jaynz]

I've seen EVERYTHING except SEED/Destiny, Turn A, and X at this point.

I've heard good things about X, but I haven't seen it yet, myself. I just have the Leopard model kit, but it screams of Gundam Heavy Arms to me... so... maybe it's my inner Wing fan drawn to the designs.

I actually liked SEED, though there's a bit in the second-quarter of the series that slogs on with Kira going all emo for a bit. The series gets a lot better once the ship is really involved in the war and some of the serious shit that happens after that point makes it one of the best Gundams in the franchise. But, like I said, sitting through Kira's early drama gets a bit taxing.

SEED Destiny suffers from a lot of back-stage issues (more drama in Sunrise's offices than on the show!) but it works a lot better when you realize that Shinn Asuka is NOT the hero of the show. The back-stage debacles resulted in a handful of completely different writing teams, all with their own takes on what to do with Shinn, who never really gets redeemed as a character. It's a pretty deliberate retelling of Zeta and parts of it works better than others.

Both SEED and SEED Destiny's easy to get a hold of now, so I would recommend it for the dollar. The movie sets cut out a lot of the stronger second-tier characters, unfortunately, but the change in focus for the SEED Destiny movies may help you get through that part of the franchise if you find yourself just wanting to kill Shinn early on.

Anyway, new (sub-only) releases of Turn A and X are coming next year, so you may want to hold off until then. Rumors of ZZ getting an official release persist, but nothing concrete yet.

I'm not a big UC fan. I like certain aspects of Zeta, and I like ZZ, but CCA fills me with lots of rage, F91 just feels very incomplete, and after a while I just couldn't bear to watch Victory any more.

Char's Counterattack is a six-episode OVA series that got squished into a single movie. That's really why the pacing is just so awful and why certain characters just seem so bizzare. The magna (though it has some canon issues) is infinitely more popular for a reason.

F91 was originally going to be a 39 episode series and, when the decision was made to make it a movie instead, some idiot decided to crib scenes from the outline and throw them together into a movie. This, obviously, does not work.

Victory, for its part, was Bandai's attempt to make Gundam more 'youth friendly' and the entire series was pushed that way. I haven't seen the second half, but I've been told that once that is out of the system, the series actually gets pretty good.

[Jaynz]

Sayla does make a silent cameo in the original series, IIRC. In-universe, though, it's very strange that such a major character just basically disappears

Sayla appears in Z, ZZ, and Char's Counterattack in cameos. She's very important in the ZZ series, oddly enough, since she's the one who looks over Leina. (This is also odd, as she has little dialog and shows up with little acknowledgment of who the hell she is!). The other cameos are just reaction shots to news about either Amuro or Char.

[Hound]

I downloaded 6 episodes of MS IGLOO and watched about a minute of the first episode before deciding I didn't like the animation and turned it off.

Can anyone speak on whether I should bother with it?

I mean I probably will because it's just 9 episodes in total but I wonder if there's anything redeemable about it.

[Jaynz]

Can anyone speak on whether I should bother with it?

I have not watched it and I couldn't quite get into it myself. I really can't pun down exactly why, I just wasn't 'gripped'. The fans of IGLOO like it because it's more of a grounded story and is from the Zeon point of view. I'm not really sure what it adds to the UC other than that... but at least it isn't ANOTHER secret Gundam project for the OYW.

[Cliffjumper]

Ok I finished the three movies.

I found myself confused all during the last battle though. It's actually really hard to keep track of who's who when they're speaking Japanese and wearing the space suit helmets and the mobile suits aren't drastically different.

Especially the girls. "Ok wait, is that Fa?"

It was easier when it was just Amuro, Kai, Sayla and Hayato against Char and maybe one or two other bad guys that matter.

That and you've got not just two factions fighting. Three, and you're supposed to keep track of who's attacking who and who's helping who.

All very confusing. I hope it's easier to follow in the slowed down pace of the series.

I didn't want to post any spoilers before, but to me the introduction of Neo Zeon or whatever they were called is the point where Zeta really goes off the rails - not just for confusion reasons, it just treads on the decent Titans plot and basically muscles the first half of the series out of the way for little gain.

[Jaynz]

I didn't want to post any spoilers before, but to me the introduction of Neo Zeon or whatever they were called is the point where Zeta really goes off the rails - not just for confusion reasons, it just treads on the decent Titans plot and basically muscles the first half of the series out of the way for little gain.

True, but that was because Tomino (?) wanted to really push Char's Counterattack, and that's not coincidentally right when approval for that project went through. He had to 'reset the series' to the story he really wanted to tell, so the entire second half of Zeta turned into a 'kill them all' effort to get everything out of the way for CCA.

This is made even a bit more blatant in ZZ...

[Sunstreaker2]

The biggest problem I always had with Zeta was the pacing. It's AWFUL.

Episode after episode passes with nothing really happening, characters disappear for huge stretches at a time or are FORGOTTEN ENTIRELY (where the hell did Beltorchika and Kai go?) and other characters seem just plain unnecessary (Rosamia, anyone?), which means their presence drags down the plot.

Oh well, it did give us the total awesomeness that is Yazan Gable, that guy with the big blond pompadour and the Hawaiian shirt who either indirectly or directly kills everyone who dies at the end of Zeta except for Scirocco!

[Hound]

Well, my Zeta Gundam DVD sets just arrived and I've got 08th MS Team and Char's Counterattack on DVD that should be here by monday. So if I'm looking to stay with the UC timeline (for now) where do I want to go next?

[Sunstreaker2]

Well, my Zeta Gundam DVD sets just arrived and I've got 08th MS Team and Char's Counterattack on DVD that should be here by monday. So if I'm looking to stay with the UC timeline (for now) where do I want to go next?

ZZ is streaming on many a site and has torrents available, and once the initial silliness gets out of the way it's excellent. The ending's less dismal than Zeta's too.

[Hound]

Ok I just realized that Char's Counterattack takes place after Double Zeta. So will Char's Counterattack spoil anything when I watch it first?

I'm about a 3rd through Zeta Gundam and it's been good. As good as I thought the first Zeta movie was I think I prefer the extra information you get watching the series.

So I think my plan is this:
Finish Zeta
then Char's Counterattack
then 08th MS Team
then MS IGLOO
then War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory
then Gundam ZZ
then Unicorn and F91
and watch Victory Gundam last

From there I'll have another go at Gundam Wing. At least watch the 2 DVDs I have and see how I feel about it and then either finish it or watch Turn A.

[Jaynz]

Very little in Char's Counterattack will spoil anything about Double Zeta. (Double Zeta overly neatly-wraps-up that entire era, actually, and even gets most of the key cast 'out of the way' so as not to interfere with CCA's story).

[Hound]

So who's watched War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory? No one's mentioned them. Any good?

Oh and Unicorn?

[Jaynz]

So who's watched War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory? No one's mentioned them. Any good?

War in the Pocket is okay, with some good characters (and the Alex design is a nice Gundam update). The major downside with it is just how insanely anvilicious it gets with the 'war is evil' message. This is, of course, a message prevalent in all of Gundam, but War in the Pocket really takes this to a ridiculous extreme at points.

Stardust Memory is the 'bridge' between the One Year War and the events of Zeta. It's decent enough but a little rough and you have to swallow a lot of disbelief due to the sheer amount of Gundam programs introduced through it. It nicely sets up the Titans as well as some very disturbing events in both Zeta and Double Zeta, however.

Oh and Unicorn?

Haven't yet seen this one, as I'm waiting for it to finish first.