The Pros and Cons of Modern Action Films and Directors.

Chat about stuff other than Transformers.
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Brimstone
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Post by Brimstone »

Cliffjumper wrote:It's a bit of an old chestnut, I know, but this is worth a read for anyone who hasn't: -

http://twitpic.com/3blasf/full
Never read that before. Interesting.

Of course, after all that, they cut the lines where Lando explains why Chewie and Leia are there...so I kinda feel like I just wasted 15 minutes reading that whole thing. LOL!
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Post by Neuronutter »

Cliffjumper wrote:Best shows I've ever seen?

Firefly
Prime is shaping up very nicely but there's still plenty of time for it all to go very badly wrong.

Probably others I've shamefully forgotten. I watch too much TV.
Seems like. :)

Of the ones mentioned I love Firefly and Prime. I think Prime's been great so far and hope it runs longer than Animated did.

I haven't seen most of the ones you've listed. Shows I personally love, though they may not be the best ones ever made:

Battlestar Galactica (the recent one)
Babylon 5
Red Dwarf (not because it's actually that good, just that I loved it up till Season 7)
Star Trek Deep Space Nine (another personal favourite and as you can tell I watch a lot of Sci-Fi)
Terriers was truly excellent and cancelled too soon.
Better Off Ted
Spaced

Also, this thread has, once again, veered off course. Oh well.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

DS9 is on my "get hold of the lot and watch properly" list - I watched it pretty solidly up until about series 4 on BBC2's legendary 6pm "not the news" slot but lost track when I moved out.

BSG I'm very curious about.

Spaced I loved at the time but I feel hasn't dated too well... I think it's hurt more by Shaun and Fuzz doing a better job.

Red Dwarf (1-6 anyway) probably should have been on my list. Regularly rewatch.

RE: the thread, will have a look at shifting the big off-topic sways somewhere else later if no-one proper does it first...
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Cliffjumper wrote: Why not? Box office and film quality are two different things. How many people went to see this thing because it was a Joss Whedon film? Whedon probably deserves credit for turning the thing in on time and, who knows, without him it could have been even more of a car crash. But the commercial appeal is down to a bunch of comic characters who are nearly as old as he is (in America both the Avengers and their core characters have been big news for a long time) and a great big promotional budget. His name probably did help grease a little word of mouth through his cultists but I doubt the thing would have died a death without it.
I don't know, that is easy to say in retrospect. If the film had flopped (and there's no shortage of big heavily promoted movies dying a death, even parts of established franchises) he'd have taken the brunt of the blame, rightly. He deserves the credit for its success as well.
Avengers Seasons 4-6 (Diana Rigg shows, I forget where they are on whether her shows are 2 or 3 series now)

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I know you don't normally bother with them, but when you get that far listen to Peter Wyngarde's commentary for Epic, it's like two of your favourite shows combined. He spends most of it acting out scenes from a Movie version he wrote, and it's impossible to tell if he really is nuts or is completely taking the piss.

EDIT: Yeah, might as well move the whole thread really, we already have a general TF4 news thread which, IIRC, has the news Bay was back in it. Unless anyone has any objections?
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Post by Neuronutter »

Cliffjumper wrote:DS9 is on my "get hold of the lot and watch properly" list - I watched it pretty solidly up until about series 4 on BBC2's legendary 6pm "not the news" slot but lost track when I moved out.

BSG I'm very curious about.

Spaced I loved at the time but I feel hasn't dated too well... I think it's hurt more by Shaun and Fuzz doing a better job.

Red Dwarf (1-6 anyway) probably should have been on my list. Regularly rewatch.

RE: the thread, will have a look at shifting the big off-topic sways somewhere else later if no-one proper does it first...
I don't have a job at the moment so I have a lot of time to watch shows (thought I am writing full time, so I don't have that much) so I recently rewatched the entire BSG run and I absolutely love it. Try the first mini-season, which is 4 episodes, and sets the series up. If you like that give the rest a go.

My wife and I have just started DS9 from the beginning too. She very patiently watched it with me many years ago and eventually fell in love with it. It's a great show to revisit and has a lot more charm in the first season than I remembered. One of the really nice things about it is how un-Star-Trek it feels with the mix of aliens it has. They also set up some of the character dynamics from the beginning - Odo and Quark, Bashir and Garak, Dax and Sisko.

I love Spaced and subsequent re-watches have only reinforced how much I enjoy it. I don't think the humour or characters has aged at all and I'm very grateful they ended it after two seasons and then all went on to do bigger things.
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Post by Neuronutter »

inflatable dalek wrote:EDIT: Yeah, might as well move the whole thread really, we already have a general TF4 news thread which, IIRC, has the news Bay was back in it. Unless anyone has any objections?
The bay news was already somewhere? Sorry, missed that.
inflatable dalek wrote:If the film had flopped (and there's no shortage of big heavily promoted movies dying a death, even parts of established franchises)
Hello, John Carter (of Mars).
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Neuronutter wrote:The bay news was already somewhere? Sorry, missed that.
It's not the end of the world, I think he formally announced his return a few months ago. And it has led to a nice thread. :)
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Post by Neuronutter »

TBH, it seems big enough news for it's own thread and discussion, now that I think about it.

And I'm not sure nice is the right word for this thread. Rambling, argumentative, and off-topic might be more appropriate.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Neuronutter wrote: And I'm not sure nice is the right word for this thread. Rambling, argumentative, and off-topic might be more appropriate.
[jazz]Nice.[/jazz]
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Neuronutter wrote:
My wife and I have just started DS9 from the beginning too. She very patiently watched it with me many years ago and eventually fell in love with it. It's a great show to revisit and has a lot more charm in the first season than I remembered. One of the really nice things about it is how un-Star-Trek it feels with the mix of aliens it has. They also set up some of the character dynamics from the beginning - Odo and Quark, Bashir and Garak, Dax and Sisko.
Mmm, what I liked about DS9 was they got it right from the ground up, compared to TNG, which has about three terrible seasons while they try to sort it out.
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Post by Warcry »

Cliffjumper wrote:BSG I'm very curious about.
It's very, very, very far on the grim side of the spectrum, almost as if the creators felt like they had to make up for the silliness of the original. If you can get over that it's very entertaining, but after a fantastic climax at the end of the first season and start of the second there was a noticeable drop in quality that they could never quite reverse. It's kind of like LOST in that once they'd spent a season or so exploring the basic premise of the show the creators were obviously at a loss where to go from there. BSG never descended to the depths of silliness that LOST did, though. It just declined from "very good" to "a bit better than average".

DS9 was great though. A perfect example of what serialized TV storytelling should be, with several plots and subplots winding through all seven seasons but never becoming the impenetrable mess of continuity (other than perhaps the run-up to the series finale).
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Post by Skyquake87 »

DS9 was the only Star Trek show I liked. Never watched a full series or anything, just random episodes here and there and they were always good fun.

I couldn't get on with the new BSG. I could see it was good, but I dunno, a lot of people standing about glaring and, being americans , talking reeeeally quietly all the time. Seriously, what is it with Americans in tellyland? They're always so so quiet. I think I really struggle with over-earnest sci-fi. I think thats why I like Doctor Who, Life On Mars and Quantum Leap they don't play so hard and fast with sci-fi and are a bit easier to warm to, having much more relatable characters (at least for me - I'm right dozy me; but happy - probably why I liked Avengers so much!)

Oddly, I am really enjoying Walking Dead, which moves at a similar pace, is very slow and mixes in flashes of horror with lost of extended character interaction and not a lot actually happening. Especially in series two. God, I couldn't wait for them to get off that bloody farm!

Game Of Thrones i think is glorious too. I like it 'cos there's a nice balance of...everything,really. The fantasy doesn't outshine the drama, the sex doesn't overshadow the violence and there's a nice balance of character and moving the plot on too.


...not sure what this has to do with anything. Oh! I was looking through my DVDs to see if i could think of a big summer blockbuster that had a strong script and all the other things that Avengers and DOTM aren't, and I think, really I'd have to go back to T2 (the theatrical cut - the directors cut is insufferable with all those extra scenes that add sh*t all to the film). And even that isn't Shakespeare, and has Arnold's (ooh first name terms Cliffy!!! He is my real friend yes yes yes) brilliant acting in it.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Warcry wrote:It's very, very, very far on the grim side of the spectrum, almost as if the creators felt like they had to make up for the silliness of the original.
I must admit I've never understood that claim. Yes it's (apropiately for the situation) darker than the original. But there's still lots of very very funny stuff in it. Mostly dark gallows humour (though something like Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down borders on farce) rather than the hilarity of a dog shoved in a monkey costume, but still plenty of joking in the face of adversity. Pretty much anything Baltar does as he tries to squirm his way out of being found out or having to do anything dangerous is out and out comedy gold.
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Post by Warcry »

I don't want to go into to much detail since I don't want to spoil stuff for Cliffy, but the whole arc of the series is very dark -- every time the protagonists think they've made a gain it gets wiped away, every time they thing they've found a safe haven it gets destroyed, and they visit much the same horrors on the Cylons as well. Everyone suffers at least one smaller, more personal tragedy over the course of the show too, even the relatively minor characters like Kat or Duala. That's not to say that there aren't some brighter moments but on the whole the show is very downbeat, as it should be considering the subject matter.
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Post by Neuronutter »

Skyquake87 wrote:Oddly, I am really enjoying Walking Dead, which moves at a similar pace, is very slow and mixes in flashes of horror with lost of extended character interaction and not a lot actually happening. Especially in series two. God, I couldn't wait for them to get off that bloody farm!

Game Of Thrones i think is glorious too. I like it 'cos there's a nice balance of...everything,really. The fantasy doesn't outshine the drama, the sex doesn't overshadow the violence and there's a nice balance of character and moving the plot on too.
Walking Dead was my favourite new show the year it aired, though season 2 was a big step down and the whole Darabont firing thing nearly tanked the show. Season 2 was simply too slow and where they ended the season was silly. Having said that, the leaving the farm sequence was superb.

Game of Thrones was my favourite new show last year and season 2 was even better than 1.

My favourite new show this year is Newsroom, the new Aaron Sorkin show. If you don't like him then you won't like this, but I love it. Sure it displays it's liberal credentials a bit too strongly, but I agree with most things it says and, as a result, I enjoy it.
I must admit I've never understood that claim. Yes it's (apropiately for the situation) darker than the original. But there's still lots of very very funny stuff in it. Mostly dark gallows humour (though something like Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down borders on farce) rather than the hilarity of a dog shoved in a monkey costume, but still plenty of joking in the face of adversity. Pretty much anything Baltar does as he tries to squirm his way out of being found out or having to do anything dangerous is out and out comedy gold.
Yes it is a dark show, but I wouldn't call it grim. And Baltar is superb the entire way through. I think his character arc with everything he goes through, and from where he starts to where he ends, is one of my favourite parts of the show. The first time through he annoyed me. The second time he was brilliant.
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Post by Neuronutter »

Warcry wrote:I don't want to go into to much detail since I don't want to spoil stuff for Cliffy, but the whole arc of the series is very dark -- every time the protagonists think they've made a gain it gets wiped away, every time they thing they've found a safe haven it gets destroyed, and they visit much the same horrors on the Cylons as well. Everyone suffers at least one smaller, more personal tragedy over the course of the show too, even the relatively minor characters like Kat or Duala. That's not to say that there aren't some brighter moments but on the whole the show is very downbeat, as it should be considering the subject matter.
The mid point of season 4 was the absolute pinacle of this. I won't spoil it but it gets to where you're thinking, well what now? How are they going to end this from here? And it's brilliant. And there is so much that you don't, that you won't see coming. I've just watched it through, but talking about it again makes me want to start from the beginning. Again.
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Post by numbat »

For completeness I watched Incredible Hulk last night.

It was 'meh'. Certainly the most generic superhero film of the 'Avengers' bunch. It feels a lot more like a '90s blockbuster in style, with big-name actors, silly super-villain that makes no real sense and a totally formulaic plot and dark edgy comic feel.

The Hulk effects have certainly come on in Avengers, and I'm glad Ed Norton got sacked. He wasn't a very convincing Banne (why did he changed from being a damned good subtle actor to a 'look at me - hey - it's me!' type?).

And, yeah, I agree, Walking Dead really slowed down in the 2nd Season. I reread the comics after watching it, and it really struck me how much filler there is in the TV show. The ending of the season had me 'squee' but that's because I'm a fan of the comics and know what they're setting up (in some form - clearly far removed from the comics at this stage), but that's not how you deliver an ending for a new audience (and I assume only a miniscule proportion of the TV audience follow the comics).

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Post by Skyquake87 »

I think the worst thing about the Incredible Hulk is Liv Tyler. Her performance is weird, like she's not really into it and delivering her lines in a 'la la laa'; voice throughout. it is an utterly average film though, although the guy playing General Ross is good.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

It's a competent film, you can't really call it badly made or acted but there's little ooommph in it. I'm so glad they ignored Norton's wishes and cut out all the "I'M SO SAD" stuff as what's in the film more than conveys that.

It's amazing really, the cheap and chips TV show is still the best live action portrayal of the Hulk by far. Amazing what the right casting can do.

I'd say new BSG is by far and away my favourite show of the last decade, probably the first SF show since B5 that had me really pumped because it felt so new and fresh for TV (that's not to say there weren't lots and lots of great TV inbetween the two, but both felt like a next stage in the development of small screen science fiction rather than just being good).

And considering there's 70 odd episodes plus TV films there being only one out and out bad episode (that oddly everyone seems to agree is The Bad One as well) plus a couple of forgettable ones is a pretty impressive hit rate.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Thread split and moved, only the first four posts were really completely on topic before we got into the meat of the new thread...
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