Are We Ready For Star Wars VII? From Disney?

[Kungfu Dinobot]

The originals are far from cinematic perfection, I agree. But they're fun, and they don't take themselves too seriously. When they're bad, they're bad in entertaining ways. But the prequels are pretentious, they're boring at stretches, and when they're bad they're bad in a way that only a creator who's bought his own publicity and thinks that he can do no wrong can be bad.

I actually think Attack of the Clones is a fairly good movie, all things considered. But The Phantom Menace is just dreadful, an utter borefest full of terrible acting, dull action sequences, bad CGI and a plot so detached from everything else with the "Star Wars" label on it that you'd never guess that's what it was until you saw a lightsaber. And I can say that with full confidence because I actually just finished watching it not ten minutes before writing this comment (my wife, who'd never seen it before and really wanted to watch it, fell asleep about half-way through). And in spite of owning the DVD I honestly think I've only seen Revenge of the Sith once, so I can't say too much about that one other than that it was so dull that I've really never had much interest in watching it for a second time.

Ah, got it. It's just that when most people criticized the prequels, it's mostly of the "Rape My Childhood" variety that doesn't really have any intellectual quality.

Though I have a few points of my own to add.

1) I don't think any moment in the Originals are truly bad, but then again, I'm just a pleb:sweatdrop

2) Palpatine was awesome in the Prequels. I mean, he totally set the entire galaxy against each other. And his "I am the Senate!" line was more epic than anything Shane McCarthy can come up with:)

[Thunderwave]

J.J. Abrams doing Star Wars? I'm game.

As for the prequels they did "rape my childhood" but I've got other issues with them.

I was curious at Palpatine's rise to power and see it done as a ham fisted critique of the way US politics are working was appalling and a bit disappointing.

Anikin was a stupid, whiny brat and, honestly, had no redeeming qualities past the first movie. I spent the last two movies just waiting for Obi-Wan to slice him up. His fall would of been more moving and personal if, you know, we had actually liked him. Darth Vader had more redeeming qualities.

As for Palpatine's manipulating the galaxy...how frakin' stupid are these people? It's not like he took great pains to hide anything if you looked hard enough. I mean, to use a Transformers reference, Sixshot standing in some shadows is still frigggin Sixshot. Did no one talk to anyone else on either side of the war? No passing notes? No watching the friggin' news? I mean, if President Obama put a hood on and started trying to lead the Taliban via webcam someone would notice.

[Cliffjumper]

Kinda confused I got named there as I'm not particularly a SW fan; most of the sentiments I express I apply to most films - i.e. if the film came out in its' intended form without serious studio meddling that's the form it should stay in. Dune, screwed in the edit room? Love to see a Director's Cut. Lord of the Rings, made with complete director control? No way. h

And prequels... I've yet to see a good one I think; I have half a feeling I'm missing one or two obvious decent ones though that they're not leaping to mind would hint that either they're not that good but just not that bad or they're only nominally prequels in some kind of crazy shared-universe-minor-character way. I might just be thinking of Temple of Doom with its "yeh, it's set earlier but no-one gives a shit and it is pretty weak compared to the other ones" thing.

So really the SW prequels just tend to hit a lot of buttons for me and have a lot of entry points rather than me disproportionately liking the original films. If I could get the original trilogy as more-or-less released to cinemas in DVD covers that look like they're normal films rather than some sci-fi nerd wankfest I'd be happy, but I'd probably still be more proud of my set of Lester Musketeer DVDs.

[Kungfu Dinobot]

J.J. Abrams doing Star Wars? I'm game.

As for the prequels they did "rape my childhood" but I've got other issues with them.

I was curious at Palpatine's rise to power and see it done as a ham fisted critique of the way US politics are working was appalling and a bit disappointing.

Anikin was a stupid, whiny brat and, honestly, had no redeeming qualities past the first movie. I spent the last two movies just waiting for Obi-Wan to slice him up. His fall would of been more moving and personal if, you know, we had actually liked him. Darth Vader had more redeeming qualities.

As for Palpatine's manipulating the galaxy...how frakin' stupid are these people? It's not like he took great pains to hide anything if you looked hard enough. I mean, to use a Transformers reference, Sixshot standing in some shadows is still frigggin Sixshot. Did no one talk to anyone else on either side of the war? No passing notes? No watching the friggin' news? I mean, if President Obama put a hood on and started trying to lead the Taliban via webcam someone would notice.

I dunno, I always thought Palpatine (as Sidious) was "The Man Behind The Man" kind of guy, with Dooku being the face of the CIS. Of course, the fact that the all the other separatists didn't realise it (considering how public Palpatine is) is a plot hole.


Yeah, Anakin was a bitch, but maybe that's why Palpatine played him like a violin. Try to imagine Obi-Wan in the same situation:p

[Slayer-Fan123]

I dunno, I always thought Palpatine (as Sidious) was "The Man Behind The Man" kind of guy, with Dooku being the face of the CIS. Of course, the fact that the all the other separatists didn't realise it (considering how public Palpatine is) is a plot hole.


Yeah, Anakin was a bitch, but maybe that's why Palpatine played him like a violin. Try to imagine Obi-Wan in the same situation:p

That last point IS true. Anakin was easily manipulated, and the prequels REALLY showed that.

[angloconvoy]

To me, Leai's comment to Luke when he rescues her in the first one ("Aren't you kind of short to be a storm trooper?") made it clear that they were clones of some kind.

I just noticed this. And, err, you're kidding right? Because it's not like any military or peacekeeping force has ever had a minimum height requirement? I'd consider that a more logical progression of thought than "clones!" My real point is, don't bother trying to marry the two trilogies. Lucas didn't, he revised whatever parts he felt where necessary to do, whatever it was he was trying to do. I'm really not sure what that was, to be honest.

Oh, and upon rewatching the prequels recently, now that I've lost interest in the franchise in most respects, I was able to take them as films on their own merit. They are shining examples of lazy sci-fi that you'd give up on after half an episode if it was a series being run on Sci-fi (or however they're spelling it these days). The job of a true prequel is to show how we got to where we first met the characters and the world they live in. If you use it to completely rewrite the history of now beloved characters, you've failed in what should really be a very simple task. If you sort out some horrible butcherings of beloved characters I might give it a pass (Sabertooth in that Wolverine prequel), but don't make a story showing how a shining example of pure and good Jedi went down a dark path but then boil it down to "Yoda thought something was a bit off when an 8 year old boy was frightened to be ripped away from his mother, his home, and even his goddamn planet", and "Palpetine said, 'Kill some kids' then went 'Do it. Do it.' like Ben Stiller in Starsky and Hutch".

How did the prequels show Anakin was easily manipulated? They didn't show it at all, they basically just told us and expected us to accept it. Unless you're somehow talking about all those cartoons and crap that the apologists keep saying you have to watch before taking the prequels on their own merits, and that if we saw those we'd understand how much of a badass General Wheezy Fourarmington is. The movie could have shown him convincingly kick the crap out of a few people in about 30 seconds and shown that. They didn't. They just told us this guy is tough then expect us to be impressed when he got the crap kicked out of him by the hero of the series.

[Cliffjumper]

That is pretty much my problem with the prequels summed up. They're so damn mechanical, sterile and lifeless. Everything is told to us and not shown. Everything was too squeaky-clean and bland - notably there not even being the slight roguish element Han and Lando bring to the original. And as for any glimpse of wit or genuine humour (rather than outright slapstick... Again, Jar-Jar is an easy punchbag but mainly because he's just about impossible to defend).

And, like you say, if they weren't Star Wars films (which would probably be a relatively easy rewrite in a 50 Shades of Grey sort-of way) no-one would have watched them.

[Summerhayes]

Considering Abrams just made Star Wars when he was given the Trek license anyway, I'm not too bothered.

P.S Am I the only one who liked his Star Trek?

[ganon578]

Considering Abrams just made Star Wars when he was given the Trek license anyway, I'm not too bothered.

P.S Am I the only one who liked his Star Trek?

I liked it too!

[Notabot]

Same here.

And as for the "Aren't you short" line, it's not like Luke was a midget or really that short of a guy (from what I can remember. Haven't seen it in a while.) Of course I didn't think "Clones!" before the prequels, but in light of them, it brought that scene to mind. It was sort of a last hope that Lucas was a genius who really did have a lot of this stuff in mind when he did the first ones.

[inflatable dalek]

I think the idea of them as clones from before the prequels, possibly the original novelization? Certainly I've heard dedicated fan friends refer to them as such before Phantom Menace.

Abrams Trek is a fine fun summer flick. All the depth of a puddle but exactly what Star Trek needed to bring it back into the mainstream. A lot of fans don't like it, much as with Who fans and the new series or our lot and the Bay films. And whilst in all three cases there are many who can come up for good arguments for why they don't like it, there's also a lot of "New stuff scares me!" style responses.

[Denyer]

Not keen on the time-travel/alt-universe angle or much outside limited selections from the Pocket Books ranges when it comes to Trek these days, but really enjoyed the film as fluff and it doesn't seem to have to be an either-or choice for the licensing parties.

[inflatable dalek]

It also managed to be a prequel, sequel and remake all in one package. Beat that Lucas.

[Thunderwave]

Abrams Trek was just what the franchise needed. The old Trek was way, WAY too bogged down with baggage from the various series. By reinventing it he got to establish a new set of rules as well as new versions of older, beloved characters who's actors have either gotten too old or died to play the parts anymore. All around it's a win and I'm looking forward to the new movie this summer.

[angloconvoy]

I think the fact it was massively popular and people who wouldn't previously have been caught dead watching Star Trek went as far as going to the movies to see it proves that we weren't the only ones who liked it. I don't even feel the need to criticise it in any way, it brought life to a defunct series which had long ago devolved to the butt of a joke in popular consensus. And it was a great bit of Sci-Fi action. You can say it had all the depth of a puddle, but then so did about 95% of all Star Trek that came before it.

Was it Star Wars? Can't say I thought so. I do think Abrams has proved he can make a decent action flick and keep an ensemble piece tight enough that he'd do a better job than hid predecessor.

Oh, and Luke wasn't exactly a midget, but ground troops are often required to be above average height in an army, often close to six feet. Pilots, on the other hand (as Luke was aiming to become) are often shorter (and within strict height limits on either end of tall and short to maximise efficiency in the machine they're operating). So I always took it as read that the empire ran a fairly standard army.

[Summerhayes]

To weigh in on the clone thing, I took it to mean he was just below regulation height. I'm a short guy myself, and I've been turned down for that sort of thing.

All the depth of a puddle

Yeah, its certainly not my favourite bit of Star Trek as it required next to no thought, but I enjoyed it for what it was and in my opinion it did a good job with all the characters.

As for the approach that people are put off just because it was popular, I can kind of understand that. It annoys me that everyone wears Marvel comics t-shirts at the moment so when I wear one it just looks like I'm being fashionable, rather than that I have an unhealthy love for Cyclops.Whenever I see some kid with the X-Men on his shirt and I just want to punch him out and scream "I BET YOU THINK CYCLOPS SHOOTS LASERS, DON'T YOU?" Then kick his teeth in and say "THEY'RE CONCUSSIVE FORCE LIKE THIS"

*ahem* so yeah, I can understand the "I liked it before it was cool" mentality a bit.

[Cliffjumper]

Also have to dogpile on Notabot on the height thing I'm afraid; regulation height is fairly common in most military branches. That said, I always thought it was an odd line as most of the Stormtroopers don't seem to be exactly towering and it's bit too cute, like she already knows she's being rescued or something. Your home planet's just been blown the **** up, woman, and you think you're being hooked out to have a hole lasered in your skull, reign it in.

[angloconvoy]

Cyclops' "concussive force" comes out in red beams, so laser actually makes more sense logically. They only say concussive force to make it sound non-lethal and kid friendly. But then, as you point out, punching a kid in the face uses concussive force and isn't exactly kid friendly. So in short, I never much liked Cyclops.

Cliffy's point has made me think of something. If we pretend it's possible to apply logic to Lucas' scripts for a second, maybe Luke wasn't even short for a stormtrooper and she's just baiting her captors. Maybe she hadn't had a sound beating in a couple of hours and was getting bored, I don't know.

[Summerhayes]

One off my favourite bits from Blue Harvest was the riff on this scene. "Well stay here and rot, you stuck-up bitch."

[inflatable dalek]

ANd the first thing Disney have done is tell the rest of the 3D reissues to **** off.