So...videogames, or figures?
- Knightdramon
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So...videogames, or figures?
Inspired by the general comments, by Hasbro, that kids are more into videogames at the moment than action figures, and by my own personal experience, I'm kind of curious to see where you all are in this argument.
On one hand, I firmly believe that videogames are, nowadays, cheap for what they offer you. DLC bullshit aside [I do hate companies who do that, and Capcom in particular seems to suffer], there are hours and hours of "fun" to be had on a videogame.
On the other hand, a figure [in our case, a transformers figure] will offer you an exciting first hour or so [figuring out the transformation, posing both modes], then a curious first week or fortnight, in which you discover more joints, posing, comparing it with other figures and so on, all in increments of 5-10 minutes "playing" time.
In my time in the UK, I have clocked more hours playing Dead Space 2 on the PS3 and Pokemon Black 2 on an emulator than transforming MP Red Alert. MP Rodimus gets fiddled with a lot, though
Moving to a new house soon on my own, I found that I was very, very anxious in getting a nintendo handheld and a pokemon game to fill up my hours than figuring out which figures I'd bring along.
What's your stance on this? Considering that, on average, a car MP figure costs like 32 GBP while an average VG costs 35-39 GBP in stores around here?
On one hand, I firmly believe that videogames are, nowadays, cheap for what they offer you. DLC bullshit aside [I do hate companies who do that, and Capcom in particular seems to suffer], there are hours and hours of "fun" to be had on a videogame.
On the other hand, a figure [in our case, a transformers figure] will offer you an exciting first hour or so [figuring out the transformation, posing both modes], then a curious first week or fortnight, in which you discover more joints, posing, comparing it with other figures and so on, all in increments of 5-10 minutes "playing" time.
In my time in the UK, I have clocked more hours playing Dead Space 2 on the PS3 and Pokemon Black 2 on an emulator than transforming MP Red Alert. MP Rodimus gets fiddled with a lot, though
Moving to a new house soon on my own, I found that I was very, very anxious in getting a nintendo handheld and a pokemon game to fill up my hours than figuring out which figures I'd bring along.
What's your stance on this? Considering that, on average, a car MP figure costs like 32 GBP while an average VG costs 35-39 GBP in stores around here?
Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.
- Skyquake87
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With the caveat that as an adult, I don't really play with toys so much anymore (much as I'd like to on somedays, with 7 cats running around and a Girlfriend whom clutters up the house with work related stuff its not really practical) , my enjoyment of TFs these days comes from the innovation. I like asethetics that grab me and am surprised with the fairly sizeable collection of Prime toys I have (finishing issues aside, I do like how they've taken the slightly unworkable Animated aesthetic and beefed it up) and that the same line has made the easy to dismiss Legion scale worth the bother.
I don't own a console or do much in the way of gaming, odd bouts of Tetris, Pac-Man and Diamond Quest (or whatever it is) that are on my phone aside. Gaming passed me by as a child. I just wasn't that into it. I had an Amstrad 464 (with GREEN SCREEN MONITOR oooh) and a ton of games for it, but when it died I never replaced it. I was much more into comic books and music by that stage.
Transformers for me are like all the other things I'm into, something to constantly revisit and explore. Like all 'new toys' their appeal waxes and wanes from time to time, but occasionally I'll dig out a figure or twelve and remind myself that these things are actually pretty bloody cool. And, in my head, I can imagine great big fighty space battles and so on.
Video Games give you all the stuff that you'd otherwise use your imagination for. Everything's there - the characters, the environment and so on. You play videogames in a slightly less imaginative way, I feel. They do, on the other hand, teach you a great many things about timing and strategy and problem solving. And because its so busy with stuff going on around you all the time, it can feel like they are the better alternative to more traditional pursuits. Especially now with all this interactive stuff where you get to interact with other players. i can see why they are winning the war over traditional toys and games - and action figures in particular which really are starting to die out as the toy aisles tell you. The only stuff that's surviving are construction style sets, which in some way tap into the sort of literal world building that you get in some types of video games. These make an interesting comparrison to games where you world build as the things have similar principles - here are the parts , lets see what you can do with them.
The more I think about it, the more I think play is becoming more socialable. its like with music. Whilst album sales and so on decline, so the live interactive experience of seeing a band has become more popular. Witness the way Glastonbury now sells out in a stupid amount of time - people have to be there to experience things. Its not enough to simply enjoy listening to a band at home. Interesting times.
I don't own a console or do much in the way of gaming, odd bouts of Tetris, Pac-Man and Diamond Quest (or whatever it is) that are on my phone aside. Gaming passed me by as a child. I just wasn't that into it. I had an Amstrad 464 (with GREEN SCREEN MONITOR oooh) and a ton of games for it, but when it died I never replaced it. I was much more into comic books and music by that stage.
Transformers for me are like all the other things I'm into, something to constantly revisit and explore. Like all 'new toys' their appeal waxes and wanes from time to time, but occasionally I'll dig out a figure or twelve and remind myself that these things are actually pretty bloody cool. And, in my head, I can imagine great big fighty space battles and so on.
Video Games give you all the stuff that you'd otherwise use your imagination for. Everything's there - the characters, the environment and so on. You play videogames in a slightly less imaginative way, I feel. They do, on the other hand, teach you a great many things about timing and strategy and problem solving. And because its so busy with stuff going on around you all the time, it can feel like they are the better alternative to more traditional pursuits. Especially now with all this interactive stuff where you get to interact with other players. i can see why they are winning the war over traditional toys and games - and action figures in particular which really are starting to die out as the toy aisles tell you. The only stuff that's surviving are construction style sets, which in some way tap into the sort of literal world building that you get in some types of video games. These make an interesting comparrison to games where you world build as the things have similar principles - here are the parts , lets see what you can do with them.
The more I think about it, the more I think play is becoming more socialable. its like with music. Whilst album sales and so on decline, so the live interactive experience of seeing a band has become more popular. Witness the way Glastonbury now sells out in a stupid amount of time - people have to be there to experience things. Its not enough to simply enjoy listening to a band at home. Interesting times.
Transformers are mainly visual and occasionally interactive background clutter whilst I'm doing other things -- a load of engineered hard angles that can be posed is something to flit to. Considering downsizing a lot of the stuff that's stored at the moment.
For the most part games are something I might get around to in retirement, they're usually only fun playing against someone else, and hardly anyone's going to skid towards death wishing they'd spent more time on them.
Can see why kids aren't getting into figures, though -- the value for money is getting pretty minimal.
For the most part games are something I might get around to in retirement, they're usually only fun playing against someone else, and hardly anyone's going to skid towards death wishing they'd spent more time on them.
Can see why kids aren't getting into figures, though -- the value for money is getting pretty minimal.
- Skyquake87
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- Auntie Slag
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I'd argue that if you can imbue an action figure with its own personality (in the eyes of a son, nephew etc), then that figure can take on a magical property, and they'll love that little Sparkabot Guzzle, Animorphs Cassie the Wolf, Seaspray as much as any rabid collector would love um... mint pointy-nosed Swoop that you could never get in the UK for instance.
Probably more so.
Probably more so.
Certainly some of that, but in terms of creative play being the characters is as of much interest as getting lots of figures and bashing them together for younger kids... and the older ones have probably already moved on to games and circumventing porn blocks on phones. It's a smaller window to market to, plus prices are steadily rising.
- inflatable dalek
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I think the last time I played a computer game with any regularity was when I last had a phone with Snake on it.
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Yep, the value for money aspect is staggering, as is the entertainment value. GTA V is, what, the same as a Leader class toy in terms of price and (I'm not a big gamer, so assuming it's even as playable as VC or SA) could keep a kid occupied for months; insert FIFA for younger kids. In the UK especially football in general is probably more popular with the target demographic than toys and games combined. TBH I would say we're all predisposed against the idea of a Transformer being value for money - if we like it, if we have the funds and the means, we buy it; the idea of whether you're going to get £13's playvalue out of a Deluxe doesn't enter the equation because Jazz is your favourite character/you want the core cast from TF:P/you have disposable and haven't indulged a Transformer for a month etc. TBH even then I've been largely put off buying anything new for some time as the UK RRP of most has gone up as the basic 'worthiness' (looks, finish, durability, size) of the figures have gone down. It's going to take some ****ing impressive designs in TF4 to swing me back around.
That said, consoles are probably the next dinosaur. Smartphones seem to be the teenage drug of choice, with simple but addictive games with the added bonus of social networking thrown in. Same way the web's moved over to simpler stuff like Tumblr, Twitter, infographics, content aggregators, gossip, lists, social networking pages etc. as opposed to bespoke websites I can see consoles getting hit in 5-10 years' time. Obviously there'll always be a market for photorealistic games and the like the same way there is still for dedicated websites it wouldn't surprise me to see kids not as interested in them.
That said, consoles are probably the next dinosaur. Smartphones seem to be the teenage drug of choice, with simple but addictive games with the added bonus of social networking thrown in. Same way the web's moved over to simpler stuff like Tumblr, Twitter, infographics, content aggregators, gossip, lists, social networking pages etc. as opposed to bespoke websites I can see consoles getting hit in 5-10 years' time. Obviously there'll always be a market for photorealistic games and the like the same way there is still for dedicated websites it wouldn't surprise me to see kids not as interested in them.
- Knightdramon
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I believe VG companies are trying to tap into that aspect as well; social networking, but aren't doing so well or it's not as well received.
But there's always room for it to improve or change. Anybody remember mobile phones 10 years ago? Teenagers were hardly interested, in my time, in a phone you can carry around that only calls and texts people. Cue in integrated, overpriced photocameras, mp3 capabilities, video capabilities, internet, applications, connectivity with social media and a billion other aspects that would never cross your mind if somebody said "mobile phone" ten years ago, and you have today's mobile phone.
Same can be said for consoles. 10 years ago [circa PS2? I think], little to no internet connectivity, much smaller disc storage space per game, bare bones consoles compared to today, split screen mutiplayer if you were lucky, arguably worse graphics than today...you get the drift.
Consoles and mobile phones, ie depended entirely on technology, shift and change with the times in a manner that traditional toys do not. Sure, at the end of the day, ROTF LDR Prime is way, way more sophisticated than, say, Energon LDR Prime, but at the end of the day, they don't really offer anything different between them. A transforming toy with more parts and detail is a vague approximation of the progress between them.
But there's always room for it to improve or change. Anybody remember mobile phones 10 years ago? Teenagers were hardly interested, in my time, in a phone you can carry around that only calls and texts people. Cue in integrated, overpriced photocameras, mp3 capabilities, video capabilities, internet, applications, connectivity with social media and a billion other aspects that would never cross your mind if somebody said "mobile phone" ten years ago, and you have today's mobile phone.
Same can be said for consoles. 10 years ago [circa PS2? I think], little to no internet connectivity, much smaller disc storage space per game, bare bones consoles compared to today, split screen mutiplayer if you were lucky, arguably worse graphics than today...you get the drift.
Consoles and mobile phones, ie depended entirely on technology, shift and change with the times in a manner that traditional toys do not. Sure, at the end of the day, ROTF LDR Prime is way, way more sophisticated than, say, Energon LDR Prime, but at the end of the day, they don't really offer anything different between them. A transforming toy with more parts and detail is a vague approximation of the progress between them.
Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.
I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment.Knightdramon wrote:On one hand, I firmly believe that videogames are, nowadays, cheap for what they offer you. DLC bullshit aside [I do hate companies who do that, and Capcom in particular seems to suffer], there are hours and hours of "fun" to be had on a videogame.
On the other hand, a figure [in our case, a transformers figure] will offer you an exciting first hour or so [figuring out the transformation, posing both modes], then a curious first week or fortnight, in which you discover more joints, posing, comparing it with other figures and so on, all in increments of 5-10 minutes "playing" time.
A good video game will give you lots and lots of fun, I agree. When I was in high school my friends and I played a lot of multiplayer on the N64 -- I logged around 200 hours of Perfect Dark multiplayer, probably around 50 of Smash Bros, etc... But there are also games that you play with for two or three hours, say "this is shit" and never touch again. A good game will keep you coming back, and a bad one won't and will be a huge waste of money.
But you know...the same thing holds true for a good toy. I got Hun-grrr in 1988 and never stopped playing with him. I'm sure I've spent way more than 200 hours with him over my life.
(I do suspect that most of us have so many toys by this point that we don't play with them as much as we 'could', though -- they just go on a shelf and get forgotten because you already have 200 or 300 of them.)
Toys also have the advantage of being decorative. If I'm not actively playing with a good toy I can still look at it, but if I'm not actively playing Mass Effect or Zelda the games just sit on a DVD rack (and in many cases not even that, since I don't have the physical disc for all my current-gen games).
I'd say that a good game and a good toy can bring an equal amount of enjoyment, but the emphasis needs to be on good. There are far too many poor efforts in both categories for my liking.
I think you have cause and effect backwards -- toy prices are rising because sale volumes are shrinking, and Hasbro needs to make a higher margin on every toy they sell in order to stay profitable.Denyer wrote:Can see why kids aren't getting into figures, though -- the value for money is getting pretty minimal.
Have to agree with this. Compare the launch of the WiiU or the impending PS4/Xbox One releases to the absolute pandemonium that we saw when the last generation of consoles launched. I don't want to say that nobody cares, but aside from hardcore gamers that's the truth.Cliffjumper wrote:That said, consoles are probably the next dinosaur. Smartphones seem to be the teenage drug of choice, with simple but addictive games with the added bonus of social networking thrown in.
I think handheld systems like the Vita and 3DS will die before the consoles do, because smartphone games are direct competition that (a) run on the hardware that kids already own and (b) cost 1/40th what a new game from Nintendo or Sony will run you. But I don't see a bright future for consoles either. Microsoft especially is going off in entirely the wrong direction, building so many unwanted features into their new console that they're running the risk of pricing themselves out of the market.
I mean, seriously, who wants to awkwardly try to use their Xbox to watch cable TV? Are any of the smartphone generation going to use a game controller to write up Facebook/Twitter posts? Who thinks it's necessary or even a good idea for the Xbox to be voice-activated? Does anyone want a Kinect? I'd say only 1/20 users are interested in these features, but Microsoft made them mandatory and jacked up the system price to include them...why, exactly?
I would fervently disagree with that. When I was a kid and even when I was in high school, "playing a video game with someone" meant that they were sitting on the couch beside you and you were shouting taunts and slurs back and forth as the game went on. That was social. Nowadays you "play" with random fourteen year olds more interested in shouting obscenities and teabagging than playing the game, or "play" with friends on the other side of the city or other side of the world. In my opinion the decline of split-screen multiplayer has made gaming more anonymous and antisocial, not less, and the modern multiplayer game might as well be played against foul-mouthed AIs for all the social interaction you get out of it.Skyquake87 wrote:The more I think about it, the more I think play is becoming more socialable. its like with music. Whilst album sales and so on decline, so the live interactive experience of seeing a band has become more popular. Witness the way Glastonbury now sells out in a stupid amount of time - people have to be there to experience things. Its not enough to simply enjoy listening to a band at home. Interesting times.
I totally agree with Warcry on the social aspect of modern video games. I hate online multi-player. It takes forever to load, can drop at random times, and I either wind up playing a 5 star pro who annihilates me in five seconds, or someone who isn't sure which hand is supposed to run the X button and wanders in circles until I quit. And both are usually filled with profanity if I accidentally leave the audio on.
I really miss sitting down next to someone and playing a video game with them. There are some games you can still do that with (especially on the Wii), and I would much rather play a mediocre game with someone beside me than a fantastic game on-line.
I really miss sitting down next to someone and playing a video game with them. There are some games you can still do that with (especially on the Wii), and I would much rather play a mediocre game with someone beside me than a fantastic game on-line.
Costs are also rising -- moving labour to the next cheapest source of exploitable workers is expensive in itself, and raw materials and shipping increases all add up even before corners start being cut on the finish. The basic cost of stocking something on a shelf of a basic quality, almost irrespective of size point, is making the lowest price point unviable. Pound/dollar store toys end up removing quality from the equation completely.Warcry wrote:toy prices are rising because sale volumes are shrinking
On the big ticket items (Masterpiece) I agree there's gouging going on -- Soundwave and cassettes isn't much less than importing a Takara Metroplex, and Acid Storm (£75) is the exact same thing as Skywarp, which Argos flogged off for £20.
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For me personally, I think I gravitate more towards games over figures because of usage per $. Most of my Transformers are bought, fiddled with for a week or so, then they sit on my shelf once all the nuances have been exploited. They are good display pieces though, so from that point of view, my Transformers get more usage than my games. From a functionality perspective, I have a lot more interaction with my game library than I do with my Transformers.
The other thing that drives me to games is the ease of trade-ins towards new games. I can go to a handful of shops that are 5 minutes from my house, trade in some things, and get something new. As for Transformers, I need to turn them over through this site or eBay, then ship, then subtract PayPal and eBay fees. Then I can use the excess money to get new figures. Games are just easier for me to switch around.
And as far as TV on an Xbox goes - no one is buying that machine simply to stream TV. I agree that Microsoft is taking a huge misstep going in that direction. Why buy a $400-500 machine when you can buy a Roku box for 25% of the price to do the same thing?
The other thing that drives me to games is the ease of trade-ins towards new games. I can go to a handful of shops that are 5 minutes from my house, trade in some things, and get something new. As for Transformers, I need to turn them over through this site or eBay, then ship, then subtract PayPal and eBay fees. Then I can use the excess money to get new figures. Games are just easier for me to switch around.
Completely agree that the handhelds will be out before consoles. I own a 3DS and absolutely enjoy it... but I also don't care for the lack of tactile buttons on a phone. Most non-gamer people nowadays have more easily learned to adjust without buttons. Consoles to me will simply last longer just because of the sheer number of people that play things like Call of Duty. I don't see those numbers falling off a cliff anytime soon.Warcry wrote:I think handheld systems like the Vita and 3DS will die before the consoles do, because smartphone games are direct competition that (a) run on the hardware that kids already own and (b) cost 1/40th what a new game from Nintendo or Sony will run you. But I don't see a bright future for consoles either. Microsoft especially is going off in entirely the wrong direction, building so many unwanted features into their new console that they're running the risk of pricing themselves out of the market.
I mean, seriously, who wants to awkwardly try to use their Xbox to watch cable TV? Are any of the smartphone generation going to use a game controller to write up Facebook/Twitter posts? Who thinks it's necessary or even a good idea for the Xbox to be voice-activated? Does anyone want a Kinect? I'd say only 1/20 users are interested in these features, but Microsoft made them mandatory and jacked up the system price to include them...why, exactly?
And as far as TV on an Xbox goes - no one is buying that machine simply to stream TV. I agree that Microsoft is taking a huge misstep going in that direction. Why buy a $400-500 machine when you can buy a Roku box for 25% of the price to do the same thing?
Me too, on all accounts. As for online, I really only play with a friend of mine who is 2000 miles away from me. And usually we play the modes that only the two of us are in, or we mute everyone else. Couch co-op has always been fun, and I'm looking forward to getting back to it with some Diablo III.Notabot wrote:I totally agree with Warcry on the social aspect of modern video games. I hate online multi-player. It takes forever to load, can drop at random times, and I either wind up playing a 5 star pro who annihilates me in five seconds, or someone who isn't sure which hand is supposed to run the X button and wanders in circles until I quit. And both are usually filled with profanity if I accidentally leave the audio on.
I really miss sitting down next to someone and playing a video game with them. There are some games you can still do that with (especially on the Wii), and I would much rather play a mediocre game with someone beside me than a fantastic game on-line.
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It really depends on each person I guess. For me,
Now I really just don't have much time playing. Yes, I still have PS3 but it's pretty much a DVD player now. I also have Wii but they are pretty much for kids and I may play with them if mom allow them to play. I would also say games these days are so expensive. A new game cost more than $50 and only good for a little while and done (campaign/story mode are so short now and no, I don't like/care multi-player). Waiting for Greatest Hit at $19.99 is another option but back to the beginning, I just don't have the time. Still couple games I want to pick up and try (such as FoC) but it always can wait. Guess I pretty much out grown the video games either. Being played these games since the very first Nintendo red white famicom. Final Fantasy for instance, I played it from the very first one until the 10th and then called it quit.
TF On the other hand. Since I don't buy MP, Takara stuffs, and the exclusives (not counting the minority 3rd party stuffs), the regular cost for a voyager is around $20 and $13-15 for a deluxe. Price aside, I also found I have more time enjoying them since I can randomly just take one down, fiddle with it, and then put it back.
Now I really just don't have much time playing. Yes, I still have PS3 but it's pretty much a DVD player now. I also have Wii but they are pretty much for kids and I may play with them if mom allow them to play. I would also say games these days are so expensive. A new game cost more than $50 and only good for a little while and done (campaign/story mode are so short now and no, I don't like/care multi-player). Waiting for Greatest Hit at $19.99 is another option but back to the beginning, I just don't have the time. Still couple games I want to pick up and try (such as FoC) but it always can wait. Guess I pretty much out grown the video games either. Being played these games since the very first Nintendo red white famicom. Final Fantasy for instance, I played it from the very first one until the 10th and then called it quit.
TF On the other hand. Since I don't buy MP, Takara stuffs, and the exclusives (not counting the minority 3rd party stuffs), the regular cost for a voyager is around $20 and $13-15 for a deluxe. Price aside, I also found I have more time enjoying them since I can randomly just take one down, fiddle with it, and then put it back.
As far as video game price, I've got such a backlog of games that it's usually not a problem to wait for the games I want to play to go way down in price. I typically try to keep video game purchases around $20, and I think I've only ever paid the initial release price on one game. Even with that one, I had a couple trade ins and a coupon, so I still didn't technically pay release price.
And I try to do the same thing with Transformers since I've got so stinkin' many of them now. I'd say about 80% of my collection was bought below retail, and that's the biggest thrill for me now. I go for figures I like, but try to catch them on sale in one form or another.
Ultimately, I'd say that most of my video games give me more entertainment for the price, but Warcry's point of the toys being decorative is totally right. I've never had anyone complement my video games, but the TF collection has dropped several jaws over the last few years.
And I try to do the same thing with Transformers since I've got so stinkin' many of them now. I'd say about 80% of my collection was bought below retail, and that's the biggest thrill for me now. I go for figures I like, but try to catch them on sale in one form or another.
Ultimately, I'd say that most of my video games give me more entertainment for the price, but Warcry's point of the toys being decorative is totally right. I've never had anyone complement my video games, but the TF collection has dropped several jaws over the last few years.
I only see the loss of imagination needed by a child, so the lack of its development.
I consider lego to be one of the smartest toys, once you build your own things after learning by the stuff you bouggt, but even action figures let children create a setting / story by their own imagination... still lego and playmobil being better than cartoon influenced transformers and gi joe ( all this of.my era)
With video games, you get easy pre cooked entertainment. Just get through the pre developed story by someone others idea... even if multiple endings.
This is why i want my kids to start late on video games and i hope traditional toys will survive.
For myself, i collect the figures, but hardly ever unpack them. And i do not play video games.
I consider lego to be one of the smartest toys, once you build your own things after learning by the stuff you bouggt, but even action figures let children create a setting / story by their own imagination... still lego and playmobil being better than cartoon influenced transformers and gi joe ( all this of.my era)
With video games, you get easy pre cooked entertainment. Just get through the pre developed story by someone others idea... even if multiple endings.
This is why i want my kids to start late on video games and i hope traditional toys will survive.
For myself, i collect the figures, but hardly ever unpack them. And i do not play video games.
[sigpic][/sigpic] Isch bin dabbei!
I hate it that many people prefer their mobile phone above everything else nowadays. The only thing many of them are doing with those phones is sending totally unimportant messages or they want to check their Facebook every minute. Even when you're in a conversation with those people they're not paying attention to you. The only thing which is important for them is their phone or social media.
And about social media.. well.. I think I might be the only one in the western world who doesn't have Facebook, Twitter, etcetera. You don't want to know how and how many people abuse such social media. Many wrong things happen because of it. I don't know what's happening to the world these days, but I don't really like it. I might sound like an old man right now, but I'm only 19. What I just wrote is just what I stand for.
And about social media.. well.. I think I might be the only one in the western world who doesn't have Facebook, Twitter, etcetera. You don't want to know how and how many people abuse such social media. Many wrong things happen because of it. I don't know what's happening to the world these days, but I don't really like it. I might sound like an old man right now, but I'm only 19. What I just wrote is just what I stand for.