Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:15 am
SPOILER! (select to read)It was a little odd, but right before Han said it, I knew his name was going to be Ben. I don't know what kind of sense it makes, but it does.
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SPOILER! (select to read)It was a little odd, but right before Han said it, I knew his name was going to be Ben. I don't know what kind of sense it makes, but it does.
When you write it down like that I can see the attraction, but on screen it just didn't work for me. If he'd been more accomplished around those flashes of vulnerability I think it would have carried off better, but the way he was shown I'm not entirely sure why anyone is afraid of him or listens to what he has to say. Though General What'shisname basically ignored him at all turns, so obviously he agrees with me!ganon578 wrote:I dunno, I was kind of intrigued by Kylo Ren. He surely is whiny (family lineage though?) but not a typical Star Wars villain we have seen before - incredibly powerful, skilled, and a complete threat. He's conflicted by the light side, and has significant trouble dealing with that, and he seems quite untrained. I think his instability makes him interesting. He loses to Rey and Finn, which I think may be his wake-up call for increasing his power and depth in the dark side. I saw him as more of a 'raw' bad guy who hasn't seen his full potential yet. It was interesting to see a bad guy that struggles with the pull of the good in him, not the good guy that is pulled to the bad.
Where it really doesn't work for me is that Finn was apparently brainwashed since infancy to be a killing machine. Surely the troops get a lot of training and evaluation in that time. I'm not sure how he could have made it through all of that and still piss himself the first time he sees action. He should have been screened out and reassigned as a tech or some other, non-front line job if stormies are really the badass best of the best like has always been implied.ganon578 wrote:Finn was not quite there, but I liked him anyways. I hope he grows in Episode VIII. You're right though, for a guy who trained as a soldier, he flips between brave and scared a lot.
Yeah, Poe was super-cool even though he was in quite a bit less of the movie than I'd expected. I'd expected him to be Lando-tier but he was closer to Wedge.ganon578 wrote:I really liked Poe a lot more than I anticipated.
I loved this guy - clearly seething that their careful plans are going t*ts up at every turn because 'mister-ooh-look-at-me-i've-got-the-force-and-a-silly-mask' has a "better" idea...!Warcry wrote:Though General What'shisname basically ignored him at all turns, so obviously he agrees with me!
It really goes to show how low Ren's status is in the First Order, too. Can you imagine Vader standing there and taking it while Piet or Veers or Jerjerrod or one of the other legion of interchangeable nobodies under his command shit-talked him to the Emperor and contradicted his plans while he was in the room? They'd be on the receiving end of a Force-choke before they got the second sentence out.Skyquake87 wrote:I loved this guy - clearly seething that their careful plans are going t*ts up at every turn because 'mister-ooh-look-at-me-i've-got-the-force-and-a-silly-mask' has a "better" idea...!
...was that nobody else on the bad side was any better. The general seemed to know what was up, but he was so unimportant that I don't think he even got named on-screen. And Phasma was no better, only getting about three lines in a vain attempt to manufacture her as the next Boba Fett-style do-nothing-who-becomes-a-merchandising-hit.inflatable dalek wrote:Ben Ren being a bit crap wouldn't be so much of a problem if any of the other villains were even slightly capable. I mean, look at the guy in the Peter Cushing role. A ginger whose balls haven't dropped yet.
I think they felt obliged since the film had lifted all of ANH's plot to that point, but you're right. It would have worked a lot better without. The stupidly-huge Death Star ripoff never actually felt like a threat because (in spite of blowing up several planets) it never actually hurt any of the characters we're supposed to root for. Nuking Alderaan in the original was a gut-punch because it tore Leia's heart out, but I honestly couldn't even tell you the name of the place that got turned into an asteroid belt here. Rey's rescue, keeping Luke's location from the baddies and Han trying to redeem his son were all way more interesting and compelling plotlines. Unfortunately, I guess they decided that none of those were sufficiently a "blockbuster" way to end the movie.inflatable dalek wrote:It didn't need a doomsday weapon, do these people not remember that Empire--the most popular of the films--is just two hours of the heroes running away from the villains badly? They didn't feel compelled to reveal that Cloud City could suck off suns in order to add an Epic Threat there.
Hey, it runs in the family. Watching ANH recently, Luke is pretty damn whiny too. Not Padawan Anakin whiny, but whiny. Why is Leia the only Skywalker to have her shit together?Warcry wrote:Honestly though, I think the main problem is that he just doesn't fit the narrative. The movie tries so hard to be A New Hope-redux, but the main villain calls back more to the whiny prequel Anakin that nobody liked.
Saw it a second time over the weekend, and I really liked Leia in this role. She played a fantastic part.Warcry wrote:On another note, Leia fit the "wise old general" role way better than I thought she would. She's not quite as awesome as Rieekan but way cooler than Dodonna, Madine or Ackbar ever were.
I heard the voice and knew it was Ackbar. I don't know how Mon Cals age, but I see what you mean.Warcry wrote:Speaking of Ackbar, am I the only one who thought that he looked younger here than in Return of the Jedi? I'd actually assumed it was some other Mon Calamari until I saw it was credited as Ackbar.
I didn't really care for General Hux on the first viewing. I saw him as coming a bit over the top screaming at everyone and really trying to assert dominance. On the second go, I liked him a bit more.inflatable dalek wrote:Ben Ren being a bit crap wouldn't be so much of a problem if any of the other villains were even slightly capable. I mean, look at the guy in the Peter Cushing role. A ginger whose balls haven't dropped yet.
It's funny that 4 out of the 7 movies are 'blow up the giant space thing'. Hopefully there won't be any more rehashes of that story in VIII & IX. The ones that don't end in a trench run are actually pretty entertaining endings. With ANH being the first movie, it's easy to see the Death Star run as a last ditch effort to save the day on impossible odds, which also served as a huge sigh of relief for moviegoers. ROTJ basically did the same with a good lightsaber duel thrown in. TPM's was shoe-horned in - this is my least favorite of the bunch since kid Anakin stumbles his way inside and accidently pulls the trigger while aimed at the most important part of the ship. Why couldn't they just have the Naboo version of Poe Dameron do this? TFA really crams it in, which I didn't much care for, but at least they joke about it a bit.inflatable dalek wrote:It's a shame that, like Return and Phantom Menace (I can't remember if the other Prequels do the same) they felt compelled to return to the "Blow up the big thing in space" ending. It didn't need a doomsday weapon, do these people not remember that Empire--the most popular of the films--is just two hours of the heroes running away from the villains badly? They didn't feel compelled to reveal that Cloud City could suck off suns in order to add an Epic Threat there.
I took it as a little bit different dynamic, especially on the second viewing. At first, I had the same impression as you did, but there's a couple lines of dialog between Hux and Ren that suggests they are essentially equal ranking from different sides (Hux as the military commander, Ren as the force-user). Kylo has a few lines of dialog in the movie that suggest he ultimately outranks Hux since he's Snoke's apprentice.Warcry wrote:It really goes to show how low Ren's status is in the First Order, too. Can you imagine Vader standing there and taking it while Piet or Veers or Jerjerrod or one of the other legion of interchangeable nobodies under his command shit-talked him to the Emperor and contradicted his plans while he was in the room? They'd be on the receiving end of a Force-choke before they got the second sentence out.
My hope is that ultimately Ren will become that villain. He seems really green in this movie as a baddie. We still don't know how far along he was in his training before he turned. All the other dark side villains to this point have had a significant amount of training and are rather composed: Palpatine was evil since the beginning of time, Darth Maul was trained as a Sith from a young age, Dooku was a fully trained Jedi Knight and politician (for lack of a better term) with years of experience before joining the dark side, and Anakin was a war-hardened Knight and nearly Master by the time Palpatine turned him. All of those guys seem to have much more discipline than Kylo Ren, which at this point seems his biggest fault. Snoke says at the end of the film that he needs to complete Ren's training. Hopefully that, coupled with his failure with Rey throughout will temper him into a massive bad guy.Warcry wrote:But the main problem, as dalek says...
...was that nobody else on the bad side was any better. The general seemed to know what was up, but he was so unimportant that I don't think he even got named on-screen. And Phasma was no better, only getting about three lines in a vain attempt to manufacture her as the next Boba Fett-style do-nothing-who-becomes-a-merchandising-hit.
If there was someone, anyone on Team Evil who was even remotely competent or threatening, then Ren's pouting wouldn't be nearly so annoying. Really, he needed to be the second-in-command or designated attack dog of the movie's true villain (no, a hologram of Replacement Palpatine doesn't count) so that he had room to grow without completely scuppering any sense of menace that the bad guys had.
Agreed. The only point I see of the Starkiller Base sequence, is to entirely wipe out the major players in the New Republic. The First Order succeeded in that regard, but the emotional impact isn't seen in TFA. We don't even get to know what planets those were, and who really is there when they're destroyed. That whole sequence, while cool, was really anticlimactic to me, even though billions lost lives and the Republic is essentially DOA.Warcry wrote:I think they felt obliged since the film had lifted all of ANH's plot to that point, but you're right. It would have worked a lot better without. The stupidly-huge Death Star ripoff never actually felt like a threat because (in spite of blowing up several planets) it never actually hurt any of the characters we're supposed to root for. Nuking Alderaan in the original was a gut-punch because it tore Leia's heart out, but I honestly couldn't even tell you the name of the place that got turned into an asteroid belt here. Rey's rescue, keeping Luke's location from the baddies and Han trying to redeem his son were all way more interesting and compelling plotlines. Unfortunately, I guess they decided that none of those were sufficiently a "blockbuster" way to end the movie.
THIS.Clay wrote:Apropos.
The reasons was because:dura wrote:I don't like how they killed off Han Solo.
You don't know where this new villain comes from. Didn't "Return of the Jedi" definitively show that the Dark side and the Empire were defeated?
What's with them being rebels again?
SPOILER! (select to read)Kylo Ren is the son of Han Solo and General Leia who Luke tried to train as a Jedi and Snoke turned him to the Dark Side.