Star Wars Episode VIII : The Last Jedi

[Skyquake87]

I went to see this last week and thought it was pretty good. Good, solid character arcs and some neat set pieces. I've got to be honest, I can't wait for all the old cast to be moved on. A lot of the appearances by the old characters feel a bit "for the fans" and they don't serve much purpose - with Skywalker being the only classic character to get anything useful to do. And by the way, do Aliens not age? How old is Chewbacca and that funny X-Wing pilot looks like Frank Sidebottom I remember from the originals?

I was way more engaged with the new cast. Rey remains great and I got a lot more out of Kylo Ren this time around, which was good - there's a key moment in the film near the end that I would have liked to have seen followed through to see where it went, but as with all these things, the status quo wins out. Nice reveal about Rey's parents, which I liked Bit disappointed Finn doesn't get much to do, ditto Phasma turning up for about 3 lines was ...not worth the effort. Rose was a nice addition and er, rose above the plot convenience she started off as.

General Hux! Man I love this guy, he's so pompous, and I liked Adrian Edmonson being his deputy (that made me cheer more than seeing bloody Threepio again - can't someone deactivate him?). Snoake was the world's creepiest Granddad and looked like a seedy old perv crossed with Goldmember in that silly gold robe.

The space battles and that were cool and that - I like the slightly impractical Republic bombers with their silly design flaw (hope they get that looked into for future use).

And that is my immediate thoughts!

[Tetsuro]

All I took home from it was three plotholes, in order of magnitute;

3) After railing on the treatment of the children at the casino planet, how come the Asian girl whose name I've already forgotten saved the not-horses but not the kids?
2) Why did Holdo wait for over half of the shuttles to be blown up before ramming the Imperial fleet? She didn't even move the ship to shield them or anything!
1) How the hell did DJ know about the plan rebel escape plan? Literally nobody told him about it or were even capable of telling him.

I didn't expect Snoke to expire this soon. They didn't even tell us who the hell he was! Is he gonna come back in episode IX or something?

I think the Imperial officers acting so hammy feels like a step backwards, to the kind of "bwahaha" attitude they had in the Holiday Special. They at least had some class in the originals, but that was probably in part of them being played almost exclusively by veteran Brit actors.

Also I heard a rumor that they killed Luke in post and didn't tell Mark Hamill about it, based on him being really excited about the movie but then acting really rude towards the director and Rey's actor afterwards.

In case you didn't already figure it out, my reaction wasn't exactly positive.

[Warcry]

I thought it was an alright movie, better than any of the prequels, Episode VII and at least some of the OT as well. But I don't really think too highly of most of the other Star Wars movies, so this is at least partly damning with faint praise. Video games and other secondary media have always been way more enjoyable for me than the movies themselves.

I've got to be honest, I can't wait for all the old cast to be moved on. A lot of the appearances by the old characters feel a bit "for the fans" and they don't serve much purpose - with Skywalker being the only classic character to get anything useful to do.

I thought it ironic that the movie teased Leia dying and had at least four good openings to write her out, but didn't, only for the actress to up and die on them.

And by the way, do Aliens not age? How old is Chewbacca and that funny X-Wing pilot looks like Frank Sidebottom I remember from the originals?

Wookiees live 200+ years, I think? So aside from maybe a few more grey hairs Chewie would probably still be in the prime of his life.

No idea about Nein Numb the mouse man, but in Episode VII I scoffed because CGI Admiral Ackbar actually looked a lot younger than ROTJ puppet Ackbar did.

I was way more engaged with the new cast.

I'm honestly a bit split on the new cast. I like Rey, and Rose was pretty cool. But Poe and Finn are just so poorly written in comparison. Finn especially just gives me whiplash every time he's on screen, jumping from worthless dirty coward to suicidally brave every ten minutes, and basically comes across as a dumbass who's only useful when there's a girl around he wants to impress.

Kylo Ren is actually pretty hilarious. He can't stop brooding even when he's just made himself the unquestioned ruler of the whole galaxy! Even his military equipment is emo, like the AT-ATs that are identical to the OT versions but for the addition of ANGRY EYE!-shaped windows. He's trying to be the new Vader but all he's managed so far is to be the new Episode II Anakin. But at least this sort of portrayal is more entertaining when we're not supposed to root for the guy.

1) How the hell did DJ know about the plan rebel escape plan? Literally nobody told him about it or were even capable of telling him.

This bugged me too. I don't get how the baddies went from "The Rebels are about to sabotage our sensors so their cruiser can escape!" to "They're launching escape pods!" There's no logical connection there.

Also, it really bugged me that, as far as I could tell, no one even said DJ's name the whole time he was on screen.

I didn't expect Snoke to expire this soon. They didn't even tell us who the hell he was! Is he gonna come back in episode IX or something?

Snoke dying like a bitch was hilarious, honestly, but I do think that a whole bunch of the decisions in the movie were made entirely to subvert people's expectations. Snoke dying, Poe's rebellion turning out the way it did, Leia constantly surviving in spite of being the old mentor figure, Holdo not turning out to be a traitor, Finn and Rose picking up some random scumbag who doesn't go on to become a key member of the rebellion because he actually is a scumbag, etc... It's like they saw how much people complained about The Force Awakens being predictable and went "Well, we'll show them! Subvert every expectation!"

I think the Imperial officers acting so hammy feels like a step backwards, to the kind of "bwahaha" attitude they had in the Holiday Special. They at least had some class in the originals, but that was probably in part of them being played almost exclusively by veteran Brit actors.

I had a similar reaction. Between Kylo cutting himself as he listens to My Chemical Romance, Huxx being a slimy twerp and Snoke having gone to the Skeletor school of villainy, they were pretty caroonish. Even the secondary baddies had a certain "mwa-ha-ha!" air to them, where the random Imperial officers in the original trilogy mostly just came off as generic professional military officers.

I found it a bit difficult to take the whole circus serious as a threat.

[Tetsuro]

Snoke dying like a bitch was hilarious, honestly, but I do think that a whole bunch of the decisions in the movie were made entirely to subvert people's expectations. Snoke dying, Poe's rebellion turning out the way it did, Leia constantly surviving in spite of being the old mentor figure, Holdo not turning out to be a traitor, Finn and Rose picking up some random scumbag who doesn't go on to become a key member of the rebellion because he actually is a scumbag, etc... It's like they saw how much people complained about The Force Awakens being predictable and went "Well, we'll show them! Subvert every expectation!"

The worst part about all that is how much sense it makes.

Which kind of backfired IMO since it feels even less like a Star Wars movie as a result. I feel like they kind of missed the point of Star Wars being a homage to oldschool action adventure serials. The predictability wasn't the issue with TFA, it's that they pretty much just remade another Star Wars movie.

I had a similar reaction. Between Kylo cutting himself as he listens to My Chemical Romance, Huxx being a slimy twerp and Snoke having gone to the Skeletor school of villainy, they were pretty caroonish. Even the secondary baddies had a certain "mwa-ha-ha!" air to them, where the random Imperial officers in the original trilogy mostly just came off as generic professional military officers.

Probably the closest we saw to a non-hammy villain among them was the Dreadnought captain - and even then the movie made sure to remind us he's evil by bathing his ship's bridge entirely in red light.

[Auntie Slag]

I just saw this for the first time. I reckon the bit about Rey's parents is a fake-out and they really are key people, or atlas Rey's origin is key... like she's the first cloned Jedi.

I loved that it started with a big, fat space battle. That always gives me such a buzz, like when I saw Episode III at the cinema. It makes you think: "Yeah, this is what Cinema is all about".

Smoke must turn up at the first Sith force ghost baddie, and then get his backstory explained. The Porgs were pretty stupid and I'm glad they received minimal screen time. Chewie got almost nothing to do, much like any of his other appearances I feel.

I loved the goofiness of Poe, Luke and so on. Thank god Luke wasn't made out to be only a pious, grouchy arse.

It was no Rogue One, definitely no Empire Strikes Back but it'll probably get better with repeated viewings. I also loved the sand-skimming vehicles near the end, leaving a red trail in the ground. Such an awesome sight, a bit like the thrill in Episode VII when the X-Wings are flying above the lake surface like badasses.

[Auntie Slag]

One thing that does annoy me is who is bankrolling the First Order? When Starkiller base got blown up in Episode VII which was many, many times bigger than the Death Star; doesn't that potentially mean a huge number of families under First Order employ were killed. Or at least without their evil Husbands/Fathers?

Currency has always been a feature of Star Wars what with bounty hunters and people always paying for stuff. How did they not get bankrupted when Starkiller Base exploded?

And yeah, the same argument goes back to Episode IV. Lets say if the Emperor was the one with all the money, and he's been dead 30 years. Is Snoke now footing the bill? Does the Empire/First Order have a lot of patents?

How did Hux survive when he was on the exploding base in Episode VII?

[Skyquake87]

I reckon its all financed by leveraged buy outs and hedge funds, shell companies and other nonsense. When things blow up, the investors just walk away leaving insurers to pick up the mess. Actually, there's a thought - never mind who's investing - who's insuring all this crap?

...big silly sci fi really falls apart when you sweat the small stuff. I wonder if the next Star Wars film will be a thrilling board meeting, where the First Order realize they can't fund intergalactic domination because of all these expensive explosions and whatnot. Sports Direct end up buying a bunch of shares but end up ruing that decision when the quarterly figures start dropping through...

[Auntie Slag]

I don't think its that unrealistic to expect a hint of realism.

• Batman is the millionaire philanthropist.
• Tony Stark is the millionaire hotshot who pays for everything from his inventions and ballistics.
• The Jedi were seemingly loaded when Master Sipher Diaz paid for the massive clone army on Camino.

Who pays for the rebels to blow up stuff? They had the Organa's who I guess are one of the wealthiest families. Coruscant is often portrayed (I think) as the trade centre of the galaxy?

The Hutts won't lift a finger without being paid, so I don't mind if 10 seconds are spent explaining who finances the First Order.

Did Snoke want to rule the Universe or just be the baddest Sith? He wouldn't have needed the First Order if he just wanted to be Sith boss I guess.

[Warcry]

I don't know, asking "how does the First Order pay for their toys" is kinda like asking how the US pays for all the aircraft carriers. All the Star Destroyers and Death Stars and Starkillers are there to make sure conquered planets keep paying their taxes (so that they can build more Star Destroyers and Death Stars and Starkillers).

[Tetsuro]

One thing that does annoy me is who is bankrolling the First Order?

I think a better question is, how the hell was First Order even allowed to form? After so many years and so many deaths, how the hell did the new republic do such a piss-poor job at actually running things if they just let the Imperial remnants, presumably still heavily militarized, to reform into First Order? There is apparently an official explanation (in the new EU, of course) where Mon Mothma not only told them to disarm and simply expected them to stick to that promise without any sort of supervision, but even compromised by demilitarizing the new republic which is why they're nowhere to be seen in the sequel trilogy. Complete bollocks.

It'll be interesting to see how the movie will benefit from hindsight in the years to come. Will it's opponents come around and see it as a misunderstood masterpiece, or will it's defenders finally see how flawed it is? Because I certainly can't see the former happening. In the months since I've seen it, I've tried to wrap my head around all the problems I perceived on that first viewing and it feels like debugging code, you try to patch one and just find a dozen other ones instead.

[inflatable dalek]

Saw Last Jedi at last! A lot of good stuff, but boy did that Casino Planet stuff drag it down (as well at the fact they don't achieve anything, people being able to just come and go kind of kills the energy of the desperate chase across space). The amount of bile Rose got from incel twats when she was the best thing in that plot by far makes me sad.

[Tetsuro]

The amount of bile Rose got from incel twats when she was the best thing in that plot by far makes me sad.

Yeah, as opposed to the SJW twats right?

If I didn't know any better, I'd assume she was intended to be a biting satire on the typical liberal leftie; she's full of rhetoric but all her actions prove is her own short-sightedness.

But that'd be clever. And if there's one thing I've figured out at this point, it's that Rian Johnson is most certainly not clever.

[Denyer]

Out of any two sides I'd arm the ones that don't start conversations with death threats for acting in a film about spaceships and glowing swords.

Cheers for the reminder to get around to this, missed it in the cinema and most weekends this year have been house stuff.

[Tetsuro]

The funny thing about the harrassment thing is that nobody's actually been able to provide solid evidence of said harrassment in the form of something like archived web pages, just some screenshots of racially charged comments with no context whatsoever. KMT herself stayed quiet for a long time, and even when she finally did speak up, she didn't mention the fans or even instagram once and just said "harrassment" in a vague, general sense (although the NYT article still tries to make it sound like this is totally about that) and instead railed against the media and Hollywood. I also had no idea Southern California was such a racist hellhole.

Weird thing is that a few months before she left Instagram, she did state in an interview that she didn't particularly care about social media in general, so she could've easily quit because she couldn't be bothered to keep track of it.

The only "proof" the media loves flaunting around when asked about it is some obscure facebook group that took credit for it, but that group had like 40 followers at most, only about half a dozen of which weren't porn bots.

[Denyer]

Just do an open call of women you know active on social media who haven't received dick pics, stalking, invitations to kill themselves or threats of violence, sexual or otherwise, and multiply by a level of fame greater than working in local govt or being at a comic convention.

https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/publ ... -shocking/
edit: Another day, another load of examples --
https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/31/red ... speak-out/

Twitter in particular balances being a go-to for lazy journalists of all stripes with being a cesspit experience for ordinary folk as well as celebs.

[Tetsuro]

I've always hated sensationalist media for making the world look a lot worse a place than it actually is, but opening the prospects of hit-based ad revenue from lazy, dumb clickbaits to the general populace has not done positive worldview any favours.

And that really goes for both wings, left and right. In one hand, I'm concerned about the white power movement taking root in the American police force. Unlike their military which faced a similar problem, the police is too decentralized to deal with it effectively. In the other, I'm also worried about the online lynch mobs demanding the heads and livelihoods of anybody for any perceived slight. Remember the NASA guy in the pinup shirt?

[Denyer]

In the other, I'm also worried about the online lynch mobs demanding the heads and livelihoods of anybody for any perceived slight.

Wouldn't disagree. Public ampitheatres always come back to being a platform for live execution or bloodsports of one form or another. The UK was still executing people as part of the process of law in the 1960s, and the US is still doing it.

It'd be a good idea in any walk of life to get a responsible adult to dress and coach people who aren't used to presenting to members of the public, because the public stage of millions is now the status quo.

[Tetsuro]

It'd be a good idea in any walk of life to get a responsible adult to dress and coach people who aren't used to presenting to members of the public, because the public stage of millions is now the status quo.

If I remember correctly, the specific comment KMT made months ago about social media is that she doesn't like the idea of submitting every minutiae of life to public scrutiny.

Remember back in the 90's when were still kids and internet was still fresh? We were told to never tell anybody our real names or give away any sort of real life information that could be tracked down. Wasn't that great?

Then some geniuses thought that people wouldn't be so tough if they had to use their real names. And that internet would be a great platform for publicity, let's shove all the ****ing actors on it too.

[Denyer]

Remember back in the 90's when were still kids and internet was still fresh? We were told to never tell anybody our real names or give away any sort of real life information that could be tracked down.

Not really, that was the point where fandom-wise I was reading ATT and closer to home everyone and their dog had shitty GeoCities pages for themselves, their bands, musical subcultures, etc. Forums were also a big thing and "get to know you" threads attracted names, photos and detailed questionnaire answers.

There was less vitriol because the age profile skewed younger and establishment/troll groups hadn't woken up to publishing no longer having a cost attached and it being a way to organise, propagandise and segment audiences.

"Social media" brought in huge volumes of people outside of academic circles and that's basically where existing societal cancers started getting shovelled in wholesale.

[Tetsuro]

What I hate so much about TLJ is that in addition to essentially screwing over everything that's come before it - even TFA, which I thought was okay while still admitting it had it's problems - it has severely, and unnecessarily, divided the SW fanbase, which is especially infurating in this Trump/SJW era where everybody wants to make everything political. Including the debates about the merits of the film, which I personally think has very few. And judging by the RT score, so do a lot of other people.

Which of course still gets accused of being machined by angry misogynists or something. Despite there being plenty of women, people of colour and women of colour who didn't like it, for perfectly valid reasons. Personally I find the movie to have plenty to criticize without ever pulling politics into it. It's a stupid movie full of stupid characters making stupid decisions, and the worst part of it is that we're stuck with it. The plot threads and characters introduced in TFA could've gone somewhere interesting, but instead Rian Johnson wipes his ass with all of it and whoever unfortunate/dumb individual gets the job of directing episode 9 is gonna have to deal with the clogged toilet he left behind.