Doctor Who Series 11 Thread.

Chat about stuff other than Transformers.
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Tetsuro
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Post by Tetsuro » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:10 am

Cyberstrike nTo wrote: Christ I might has well stay on Twitter and Facebook.
You sound like you'd be right at home on tumblr.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:13 pm

Well, for those of us down with then SJW program originally produced by a Jewish woman and directed by a gay Asian man, the new series starts October 7th.
TRANSFORMATION: ALL GOOD THINGS
END OF AN ERA IN MY LOOK AT AOE 5!
PLUS: BUY THE BOOKS!

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Post by Cyberstrike nTo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:33 pm

Tetsuro wrote:You sound like you'd be right at home on tumblr.


It is morons like you that take all the fun out of everything because you can't stand the fact the world has changed and to survive franchises Dr. Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, Transformers, Marvel and DC comics have to change with the time instead of pandering to only cisgendered white males, of which I am one by the way. I can't wait to see a female Doctor, a lesbian Batwoman and Rey defeating the First Order.
Because all of that is far more interesting than watching another white man be a hero.

So you can stick your anti-SJW conspiracy theory crap side ways up your ass and go cry in your safe space you stupid snowflake. So go watch whatever Alt-Right youtube video and comment on some alt-right sub reddit about how mean I'm too you because as I said elsewhere here I stopped caring about the feelings and opinions and idiots like you a long time ago.
Please visit Outlaw Colony my new message board it's a fun site for fun people.

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Post by Tetsuro » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:10 pm

Cyberstrike nTo wrote:It is morons like you that take all the fun out of everything because you can't stand the fact the world has changed and to survive franchises Dr. Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, Transformers, Marvel and DC comics have to change with the time instead of pandering to only cisgendered white males
No they don't.

Because that's not where the ****ing money is. The tumblr crowd isn't interested in actually backing what they preach, lazy virtue signaling is the most effort they're willing to put behind their words because they just want to feel smug about something but aren't actually willing to invest in any of it financially. Do you really think any of them buy the comics they demand to be made? Why do you think all those "woke" comics keep getting canceled?

Because nobody wants to pay for that shit!

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Post by Denyer » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:19 pm

Kate Kane Batwoman? Neat. That one slipped past me. Would hope there's Gotham Central and Montoya Question influences there.
originally produced by a Jewish woman and directed by a gay Asian man
Mmm. Plus the TV industry has always been full of luvvies and old queens, it's not as if RTD was a turning point.

Once the show starts, BTW, we're going to be staying a bit more on-topic.

(Someone else feel free to bangs heads if it's getting too annoying before that. I'm off for a bit.)

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Post by Skyquake87 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:23 pm

...I read Batwoman. So, I'm paying for some of that shit. I like that they just have her as a gay character and its not a big deal. Her comics tend to be far more psychological and trippy than most normal super hero fare. Currently enjoying the Rebirth relaunch series. I'm puzzled that there was a bit a kerfuffle over plans to cast a gay actress in the role for something something. But then there was all the excitement of Jack Whitehall voicing a gay character for Disney. I don't understand why people get all SJW about this stuff. Fancy an actor playing a part that's different to them in real life (or not). Shocking...! Something must be done *posts on Twitter*

Anyway! October 7 for Who. That's late on. I'm just waiting to see what it'll be like. I'm very interested to see how all these new writers tackle Who. Hopefully, they'll bring lots of new stuff to the table. Mark Tonderai is one of the directors... I dimly recall he did something in music / DJing ... name rings a bell from listening to Radio 1 in the '90s. Er, if it's the same guy.

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Post by Tetsuro » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:57 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:...I read Batwoman. So, I'm paying for some of that shit. I like that they just have her as a gay character and its not a big deal.
That's exactly it - when you treat an anxiliary character trait as exactly that, few will people care. But when you have a character who only seems to function as the soapbox for the writer's political beliefs, well...nobody likes Steve Ditko's characters when written by Steve Ditko, either.

And we also get moronic publications praising Black Panther for being the first black cinematic superhero lead, the authors of these articles apparently having been in a coma since 1996.

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Post by Skyquake87 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:55 am

...now you've just made me think of Meteor Man and Steel. Thanks for that :lol:

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Post by Tetsuro » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:31 pm

Skyquake87 wrote:...now you've just made me think of Meteor Man and Steel. Thanks for that :lol:
I think most people would rather forget Steel, including Shaq himself. :p

But I was thinking more in lines of Spawn and Blade.

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Post by Tetsuro » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:27 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:I mean, the original Zygon story commented on the contemporary energy crisis and ended with the Loch Ness Monster trying to eat Maggie Thatcher. The 2015 variant wasn't really that much more agenda driven. And that's a story from one of the more detached eras of Who, when you get into the Pertwee or McCoy stuff, the TV is screaming its politics at you.
Big difference is in the presentation. Back then they knew how to do it with nuance and subtlety, through parody and/or satire. I still have no idea what the hell Happiness Patrol has to do with Thatcher, but I guess that one's politics are kind of dated now - as opposed to Vengeance on Varos, which in some ways feels more relevant today than it did some 30 years ago.

Now? The best they can do is just shameless fingerpointing without any sense of irony.

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Post by Ryan F » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:02 pm

Tetsuro wrote:Big difference is in the presentation. Back then they knew how to do it with nuance and subtlety, through parody and/or satire. I still have no idea what the hell Happiness Patrol has to do with Thatcher, but I guess that one's politics are kind of dated now - as opposed to Vengeance on Varos, which in some ways feels more relevant today than it did some 30 years ago.

Now? The best they can do is just shameless fingerpointing without any sense of irony.
“The Sun Makers” is a perfect example of ‘shameless finger pointing without any sense of irony’, and it’s over 40 years old.

I understood that Helen A was a riff on Thatcher on original broadcast, and I was nine. And, going deeper than the Maggie and Dennis parody, its underlying politics are arguably just as relevant today as those of Varos.

Just as, say, the politics of “The Zygon Inversion” are relevant today but would also have been keenly understood if the episode had been broadcast in the 1960s.
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Post by Tetsuro » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:12 am

Ryan F wrote:“The Sun Makers” is a perfect example of ‘shameless finger pointing without any sense of irony’, and it’s over 40 years old.
The Sun Makers didn't have a companion just walk up to the villain and tell him to sod off because he's a filthy capitalist or something.

Having characters go on random outbursts is not clever. Having a male timelord regenerate into a woman only to immediately make some disparaging comment about men makes no sense at all. "How do you deal with all that ego?" Why don't you answer that question yourself, you were literally him like five minutes ago you stupid idiot. It makes even less sense in the larger context of timelords being able to switch genders on regeneration, that if they're so fluid, would they even have gender-based predispositions?

Or how about making the first Doctor a misogynist for no good reason? Oh wow, look at 12th trying to shut him down, I'm rolling my eyes with laughter. That's combining the above with character assassination, because the 1st was not like that at all - if anything, he was a condescending jerk towards everybody.

I'm not talking about some larger story-driven satire anyway, because if I were, I'd be talking about the Monks and the fake news allegory which is far more in lines of the kind of thing that was done in The Sun Makers, Happiness Patrol and Varos and that was actually good. Well, maybe calling it good is a bit of a stretch because there were still a lot of elements in it that took me out of it but they were largely the fault of the writing and execution rather than the politics and satire of it. "Turn Left" is another new series example and that actually was good.

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Post by Ryan F » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:29 am

So I just imagined it when Miss Winters (Robot), Maaga (Galaxy 4) and Ruth Ingram (The Time Monster) made disparaging comments about men in the classic era?

And it’s interesting that, in 55 years of the show, you’ve chosen to focus on a single anti-men line, rather than the dozens of examples of sexism the other way in the classic show. Cherry picking that one example in a show that historically has had its fair share of sexism says far more about you than it does about the show.
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Post by Tetsuro » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 am

There's a big difference between simply accusing men of being chauvinistical, and actively putting them down on the account of being men.

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Post by Ryan F » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:41 am

Hmm. Considering that only 57% of Moffat’s episodes pass the Bechdel Test (compared to 89% under RTD), cracking a joke about men is probably the least he could do. Hopefully series 11 redresses the balance somewhat!
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Post by Tetsuro » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:18 am

Well they're definitely going to do something. I just hope it's better.

And just sticking on the writing side of things, I believe RTD himself said that he'd never let someone like Pip & Jane Baker write a script for the new series, but if they could let something as abysmal as Kill the Moon enter production, the only reason they couldn't do better now is that one of them is dead, and I'm not even sure about that.

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Post by Summerhayes » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:53 am

I can't believe how hard the loony liberal BBC is trying to cuck me.
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Post by Ryan F » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:11 am

Some people really loved Kill the Moon (see here: http://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/kil ... on-review/ ). Just because you personally hated it, it doesn’t follow that it’s objectively a bad piece of television.
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Post by Tetsuro » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:01 pm

I'm sure Love & Monsters has it's fans too. Or Fear Her. That still doesn't make them good.

And if the story was indeed intended to be an abortion allegory like the review you linked states, it also was handled very poorly - a sentiment a lot of the comments on the review agree with.

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Post by Ryan F » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:35 pm

I don’t really want to get into a debate about the relative merits of Kill the Moon, as it’s beside the point (I’m not a fan of it myself). I was merely attempting to illustrate that your own disillusionment with modern-day Who and its politics is no indicator of a actual, objective, measurable slump, as other people seem to be liking it fine.
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