Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

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Clay
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Clay » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:01 am

Tantrum wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:06 pm
But, I will vote Not Guilty if I'm ever serving jury duty on a case involving a defendant who attacked someone for not wearing a mask.
I'd call it self-defense at this point.
Covid's killed around 150,000 Americans in about half a year... Given current trends, and the large gap between accidents and cancer, covid will be the number 3 killer of Americans this year.
Give the rate of its expansion, I'm not sure if I'd count it out for the top two spots yet, either. I suppose it'll depend on whether we count by calendar year or by anniversary of the first case in Seattle.
Head slob replies, "Maybe if you weren't so clean, you wouldn't live to be so old". He actually defends living short, sickly lives as an equally valid lifestyle choice rather than admit the other tribe has a point.
Because FREEDOM, I'd imagine.
At least I don't work for Rep Gohmert. Politico reported that the Congressman had tested positive for covid, then received an e-mail from Gohmert's office thanking them for letting them know the Congressman had tested positive. That's how they found out they'd possibly been exposed.
I remember reading that he called all his staff in to tell them, in person, that he has a highly contagious and potentially deadly disease. I can't find the link now, but I did skim over this in the process of looking for it:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07 ... o-thin-air

"Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert."

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Tantrum
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Tantrum » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:00 pm

Here's the tweet about Gohmert's underling finding about Gohmert's diagnosis via politico. When I first read your statement about Gohmert informing his office, I thought it was refuting what I'd seen. Then, I noticed the bit about informing them in person and realized that's even worse.

The first case in Seattle was January 15, when the guy's flight arrived in Washington state. Calendar year and anniversary year are only 2 weeks different, so I wouldn't worry about it.

According to this, University of Washington is predicting 230k US deaths by November. I don't know if that's the beginning or end of November, or why they didn't go through the rest of the year. Maybe they're wondering about how many deaths by Election Day? If they're going by start of November, that'd be around 80k more in the next 3 months, meaning coronavirus would still be in 3rd place by over 350k with two months to go. That doesn't seem likely.

Dammit, coronavirus. When people say, "Beat cancer", they're not talking to you.

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Clay
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Clay » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:18 am

I forgot to add before that I haven't had any good cartoon metaphors for people in the pandemic, but I did watch the Avengers (2012) again a few weeks. The comparison I drew was that even though Loki is going around killing people, tearing up helicarriers and whatnot, the Avengers still don't get their act together until Colson dies. Essentially, the disaster unfolding around isn't enough really to get them reacting until someone they know personally actually dies.

I am not trying to make any favorable comparison between plague-chasers and superheroes mind you, but the whole "abstract problem isn't a problem until it affects me personally" thread was more pronounced to me when I watched it recently.

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Tantrum
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Tantrum » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:10 am

Sades wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:54 am
Alberta's plan on returning to school is laughable (No classroom size limits, no budget for PPE for teachers, they expect elementary school students to stay masked and stay 2m away from each other on a playground) and so I'll be homeschooling again next year (losing my job turned out to be a good thing I suppose, I would have had to quit anyway). Due to ADDedness, this will probably be terrible. Just terrible. :p It's just grade 2, though, thankfully. Hopefully I don't screw it up too badly.
When is your kid's school supposed to restart? Some schools here have already tried and are failing. Maybe by the time your kid's school is supposed to reopen, there will be enough failures and outbreaks to make Alberta reconsider. Also, would that be your ADDedness or the kid's?


This article starts with a photo of a bunch of kids crowded in a hallway not wearing masks. The superintendent is quoted as saying, "there is no practical way to enforce a mandate to wear [masks]". Bullshirt. Every non-college school I ever went to had a no hats inside policy. If you wore a hat, you either took it off or got in trouble. If you can make kids take off hats, you can make them put on masks. Make it part of the dress code.


Another thing I'm wondering, is if it would help to have the teachers move from classroom to classroom instead of the students. In my high school, each teacher basically had their own classroom, and the rooms were organized by subject. English classes in one wing, math classes off the main hallway, foreign languages downstairs, etc.

This maximized student traffic in the halls, since every student had to walk from one part of the building to another between every class. Maybe multiple parts depending on locker placement. Instead, just have the kids stay in the same classroom all day, while the different teachers move around.

This wouldn't work 100% due to student having differing curricula, so some students would have to move occasionally. But, it'd still reduce hallway traffic from thousands of students to dozens of teachers and students. Plus, the teachers would be more likely to follow the mask mandate in the halls.

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Denyer
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Denyer » Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:44 am

It's the approach any organisations with an iota of sense will be following.

Decent plain English article on immune response a friend just linked --

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ry/614956/

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Tantrum
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Tantrum » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:33 am

Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey are requiring people coming from Rhode Island to quarantine for 14 days upon entry, due to our increasing covid numbers. Mass's restriction goes into effect tomorrow, so this afternoon, I took my last shopping trip into Mass for what may be a while.

I hit 3 Targets, a Walmart, 3 comic shops, and a couple other stores. I got Wildwheel and Rick & Morty volume 10 (I only had 1 through 8, and will have to check local stores for volume 9). I was hoping to find SS Overload at the same comic shop I bought Scavenger at months ago, but no luck. I did see Scavenger at 2 of the Targets, so at least they're carrying Leaders.

I also saw near total compliance with the mask requirement. There was one lady outside a store with her mask down, who was definitely more than 6 feet from the door, but still close enough to make entering and exiting without violating social distancing awkward.

In theory, I could pass through Mass to New Hampshire, where my parents live, and back. But, work requires staying away for 14 days if I travel more than 60 miles, so that's out. I could go to mainland Rhode Island, but that's where the high covid numbers are coming from. So, I'm back to staying very local for the time being.

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Sades
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Sades » Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:53 am

Tantrum wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:10 am

When is your kid's school supposed to restart? Some schools here have already tried and are failing. Maybe by the time your kid's school is supposed to reopen, there will be enough failures and outbreaks to make Alberta reconsider. Also, would that be your ADDedness or the kid's?
Early september. I don't know, as far as I know it's going ahead as normal. Masks are supposed to be mandatory but I can't see a bunch of grade schoolers keeping them on and staying away from each other. Some classes have 30 students in them, and classrooms aren't very big. It's going to be a massive shitshow and I'm just glad we can opt out of it.

The ADDedness is on my part. We're pretty sure I have ADD or ADHD (ADHD sorry, apparently ADD is an outdated term). I'm still waiting for a good time to get an official diagnosis so I can find someone who can help me with some stuff, though it's likely what can be done for me is limited as I'm already an adult. But it can't hurt to check.

Staggering days different classes attended school would probably also help, to a degree. Or doing core subjects on half days and other classes as home assignments. IMO.

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Warcry
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Warcry » Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:45 am

So, after going two whole weeks without reporting any COVID cases, things have started to go to shit here. It's not bad yet, but case counts are starting to go up sharply and I can see it getting a lot worse because no one here takes it seriously. Most of the new cases are due to fresh COVID cases traveling in from out of province. Which is what happens when you remove the 14-day isolation requirement on people traveling into the province from places with far more cases than we have, I suppose.

The government has also decided not to tell us any useful info about where the cases are, how they were contracted, etc. The rumour is that most of the recent cases are on Hutterite colonies, spread after a bunch of people went to Alberta for a funeral and didn't isolate after returning. Is it true? Who the **** knows? The government won't tell us and just mumble about racism when the media presses them on it. Because how dare people want to know if the spread of COVID is contained to a few isolated rural communities or spread amongst the whole province, I guess?

Like, I understand that privacy issues are a big deal, but my neighbour three doors down was hospitalized with COVID and no one in the area knew until he recovered and told us. Aren't they supposed to be contact-tracing and getting in touch with people who've been exposed to known cases so that we know to get tested?
Sades wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:53 am
Staggering days different classes attended school would probably also help, to a degree. Or doing core subjects on half days and other classes as home assignments. IMO.
My son is supposed to be starting kindergarten in a month. I'm already worried like hell about whether he's going to make friends, whether he's going to listen to the teachers, whether the school staff are going to try to get us to cram pills down his throat because he's super-energetic, etc., etc. Normal parent stuff, I know. Having to worry about COVID on top of all that...it's just surreal. The world sucks and kids shouldn't have to grow up knowing what "pandemic" means. :(

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Tantrum
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Tantrum » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:53 am

That school district that said they couldn't enforce mask rules can enforce social media rules, and suspended the girl who posted the pic online. They reversed the suspension after national outcry, though the girl would probably be better off staying at home away from the school, which reported 9 covid cases. Source

The school's going virtual/distance learning for a couple days. Hopefully schools like the ones Sadie's daughter and Warcry's son go to that open in September are watching and learning from this school's mistakes. Opening a school just long enough to cause several covid cases, then closing again is worse than just staying closed.


In superspreader news, the Sturgis motorcycle rally is still on, though they're expecting 250,000 visitors instead of the usual 400-500,000. The town's 7,000 residents were polled and 60% would've preferred to cancel the rally. But, because the bikers stay in state run campgrounds and the governor is an asshole, there's not much they can do.

One of my parents' friends is going to be there. My parents are asking about visiting me in September, when I take a week off work. It's not that I wouldn't like to see them. But, I'd be a bit nervous being around anyone for any length of time. Especially since I'm not sure how well my parents are taking precautions. They say they are when we talk, but sent a photo of them at some Elk's Lodge function of the two of them with another member, unmasked, less than 6 feet apart.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by ganon578 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:30 pm

Tantrum wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:53 am
The school's going virtual/distance learning for a couple days. Hopefully schools like the ones Sadie's daughter and Warcry's son go to that open in September are watching and learning from this school's mistakes. Opening a school just long enough to cause several covid cases, then closing again is worse than just staying closed.
The school system my kids attend has gone to online only until at least October 16th, at which time they will reassess and determine what to do. I think it's the right call. They've also given everyone the option of trying to return to in-person schooling in mid-October, or just going full online for the whole year. My guess is that even if they reopen in October, it's only a matter of time before it's shuttered for the end of the semester.

It's a complex situation. You have elementary (or any) level kids that would benefit greatly from in-person learning, but would be safest at home doing virtual learning. Parents or relatives can't always be there to help the at-home/online thing because of work, and maybe can't afford to pay a daytime tutor. My wife and I are blessed that my job is steady enough to support all of us and she's a stay-at-home mom and part-time teacher. We're covered no matter what with online learning.

I never imagined we'd have to think about these types of choices for our kids and their education. My main worry was like others on here, with hoping they make friends and just being happy.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Clogs » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:00 am

We pretty much escaped the major wave of horror here in Leicester/shire, but ended up being placed in two extra weeks of lockdown when cases suddenly rose. It ended up highlighting the clothing industry sweatshops everyone knew did not exist (since about 1981, if I recall right from my Unemployment Benefit Service days) and then it was quickly claimed the exploited staff were not responsible for the new wave of lurgy going around. Funnily enough, everyone has declined to point to the elephant in the room, namely a lot of public transport using staff being recalled to work immediately following the end of the national lockdown.

According to our Mayor, the whole thing is A Tory Plot to Repress and Destroy Labour Councils, and he has just stopped short of doing a Trump (which has a whole new meaning in the UK, yes, Dalek?) by claiming it's all a hoax.

Our First bus company has put up new posters: Some heroes don't wear cloaks - some heroes wear masks. Cue pictures of mock heroes with approved NHS face coverings. I pointed out that, offhand, I could only suggest Fantomex as meeting the criteria and the driver looked at me odd until I explained it was something from the X-Men. But oh, he cheered me up by telling me that there will be £100 on-the-spot fines for all those oiks who have been getting on our bus, removing their masks once seated and either talking on phones, eating or just wearing it as a beard restrainer (even those without beards, who are doing it in a show of support). I am now looking forward to the antics once the plain-clothes coppers try to enforce the law.

Am I worried? Yes. The very notion that the UK could be offering free 'flu jabs to everyone aged 50+ in the hope that there won't be a rush of middle-aged+ with both illnesses simultaneously is worrying, indeed.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Denyer » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:25 pm

Apparently there's some scientific basis to the likelihood that one circulating virus will elbow another out in a population.

Surprised if any area's got the plods to do anything on public transport or at retail.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Clogs » Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:43 pm

Denyer wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:25 pm
Apparently there's some scientific basis to the likelihood that one circulating virus will elbow another out in a population.
Elbow, not push. Very appropriate for the times...

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Tantrum » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:32 pm

That Sturgis motorcycle rally runs until Aug 16. The Laconia, NH bike week was supposed to be in June, but was postponed to Aug 22 due to covid. So, the bikers have 6 days to get from one superspreader event to another.

Heart disease kills 650k Americans a year. Of those, 366k are coronary artery disease, so 1,000/day. Given our current covid death rate, it's fair to say that if covid isn't currently the number 1 killer of Americans, it will be by next week. Whether it takes the top spot for annual total remains to be seen. But, it'd only have to average 1,420/day or so until New Year's.

This county sheriff has banned masks for his deputies and people visiting his offices. Not made optional. Banned. As in, if you wear a mask, they will ask you to remove it or leave. His stated reasons are clear communication and identifying potential troublemakers. His actual reason is that the Republican Party is now a death cult.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Skyquake87 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:40 am

We've been kept in lockdown in Bradford for another week, but it's not made a blind bit of difference - people are just going out and about as normal. Hardly a surprise, given the government's excellent 'don't go in each others houses, but do do go to work, pubs, restaurants, the shops and other public places' advice.

It's been brilliant to see everyone taking up the government's 50% off food and drink 'eat out to help out' offer by packing out restaurants and cafes. Leeds Road, the main thoroughfare into Bradford is awash with restaurants and such and they've all been full to bursting. Massive queues outside some of them and no one wearing a mask and there's no evidence of social distancing (not a surprise, many of the buildings there are Victorian or older, so hardly conducive to such modern ideas). But that's alright, because it's getting the economy moving and they're not in each others houses or gardens.

Attempts to track and trace remain pitiful throughout the country, as the government, whilst insistent on local lockdowns if cases go up, doesn't appear willing or able to let local councils manage public health on a local level. It's this sort of poorly managed centralisation that's had folk clamouring for regional devolution over the last couple of decades. Local services for local people. What a terrible idea...

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Denyer
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Denyer » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm

It's been an absolute fucking shambles, hasn't it? There's no way to safely open schools or pubs/hospitality and the next thing will be families with older/vulnerable household members killed by kids bringing it home (and anyone who thinks kids not being in school traumatises them, being responsible for the death of a family member is the sort of thing that fucks people up for life).

The sheer hypocrisy of a half-price junk food offer (but only if you circulate and spread infection) combined with headlines about obesity and infection risk is staggering, on top of mis-sold PPE wasting millions and untested hospital patient releases slaughtering care home residents, etc. A good number of members of this government genuinely deserve to be jailed.

This guy is regularly summarising new developments with the hashtag #TheWeekInTory

https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/stat ... 6404563969

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Civ » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:30 pm

Denyer wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm
It's been an absolute fucking shambles, hasn't it?
The sad part is that may be a legitimate understatement.
Denyer wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm
There's no way to safely open schools or pubs/hospitality and the next thing will be families with older/vulnerable household members killed by kids bringing it home (and anyone who thinks kids not being in school traumatises them, being responsible for the death of a family member is the sort of thing that fucks people up for life).
This is the first time in my life where I'm actually glad I don't have children and I've been pretty much a loser when it comes to women. Both of my parents are elderly and my brother has a suppressed immune system. If I had kids, there's no way I'd be able to see any of my family for risk of spreading this virus because the people in my area are complete fuckwits when it comes to taking precautions.
Denyer wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:10 pm
The sheer hypocrisy of a half-price junk food offer (but only if you circulate and spread infection) combined with headlines about obesity and infection risk is staggering, on top of mis-sold PPE wasting millions and untested hospital patient releases slaughtering care home residents, etc. A good number of members of this government genuinely deserve to be jailed.
Wow. If I didn't know you were talking about the UK, that sounds very similar to what's happening in the US. Out of morbid curiosity, does the UK also suffer from COVID parties?

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Denyer
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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Denyer » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:50 pm

It's not really been a deliberate phenomenon -- there were some comments early on in sporting circles about it being the best way to move on with events/seasons, but not people actively gambling. Just not a lot of patience left with official restrictions, on the whole people are being careful about limiting their exposure but not paying attention re: indoor socialising because the hypocrisy of "mingle where you can spend money but not with family!" has, unsurprisingly, been viewed as idiocy.

Bringing in an emphasis on masks at this late stage has worked poorly, after months of headlines about them not working and Dominic Cummings ignoring restrictions.

Culturally there's a lot of respect for the national health service -- even if it's balanced by the fact that when it gets hot enough the beaches will be packed (and scenic areas dumped on) regardless. We're catching up with the suicidal ****-everyone-else individualism of the US, as evidenced and performed by the Conservative government, but it's nowhere near as pronounced.

Media coverage is mixing in more "normal" news by this point, and there's not enough press about severe long-term effects that a proportion of people who aren't dying are suffering. Some of that will be the national broadcaster following the government line.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Clogs » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:09 pm

What Denyer said...

I’m not blaming the government, if I’m honest, for more than mixed messages given out as the Titanic is sinking; reacting to an impossible situation and finding out a few more lifeboats would’ve been nice. I’m just so angry with the self-centred bunch of oiks who carry on as if the whole thing’s nothing to do with them until it compromises their view of reality.

Locally, one woman complained that her garden fence, which lies on the city boundary, was the edge of the city quarantine zone and she couldn’t use the gate? That made big headlines here! Ditto the poor lass who could only have 8 wedding guests where she had planned to have (wait for it) 200 at the actual ceremony and about 650 at the reception AND was demanding she be given permission to do so.

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Re: Covid 19 / everybody PANDEMIC

Post by Denyer » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:19 pm

Clogs wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:09 pm
I’m not blaming the government, if I’m honest, for more than mixed messages given out as the Titanic is sinking
I am. There are other countries that have handled things as well as could have been expected -- NZ is an island and acted fast enough to make a big impact in addition to emphasising social contracts and the best medical information, Germany also pushed a science-based response, and Scotland shows the central British response up for the incompetent, callous, blood-on-hands shit show it's been.

Good leadership. We don't have anything even remotely resembling it.

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