The Curse of the Movie Trilogy

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:45 am

Okay, this stems from a discussion at Transfans, and I thought I'd bring it here for you muppets to argue about.

"Is there a single incident of the third film in a series being better than the second?"

Examples of third films that are not better than the second films:

- Return of the Jedi
- Alien 3
- Terminator 3
- Scream 3
- Scary Movie 3
- The Godfather 3

Questions that spin-on from it:

- Is From Russia With Love better than Goldfinger? Or is Goldfinger technically the third Bond film because of Casino Royale?

- On the same front, do the four 90s Batman films count as the same series, despite coming from different directors/writers, even though they were produced by the same studio? And if so, should we include the 60s Batman in the saga?

- Is Matrix Revolutions any better than Reloaded, or should they both be regarded with equal contempt?

- Is Return of the King better than the previous movies?

And, to cut the argument off before it begins, Revenge of the Sith was the sixth film made in the series. I don't care that it was set before the others, it was made last.

DISCUSS.

Baxter · Post by **Baxter** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:03 pm

Originally posted by The HeartBrend Kid
Is From Russia With Love better than Goldfinger? Or is Goldfinger technically the third Bond film because of Casino Royale?

Wasn't From Russia With Love released prior to Goldfinger?

The only 3rd movie I can think of that's better than the second is Back To the Future

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:13 pm

Originally posted by Baxter
Wasn't From Russia With Love released prior to Goldfinger?

Yes.

I goofed.

On purpose.

To see who'd noticed.

Honest, guv.

dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron · Post by **dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:53 pm

Originally posted by Baxter
The only 3rd movie I can think of that's better than the second is Back To the Future

Definitely. Let's also not forget...

Leprechaun 3 - the one in Vegas.

Great lines there:

Leprechaun: "I want my gold shilling. Tell me where it is or there will be another killing."

Leprechaun: "For pulling this trick, I'll chop off your dick!"

Leprechaun: "There was an old man of Madras, whose balls were made of fine brass. So in stormy weather, they both clanged together, and sparks flew out of his arse.

Art: [to Leprechaun] "Tell me, what was Judy Garland really like?"

Leprechaun: "Ahhh... lovely golden palaces completely full of riches. I'll rip 'em off and rob 'em blind, those dirty sons of bitches."

Bombshell · Post by **Bombshell** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:36 pm

Originally posted by The HeartBrend Kid
- Is Return of the King better than the previous movies?

There are people who would hang you for asking that.

Oh, and the answer is yes.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:45 pm

3rd Harry potter was better than the second.

Cassino Royal doesn't count in the same series much like "Never say never again".
All Bond films but not in the same series.

Have we had a Hobbit animation? Because that would technically mean Return of the King is not the 3rd.

American Pie: The wedding was better that American Pie 2 in some peoples eyes.

On the Batman front the 1960's one wasn't the first. I believe there were Batman film's in the 40's to expand on that.

Personally I can't in any way connect Batman and Robin to "Batman Return's" (Dispite the pressenct of Pat Hingle and Michael Gough in all those films) so I take them as seperate film series with Batman Forever as a weird hybrid that just about fits in with either.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:09 pm

Some comments:

Alien 3 was actually equal, if not better, than the second. Alien 2 was more action oriented, while 3 had that claustrophobic feeling 1 had.

Batman 3 [however it was called]...bleach. Became too action oriented and no longer dark as the first two. They could make Twoface and Riddle[r?] much, much better and more psychotic, but they just needed guys who will bring 'boom boom' scenes. 4 was not good at all.

I found Starwars episode III and VI better than II and V. II was a bit boring at some scenes. Ep 5 was ok, but not as good as 6.

All scary movies are crap. Period.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:31 pm

Originally posted by Knightdramon
Some comments:

Alien 3 was actually equal, if not better, than the second. Alien 2 was more action oriented, while 3 had that claustrophobic feeling 1 had.

You have lost the right to be taken seriously.

Alien 3 may have "claustrophobic feeling" but it also had lots of crap.

Ep 5 was ok, but not as good as 6.

See my first comment right above.....

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:58 pm

Originally posted by Knightdramon
Alien 3 was actually equal, if not better, than the second. Alien 2 was more action oriented, while 3 had that claustrophobic feeling 1 had.

The entire execution of Alien 3 was flawed. Aliens is a classic. They're incomparable. You want claustrophobic suspence? Watch the first in the series.

Batman Forever/Batman & Robin were done by Joel Schumacher, Batman and Batman Returns were Tim Burton (from memory); ergo can be classed as different series as there was no direct continuity between the two pairs.

I found Starwars episode III and VI better than II and V. II was a bit boring at some scenes. Ep 5 was ok, but not as good as 6.

Episode V is the only one of those six films worth my time. Return of the Jedi? I've got two words for you: Ewoks, bitch.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:16 pm

Like I said on TransFans, Blade: Trinity is the first example which comes to me mind. While both this and Blade 2 are not particularly good, the third one doesn't have stupid ugly vampire eating monsters and has Ryan Reynolds. And Jessica Biel.

I like each Lethal Weapon more than its predecessor, with fourth one possibly being exception.

I find American Pie 2 better than the third one, mostly because they made Stifler the main character and he doesn't work that way.

Thanks to Sean Connery, The Last Crusade wins with Temple of Doom.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:30 pm

Return of the King seems exempt from this discussion if we're talking about trilogies, because The Lord of the Rings isn't a trilogy.

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:45 pm

Originally posted by Ozz

Thanks to Sean Connery, The Last Crusade wins with Temple of Doom.

Temple of Doom is technically a prequel, though.

There are lots of people who prefer Army of Darkness to Evil Dead 2.

Lots of Godzilla fans say that King Kong vs Godzilla is their favorite Godzilla movie (even over the original Godzilla King of the Monsters).

Friday the 13th part 3 was the first appearance in Jason in his traditional hockey mask.

Beyond Re-Animator, save for another stellar performance from Jeffry Combs, completely sucked.

Leatherface: Texas Chainsaw Massacre 3 is the only watchable sequel in the franchise (though, technically, it is the fourth installment with TCM: the Next Generation taking place between 2 and 3).

Critters 3 had Leonardo DiCaprio and should be vanquished from memory.

Ghostbusters 3, Creepshow 3 and Gremlins 3 don't exist, proving there is no God.

Puppet Master 3 was actually a prequel to the series, despite carrying the number 3 in the title.

Puppet Master vs Demonic Toys can be looked at as the third Demonic Toys film and it completely blew. Corey Feldman didn't help.

Many fans prefer A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: the Dream Warriors as it was the first appearance of comical Freddy (and he didn't suck) and had some of the best imagery.

Robocop 3. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Troll 3 was actually a completely unrelated film called "The Crawlers" but got the Troll label slapped on at the last minute to hopefully attract a wider audience (much like what happened to Troll 2, which explaisn why niether film has a single troll in it).

Ghoulies 3: Ghoulies Go To College is looked at as the zenith of the Ghoulies franchise, since Ghoulies 4 was a seque in name-only as it didn't contain a single Ghoulies from the previous film.

Halloween 3 doesn't get the respect it deserves, as it's actually a good flick and it was Carpentor's original direction for the franchise (to be a different Halloween-related story with every sequel). Still better than all the Michael Myers sequels that followed.

Hellraiser 3: Hell on Earth. The lowest point in the Hellraiser franchise...except maybe that time Pinhead went into outer space.

Day of the Dead. Yeah, it's the worst in the series.

Child's Play 3. Still better than Seed of Chucky.

Amityville 3D. Last Amityville film to be shot on location at the actual haunted house. The next 2 sequels took place in a new house that wasn't even in Amityville, and the sequel after that was about a dollhouse that looked like the Amityville house.

Jaws 3D.

Psycho 3. Part 2 was a genuinely good sequel, part 3 felt like more of the same. Still better than part 4, which didn't even try to stick with continuity.

Sometimes They Come Back...For More. Raise your hand if you wanted a third film in this franchise. Yeah, that's what I thought.

Oh, I'll think of more.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:26 pm

Originally posted by Sir Auros
Return of the King seems exempt from this discussion if we're talking about trilogies, because The Lord of the Rings isn't a trilogy.

My fault - title is a bit of a misnomer. I was thinking of "third movie made in series" rather than out-and-out cast-iron trilogies.

So prequels would count in the production order, rather than continuity. Nobody's going to regard the Exorcist prequel as "the first Exorcist film".

Is Chasing Amy better than Mallrats? On the direction and acting, I'd say yes... but the script?

MaximusPrime · Post by **MaximusPrime** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:24 pm

Scorpion King. Yeah I know it's a prequel, but it was the third movie made in the series and I didn't like it.

To be fair about Star Wars, I consider all episodes to be part of 2 trilogies. The Original Trilogy, and the New Trilogy. Original Trilogy, yes. Empire was better than Jedi. Why, cause technically Lucas could probably afford to have it not as good now because it was supposed to be the last chapter. New Trilogy, Sith was way better than Clones. Sure, Hayden's acting didn't improve one bit ("What have I done?" the worst cliched line in movie history, along with "It's quiet. Too quiet."), but we don't even care about the story at this point. We just want the climactic duel between Obi Wan and Anakin.

Zisteau · Post by **Zisteau** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:36 pm

Originally posted by Baxter

The only 3rd movie I can think of that's better than the second is Back To the Future

Ick. The third one was barely worthy of being a TV-movie-of-the-week. The second one is vastly better.

Originally posted by The HeartBrend Kid

Examples of third films that are not better than the second films:

- Return of the Jedi

[snip]

- Is Matrix Revolutions any better than Reloaded, or should they both be regarded with equal contempt?

I think RotJ gets a worse rap than it deserves. It is vastly better than A New Hope in almost every way possible. Sure, it's not as good as Empire Strikes Back, and it does have the Ewoks, but it's still a good flick. It also has the best space battle ever put to celluloid. (But I really do hate the new ending of the reedited versions)

Second, I quite liked the Matrix sequals. Any sort of problems they had were already in place in the first one.

the_escaflowne_2k · Post by **the_escaflowne_2k** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:21 am

First one off top of my head (mainly as its on my desk right now) is the Patlabor films 1>3>2.

Does Alien Vs Predatr count ?
If so Predator>>>>>>>>>>>>>A Vs P > Predator 2

Though in favor of the rule is Tarintino's first 3 ( Dogs, Fiction and Brown) With Dogs>Fiction>>>>>>Brown.

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:36 am

Back to the Future II was way better than III, it may even have been better than the first.

I thought that Die Hard 3 was a lot better than Die Hard 2. Can't go wrong with Samuel L. Jackson.

Zisteau · Post by **Zisteau** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:55 am

Also breaking the rule is The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, while not neccesarily better than Time Bandits or Brazil, it is equally as good.

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:26 am

My opinions on some of the titles mentioned:

First of all, whoever said ROTJ is better than ESB is wrong. ESB is the single best sequel ever, and yes, I'm including Godfather Part II in that statement. ROTJ is gold for everything involving Vader, Luke and the Emperor. The space battle is great also. Everything that happens in that damn forest makes me cringe, though.

Since I'm talking SW... Despite my well-documented complaints, ROTS is definitely better than AOTC. And I rather liked a lot of AOTC.

Aliens is astronomically better than Alien3. Name me five characters in Aliens, excluding Ripley. Name me five characters in A3, excluding Ripley. Case closed.

Die Hard With a Vengeance is better than Die Hard 2. DH2 played like a remake of the first movie, whereas they did something a lot more fun in DHWaV. Bonus points for pre-"I'll star in anything" Samuel L. Jackson.

Back To The Future Part II is better than BTTF3. I hated BTTF2 the first time I saw it, but as time has gone on, I've realized that it's the most rewarding one of the series, as far as rewatchability goes. BTTF3 is a lot like DH2, it's a remake of the first movie in a different setting.

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is better than Temple of Doom, but only barely. LC suffers from the dreaded remake-itis, but at least it's got Connery around to make things fun. ToD is undeniably fun, but it doesn't seem to have the epic scale that the other two films had. It also didn't have anything mysterious and supernatural that gave you chills just listening to characters talk about it like the Ark and the Grail did.

I didn't like American Pie 2 all that much but really loved American Wedding.

I like Fellowship of the Ring best out of all the LOTR films. Hang me now, I guess.

The scorecard?
ESB > ROTJ
ROTS > AOTC
Aliens > A3
DHWAV > DH2
BTTF2 > BTTF 3
IJLC > IJToD
AW < AP2

So I've got 4 third films that I feel are better than the second. More than I expected, honestly.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:34 am

Originally posted by BigMaki
Back To The Future Part II is better than BTTF3. I hated BTTF2 the first time I saw it, but as time has gone on, I've realized that it's the most rewarding one of the series, as far as rewatchability goes. BTTF3 is a lot like DH2, it's a remake of the first movie in a different setting.

Whoah whoah whoah! Maki, you've just lost an incredible amount of credibility. Been into the firewater again or is it just the Taco Bell talking? Back to the Future III is such a more watchable movie than BTTFII. Part II is just a movie that you watch to get through the trilogy because you're obligated to, but III is class.

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