Chat Thread

[Sades]

Earbuds and dishes have gotten me through a good number of chapters.

Yup, that's pretty much how it happened. Minus the earbuds. Blocks, dishes, and audiobook.

That's how I managed to get through one and a half books, for the most part... puttering around in the kitchen and my work commute are prime listening times. But I miss sitting and actually reading a book. When I'm putting stuff off to do something else, it's like I can feel those things that I'm supposed to be doing breathing down my neck. Not exactly relaxing. But that buffer period (however long) that I take in between tasks is nice, in its own way. I wish it were more efficient, though. Well, I suppose I wish I were more efficient. I think I have a decent balance going, but eh. Human nature, etc etc.

Random links, because of boring:

And now forsomething completely different.

Also, fascinating food blog.

I've posted this before. I'll probably post it again. Because it is just so... horribly, completely cringeworthy and I love it so much because of that. If shitty fanfiction entertains you, there ya go.

Bits of it are probably NSFW.

Ermahgerd, it's on Goodreads. Bahahaha!

[inflatable dalek]

A rough day's sleep after being woken up by Jehovah's Witnesses (at the door, not in my bed). First time in the four years I've lived in this tower block we've had any. They're escalating!

Sadly I was too groggy to do the Jasper Carrot thing of inviting them in for a cup of tea and using their surprise to convert them to my religion.

[Denyer]

Have probably just negated a twenty-year-plus friendship based on a FB discussion thread over this article, and not thinking that pride in carrying weight that amounts to health problems is rational or a good idea.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... dy-project

Decent photographer, Nimoy.

[Dead Man Wade]

Have probably just negated a twenty-year-plus friendship based on a FB discussion thread over this article, and not thinking that pride in carrying weight that amounts to health problems is rational or a good idea.

Depends. I am 6'2" and "morbidly" obese, yet have none of the issues that tend to be associated with weight. My heart is healthy and unblocked, I don't have diabetes, and what have you. I do have a bad back, but that's the result of an injury when I was in high school, and hurts to the same extent it did when I was much skinnier.

Given that, while I do understand that I should probably lose weight, the constant crap about weight does wear thin. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily "proud", as such, but I'm realistic about the situation. And certainly, I'd tell someone who gave me static about it to mind their own goddamn business.

On topic, I've quit my job to spend time with my daughter, as my wife has gotten a promotion and we can afford to live on one income (especially given the savings in child care). Really excited to have some time with her, as she's entering the period where she's learning to talk and a host of other things. So, that's cool.

[Denyer]

BMI is a load of crap, and anything that's not piling pressure onto organs and joints isn't a health issue. I seem to have stabbed at a raw nerve with someone and it'll either simmer down or a mostly long-distance friendship that's that fragile isn't salvageable. I follow the academic/Tumblr framing around the swearing, but don't agree with or respect some of it.

Cool beans on becoming a stay-at-home dad.

[Dead Man Wade]

I follow the academic/Tumblr framing around the swearing, but don't agree with or respect some of it.

Certainly. And I'm not saying that people who are proud to be fat are right to feel that way; simply commenting on my own occasional frustrations.

Cool beans on becoming a stay-at-home dad.

Thanks. I'm really excited, because she's constantly doing new things, and I'm going to be able to witness them rather than hearing about them from the babysitter.

Plus, it'll give me time to sort of get my own stuff in order.

[Clay]

Have probably just negated a twenty-year-plus friendship based on a FB discussion thread over this article, and not thinking that pride in carrying weight that amounts to health problems is rational or a good idea.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... dy-project

Decent photographer, Nimoy.

Hmmm.

It's more complex than that. While the self as a mental being exists somewhat separately from the physical body (you can lose your legs and still be you, obviously), it's still fused to it. If you tell people that their body is overweight and that that's bad in a mechanical aspect, you still impact the feelings of person if you're not careful. It's likely that the overweight person hears this enough that it contributes to low self-esteem, which of course leads to the cycle repeating. Even given that, I don't think Nimoy's point was to celebrate obesity. I think he was simply trying to show some truth about the human condition in that some people navigate the world in bodies that look like that. While I think that the obese=beautiful idea is an over-correction to fat shaming, people do need good self esteem to make healthy changes.

tl;dr = "Quit being fat, fatty" doesn't work.

[Knightdramon]

Obesity can be a tough and sensitive issue regardless.

Not sure what the fuss with Leonard Nimoy's pictures is and I don't care.

Severe obesity can hamper your body/system even if your arteries are not necessarily blocked/heart issues are not immediately prevalent/present.

The BMI thing can be misleading to an extent, as it only takes into account height and weight---if I'm built like a wardrobe but am 1.65 metres tall, does that make me fat because the calculated number came to that? No.

Extra weight very basically puts strain [necessary or unnecessary] on your muscles and bones, plus it can make your heart work faster to pump blood around your body.

There's a thin line between "obese", "healthy" and "super built". For instance, the knees of an obese person might be more susceptible to damage and wear because they have to carry more weight, but the knees of a super built person are strained from the wear and tear of all the exercises/running. Just because they will be able to take more crap as it comes does not mean they have not been damaged already.

Keeping thin/fit is also a personal issue/responsibility but includes factors not always to the person's abilities. If you are in a sedentary job you can't really get up in the office and run around for exercise, nor can you drop everything to cook a perfectly healthy mean to eat in the office and have fruits for dinner. Usually it's the other way around

[Denyer]

I don't think Nimoy's point was to celebrate obesity.

Likewise; it was the article I was responding to. Pathologising normal variance is dangerous, but equally a (the) important message of support is "be healthy" rather than "aspire to look like a magazine cover" or "fat is powerful".

Some people have existing severe health issues and very limited scope to self-help. There are an array of economic, stress and other factors working against most people, including to an extent that's becoming more recognised global food and marketing industries. And negativity and persecution complexes are cyclical.

Erasing judgement, particularly from the dialogue of how societies deliver healthcare, is moving in the wrong direction IMO. The models don't really work even without self-destruction as a larger factor.

Also, old link with credit to Tom;
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 3060570924

Always something to recognise and inform, natch. Just not a magic invalidation card.

[Cliffjumper]

Naturally there are shades of grey across the board but society as a whole is in danger of being very enabling... Obesity is a 21st century plague and, like smartphones and energy drinks, we've yet to see the damage the current trends are going to have. I blame Meghan Trainor, personally. You think that fat bloke's going to see fifty, at least without expensive and resource-consuming medical care? The idea of someone not having to be stick-thin has somehow become turning into "yeh, three pizzas a day just means you're being you".

Society as a whole terrifies the **** out of me. People in general are so stupid, lazy, entitled and stubborn now, everything's someone else's fault. I get genuine pangs of guilt that I've brought someone new into the world when I'm pretty sure it's going to be ****ed in 20 or 30 years.

[Sades]

I don't think Nimoy's point was to celebrate obesity. I think he was simply trying to show some truth about the human condition in that some people navigate the world in bodies that look like that. While I think that the obese=beautiful idea is an over-correction to fat shaming, people do need good self esteem to make healthy changes.

This stuff right here. ^

Fat people exist. They're fat, but they're still people. They deserve to be treated like people. To quote Wil Wheaton, "Don't be a dick".

That's about as far as the whole "external acceptance on a social level" thing should go, IMO. Viewing it as unhealthy should not be frowned upon, because to think otherwise is to delude yourself. Because it's not healthy. It just isn't.

Oh, and that bit about deleting content/suspending accounts... I think it's possible that happened because of boobies/naked, not because of fat people.

Society as a whole terrifies the **** out of me. People in general are so stupid, lazy, entitled and stubborn now, everything's someone else's fault. I get genuine pangs of guilt that I've brought someone new into the world when I'm pretty sure it's going to be ****ed in 20 or 30 years.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

If they're gay, let's set our kids up with one another.

matchmaker, matchmaker, make meeee a match....

[inflatable dalek]

The world has always seemed on the point of being ****ed. It probably means we passed the point of no return decades ago. Yay!

Between this and the documentary on his post Trek life on one of the TOS DVD' I think Nimoy was mainly interested in taking photos of naked women.

For art.

That's why he was my hero.

Plus, working on all those films with Jimmy Doohan likely meant his definition of fat was elastic.

[Denyer]

The idea of someone not having to be stick-thin has somehow become turning into "yeh, three pizzas a day just means you're being you".

Generationally, a lot of what's on store shelves has hit rock bottom in terms of nutritional value. Sugar's cheap to bulk things out with and a roughly 50/50 ratio of fat to sugar (eg, ice-cream) suppresses a satiety response -- it doesn't really exist naturally.

I get genuine pangs of guilt that I've brought someone new into the world when I'm pretty sure it's going to be ****ed in 20 or 30 years.

Has crossed my mind a lot as well. Every generation thinks it's living in the End Times to a certain extent, though. We might get a couple of bearable generations out of the world before it runs out of resources or there's another global war.

Oh, and that bit about deleting content/suspending accounts... I think it's possible that happened because of boobies/naked, not because of fat people.

Have I missed something?

[inflatable dalek]

It's worth remembering the world we were born into was one convinced an extinction level event nuclear war was definitely going to happen and could happen any day. Compared to that "People are a bit fat and full of themselves" is a fairly mild worldwide problem (though good on Puttin for his current USSR tribute act that looks to be bringing back some of the old danger).

[Denyer]

That one never went away, there's still plenty of nuclear capability.

Not quite as fraught as http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24280831 though.

[inflatable dalek]

Sure, but that's a hell of a downgrade from "It's definitely going to happen". And indeed, would have if not for the people like the chap in the link whose job it was to press the buttons actually using their common sense when something went wrong and we had instances of things like flights of gulls being mistaken for an incoming attack. It's terrifying to think how often mistakes like that probably happened...

[Clay]

And also, having just read Petrarch's familiar letters for a class on the development of the autobiography as a genre, society and culture have in fact been facing a dearth of talent and enlightenment compared to one generation prior to now since roughly 1360.

[Cliffjumper]

It's worth remembering the world we were born into was one convinced an extinction level event nuclear war was definitely going to happen and could happen any day.

Incorrectly. The Soviet Union's greatest propaganda was convincing the world it actually had the resources to mount a third world war.

Compared to that "People are a bit fat and full of themselves" is a fairly mild worldwide problem

Dunno. Everyone quite swiftly agreed that mutually assured destruction was a problem and a lot of resources were put into scaling down the problem to a sensible amount of tension. The world's current problem is that it doesn't acknowledge problems and in fact tends to excuse them.

[inflatable dalek]

Incorrectly. The Soviet Union's greatest propaganda was convincing the world it actually had the resources to mount a third world war.

Sure (and I love that story of how when America got hold of a Russian fighter plane they found it was full of decades old transistors), but no one knew that at the time. Indeed, America being convinced of it could have still led to something very, very nasty as they more than had the capability.

Dunno. Everyone quite swiftly agreed that mutually assured destruction was a problem and a lot of resources were put into scaling down the problem to a sensible amount of tension. The world's current problem is that it doesn't acknowledge problems and in fact tends to excuse them.

I refuse to acknowledge that.

[Warcry]

Society as a whole terrifies the **** out of me. People in general are so stupid, lazy, entitled and stubborn now, everything's someone else's fault. I get genuine pangs of guilt that I've brought someone new into the world when I'm pretty sure it's going to be ****ed in 20 or 30 years.

I feel the same way a lot, but I think the truth is that most people have always been that useless. But the internet allows everyone to broadcast their banal thoughts and opinions to the world at large, now, and it makes it much harder to just ignore it. And since people tend to herd together online with like-thinking folks, it's led to the creation of massive echo-chambers where even the stupidest ideas will meet with massive positive reinforcement if you choose the right audience).

The scary thing is that important decision-makers are actually listening to what people say in those online echo-chambers, instead of ignoring the masses and doing whatever the hell they want like they used to. Politicians taking their marching orders from trendy hashtags is just about the worst thing I can imagine.

Generationally, a lot of what's on store shelves has hit rock bottom in terms of nutritional value. Sugar's cheap to bulk things out with and a roughly 50/50 ratio of fat to sugar (eg, ice-cream) suppresses a satiety response -- it doesn't really exist naturally.

This certainly doesn't help. Neither does the fact that most of us now live a sedentary lifestyle, driving to and from work where we sit at a desk for eight hours a day. Our bodies aren't really designed for either. However, if we don't want to die from complications of obesity before we turn 50, we need to choose our diet carefully and find the time for at least some exercise. And if we choose not to, that's not society's fault, it's ours. Just because we're given the opportunity to eat processed garbage 24/7 and sit on our butts doesn't mean we have to, and normalizing it is dangerous.

Or maybe I'm just oversensitive because I struggle with my weight all the time, can never seem to find the time for as much physical activity as I'd like and get really annoyed when people fatter than me tell me not to bother and that I should "love myself the way I am".

Have I missed something?

People who reposted Nimoy's photos on Facebook after he died wound up getting their accounts closed because...well, because they're posting nude photos on a site that doesn't allow them. What did they think would happen?