New Avengers/Transformers crossover | UPDATE: confirmed, due in July (!)

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:39 pm

He did, but before Avengers: Dismantled by Geoff Johns.

dotCommunism · Post by **dotCommunism** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:45 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Yay. If this thing sells more than seven copies, expect a line of ever more insipid TF/Marvel crossovers.

Transformers/Death's Head?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:38 pm

No Wizard cover in it, though, is there, what with Deathy having just proved his readership is exactly the same as it was in 1988 all over again?

Originally posted by Denyer
Thought you liked the Avengers. Or was that Josh?

I liked the Avengers when it was a good book - when it had characters and stuff in it. Used to be the last outpost holding out against Joe Q, and then Busiek left, and hey presto, in comes a DC writer with a rep who tears the whole thing down in about six months by reverting most of the characters to inept teenagers for no readily apparent reason (certainly not to provide excellent stories and characterisation... trust me, I'm not against someone turning a title upside down [cf. Miracleman, Stormwatch, Captain Britain, even the first half of Morrison's X-Men], as long as it's good), and generally did such a bad job Marvel replaced him with Chuck Austen, who decided there was no more damage he could do, and thus devoted his first arc to bum-raping Captain Britain. As an aside, I'm really not that keen on most Avengers over the first three of four years, and then from the mid-1980s through to, well, Busiek starting. It's just when Avengers was good, it was really good... I liked Busiek's stuff mainly because it was how the Silver Age should have been. Wow, look at me ramble

As far as I'm concerned, the Avengers died with #56, and this new Secret Defenders bum-blancmange isn't something I care about any more than, say, Claremont writing for both CB and Pete Wisdom, whatever Wildstorm have knocked off for the Authority this week, the DH 2/3 atrocities, the whole House of M/Civil War **** storm or anything else... I've finally mastered the art of taking what I like about something and mentally junking the rest.

Hell, you like The Authority, but you wouldn't necessarily be up for a crossover between the current incarnations of that and Transformers, would you? It wouldn't be a sure-fire big hitter?

And Avengers also has a pretty ****ty record with crossovers, IMO (Avengers/JLA was a handjob for students of comics, those obsessed with Marvel v DC, fans of either franchise and not much else... Seriously, most feedback I've read on the book is along the "OMFG, Flash pwned Quicksilver" "That sucked, Pietro would be quicker" "No he wouldn't Flash rocks" variety), as does Transformers. It's the old crap that always comes up in "Superheroes vs Transformers" topics... most are just stomp-fodder, apart from a handful who could just take the entire Decepticon faction out with either a metaphorical or literal click of the fingers, so it'd all be a big PR exercise as we had some story that went to extraordinary lengths not to **** on either license's characters.

God, I can be proper boring if I try, can't I?

Clogs · Post by **Clogs** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:16 pm

Basically, we must all be prepared for (insert name/group) vs TFs in the coming months as everyone climbs on the danged band-wagon and wants their slice. At least, it looks like the same everyone is expecting the movie to be a hit!

However, when we get to My Little Pony vs TFs, let me know, and I'll got to bed and pull the covers up over my head until it all goes away.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:56 pm

yeah what cliffy said....we all i know im a fan of proper avengers but i didnt want to type all that. our opinions are fairly interchangable about the avengers though (except that i liked geoff johns "red storm" or whatever it was called storyline) .

while i enjoy bendis-vengers to an extent (although it got boring quickly). it isnt characterization that drives these mega stories...its characters and i just dont see what will be very exciting if we are useing the marvel knights style line up.

while big names are there (spider-man for instance) I guarantee spider-man would make an apperance regadless of the roster (he always does). I just dont see whats so exciting about luke cage, ronin, spiderwoman, wolverine and most definetely daredevil interacting with the transfomers. it would be a more dynamic story with thor, she-hulk, ms. marvel (either one), ironman, cap, scarlet witch, basically powerful people able to hold their own against transformers.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:03 am

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
you like The Authority, but you wouldn't necessarily be up for a crossover between the current incarnations of that and Transformers, would you?

Brubaker or Morrison, as long as Morrison wasn't doing the same apparently ludicrously decompressed angle he seems to be now (he did JLA well enough, so can do a regular cape book, and crossovers tend to have to move...)

DC/Wildstorm tend to have vastly greater power levels in play, though.

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:06 am

yeah if i couldnt have busiek id have morrison do this. he grasps the big cosmic team concept.

I worship the ground brubaker walks on after what he has done in captain america (best book on the market) but i dont know if he would mesh with the kind of style needed for this. while he has done teams he has said in the past that he wouldnt be confortable writing something like marvel team up for instance.

actually that reminds me....robert kirkman would do a good job on this. as would dan slott.

who is writing this anyway?....im assuming furman.....it better not be bendis...that would be wasted potential considering the entire comic would be bumblebee, luke cage, and spider-man discussing how much they like to finish each others sentences and play grab-ass with each other.

*edit* goes back and reads updates....the falcon? air support? ok I love classic avengers but you transfans are going to have a good laugh at this...I could think of alot of flying avengers better suited to that....*edit*

Shockmeister · Post by **Shockmeister** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:53 am

Originally posted by Hawkeye
*edit* goes back and reads updates....the falcon? air support? ok I love classic avengers but you transfans are going to have a good laugh at this...I could think of alot of flying avengers better suited to that....*edit*

Quasar?

Okay, that was a total guess. I have no knowledge of Quasar beyond the fact that he flies and is somehow 'cosmic'. Problem is, though, Bendis seems to like the Falcon, therefore he's always going to be pretty high on the pecking order here, though they'll have to come up with something clever to make him seem useful - I mean, he doesn't even have particularly superhuman strength or anything, does he?

Terome · Post by **Terome** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:05 pm

Haha! I have no idea what any of you are saying!

But it's fun anyway.

Pretty much everything I know about the Avengers comes from the old Captain America NES game. I really liked that game. If you had the dexterity to continually dash-attack as Cap, you could win everything.

Wasp was in it!

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:58 pm

Originally posted by Shockmeister
Quasar?

Okay, that was a total guess. I have no knowledge of Quasar beyond the fact that he flies and is somehow 'cosmic'. Problem is, though, Bendis seems to like the Falcon, therefore he's always going to be pretty high on the pecking order here, though they'll have to come up with something clever to make him seem useful - I mean, he doesn't even have particularly superhuman strength or anything, does he?

yeah falcon is pretty low on the totem pole when it comes to powers. he just flies....oh and geoff johns says that he sees through the eyes of every bird.....but nobody else agrees.

quasar (when he was alive) is pretty high powered but not a very prominent avenger because he is kinda boring (everyone likes him so its hard to do a story with him).

I was thinking more along the lines of thor (when he was alive), Ironman (when he wasnt a nazi), Namor, monica (captain marvel), Carol (captain marvel), wonderman (busiek power glowy one), justice, firestar, vision.........as better air support.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:58 am

I only know the Avengers from Disassembled (and as such I'm hoping Hawkeye with have a comedy death at the hands of the Firecons).

Ten quid says that if he's up and about by then Grimlock will fight Wolverine. This is going to be ****e isn't it?

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:01 am

IIRC Grimlock isn't on the cards, neither is Starscream. It won't be played for sensationalism much (doubt the writers would've chosen the New Avengers roster if it was; there are far more showy Marvel heroes than them.)

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:55 pm

as im happy we are talking about the avengers for once I just wanted to be a little off topic...

anybody seen the post civil-war new avengers previews?

bendis finnally got his way. they managed to make an avengers roster without having One. single. avenger. in the lineup. that has to be some sort of record.

i mean the new avengers were a bit old meets new before (having cap, ironman, and ms. marvel as a gueststar) but the new lineup is ridiculous.

luke cage is the leader (as we know a man steeped in avengers history to qualify to lead the team)

and its rounded out by spider-man, ronin(lol), wolverine, iron fist, spiderwoman (the orginal not the second one who was an avenger),and dr. strange (who should have been one before but yeah).

wow that lineup just screams AVENGERS! (or people bendis likes....)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:37 pm

A multi-company crossover that isn't done for sensationalism? Believe that when I see it, frankly. How it can be anything other than a big attention/sales grab is beyond me... I dunno, maybe I'm just missing all these areas where a Transformer story needs Avengers, or vice-versa. Like Hearts of Steel, at this stage I can't see any need to tell this story, aside from bending over for the almighty dollar.

I don't really know anything about the new Avengers book because I tend to avoid expensive bad comics that I'll hate lately, so can't really comment much further, but I can't help feeling there will be massive plausibility compromises (a la the various GI Joe crossovers) to make the two anything like compatible.

Originally posted by Denyer
Brubaker or Morrison, as long as Morrison wasn't doing the same apparently ludicrously decompressed angle he seems to be now (he did JLA well enough, so can do a regular cape book, and crossovers tend to have to move...)

Exactly... you've got qualifiers for liking the Authority, let alone an Authority/Transformers crossover. You told me this would be Busiek and Senior teaming up, with the definitive 1998 Avengers line-up, I'd be champing at the bit. New Avengers, though? It's a bit like Transformers Armada for a diehard geewuner.

Still, ludicrously decompressed would fit IDW's style

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:33 pm

so are the autobots pro-registration or anti?

Viewfind · Post by **Viewfind** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:22 am

Stuart Moore had a amazing run on Firestorm so i'm really looking foward to this.

Shockmeister · Post by **Shockmeister** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:24 am

Originally posted by Hawkeye
so are the autobots pro-registration or anti?

Anti. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, remember...and that includes the freedom to punch Iron Adolf in the face very hard.

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:07 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
A multi-company crossover that isn't done for sensationalism?

It's worked for various projects Wildstorm has done. Though by sensationalism, I'm talking the type of one-upmanship dross Marvel vs DC or Avengers/JLA (let's see who's faster, etc) rapidly turns into.

Comics in general are fairly sensationalist, if broad definitions are in use...

definitive 1998 Avengers line-up

Did definitive stuff happen for Marvel in the 90s? I was only really following X-Men, so there's a good chance I missed something.

you've got qualifiers for liking the Authority, let alone an Authority/Transformers crossover.

More "don't use sh*t writers" rather than "don't try to tell a story with A/B/C that includes X/Y/Z."

Do massively prefer in-continuity stuff, though.

Post by **Denyer** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:24 am

Interview with Stuart Moore --

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=99&itemid=9440

Seems to have his head screwed on with regard to the scale of the project. (Elements like DH, Unicron/Galactus, etc. ruled out, and even the originally proposed Sentinels.)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:05 pm

Originally posted by Denyer
Did definitive stuff happen for Marvel in the 90s? I was only really following X-Men, so there's a good chance I missed something.

Depends... like most "kids" things, people get attached to both the stuff they grew up with, and certain characters... so people tend to tar the whole output with the same brush because, say, Spider-Man was poor in a certain era, or because X-Men did something with a character they'd always liked... But the Heroes Return stuff was very, very well received. I dunno, Marvel fans tend to be tossers, putting the Silver Age on a pedestal and slating everything with art that doesn't look like it's from a colouring book.

For me, and I'd wager a lot of open-minded sane people, Busiek's take on Avengers (and the line-up itself) was definitive.

Like I say, I just can't see the two being compatible outside of a nice, big poster print. I think I own two "cross-company" crossovers, and only one's good, and that's because a) it cheats, really and b) it's in-continuity [Planetary: Night on Earth]. The other one, unusually for the writer, is fanboy pandering nonsense [Terra Occulta].