2014 Japan-exclusive toys: Masterpiece, Generations, etc

Post by **Blackjack** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:41 pm

Fortress Maximus? Star Saber? Powermaster Optimus?

PFFFT

OPTIMUS PRIMAL OPTIMUS PRIMAL OPTIMUS PRIMAL

GIVE THE KING KONG THE GLORY HE DESERVES

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:56 pm

The "concept" car was discredited early on as mistranslated. So no, it's a car that they had problems with the license before. Let's see who it is...

Primal? Heh, that would be interesting, especially in his basic body (the one I like the most). But that would bring scale to issue. Will he be a scout to fit with MP10? Will he just disregard it all and be around MP10 height?

To be honest, Takara is on good terms and has released a car from most brands that cover G1 guys; Toyota [Trailbreaker], Nissan [Ironhide, Ratchet, Prowl etc], Chevrolette [Tracks], Honda [Skids!!!], Mitsubishi [Hound]...the only ones they did/do have an issue with are Ferrari, VW, Porsche and whichever brand made the Lancia Stratos.

While Ginrai/PM Prime is an interesting choice if they do it correctly, it'll just be MP10 all redone once again. Whereas any of the others will be something visually entirely new.

Do we have any idea how the japanese series ranked up in popularity? Might give us a hint on who's most possible to get made first.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:19 pm

Knightdramon wrote:whichever brand made the Lancia Stratos.

Random speculation ahoy: -

I think they're still owned by Fiat (who also own Ferrari and Alfa Romeo; I think Abarth as well). Ferrari are notoriously difficult with merch because the whole brand runs on exclusivity and people not being able to afford them, so it might not be a Fiat Group policy so much as a specific Ferrari one. Lancia are more of a middle class brand IIRC (I think the rough aspirational hierarchy is Ferrari > Alfa > Lancia > Fiat) and are theoretically a lot less fussy.

Mirage will be owned by whoever the rights for the Ligier designs ended up with after Prost folded, I guess. Possibly reverted back to Guy Ligier himself, which could be interesting as he's a massive twat and is independantly wealthy. Or they could have been auctioned off among the Prost assets, which would leave them with basically anyone.

VW is probably a sailed ship, sadly... if they couldn't get them onboard for the film it's difficult to see them caving for MP.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:42 pm

Cliffjumper wrote: VW is probably a sailed ship, sadly... if they couldn't get them onboard for the film it's difficult to see them caving for MP.

I think the films actually made a pretty decent case against the companies that didn't want to be involved. I don't know if Chevrolet's poster child rose in sales after 07, but it's a great form of publicity regardless.

I understand where there's limitations in car company relationships when it comes to names [ie naming a car of your brand "Breakdown" would be like soliciting a Hot Dog named "Juicy Dick on Bun"], but licenses like these are pretty good advertisement mediums.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:05 pm

IIRC Volkwagen's case against entirely comes down to the moral desire not to have the company associated with 'war toys' and they've gone on record to say so (but they were more than happy to be involved in Herbie Fully Loaded as it was a family film with no real violence); lots of German companies still carry a tremendous amount of war guilt, deeply ingrained - the Beetle is basically the Hitlermobile. Problem is that Beetles and Porsches don't need promotion, or at least can get more than enough without having to compromise. Successful, long-established car companies have a Coca-Cola/McDonalds level of brand strength. There are probably people in countries where you can't buy Transformers who would love to have a Porsche.

Didn't GM have massive financial troubles around the same time the films were out?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mo ... ganization
The Camaro wasn't even on sale until around ROTF.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:31 pm

Hmmm, fair points. I can understand that, as well as a car company so prestigious as, say, Ferrari, not wanting to bother with something as trivial as a 90 USD toy collectible. Most Ferrari cars are made on order, right?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:34 pm

Knightdramon wrote:Hmmm, fair points. I can understand that, as well as a car company so prestigious as, say, Ferrari, not wanting to bother with something as trivial as a 90 USD toy collectible. Most Ferrari cars are made on order, right?

I'm a bit out of date but I think there's just a straight-up cap (couple of hundred a year?) with waiting lists meaning they're always in demand.

IIRC Ferrari (while obviously not on the table for MP) have a strict thing on 'damaged' cars - what would put them off would be that a Transformers figure, especially a modern one, would have to have join lines, areas which would have to deform, etc. So they've no problem with a 'solid' Hot Wheels car.

I'm convinced this is the reason for several of Dino's quirks in the finished film - his survival when he was mooted for death in Que's place, the lack of a clear transformation shot (despite it looking like an expensive transforming CGI model was made), his lack of MechTech weapons... It smacks of official cooperation (whereas The Rock didn't have this so they were able to blow one up, or at least imply that they did). It actually amazes me that they used a Ferrari for a minor character in the film considering all the hassle - I guess Bay's pretty stubborn, or the car was free if they followed the rules to the letter or something. Makes you wonder if a proper Dino/Mirage figure was ever seriously on the agenda.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:19 pm

What's the likelihood of the securing the rights to the other iconic tiny car and doing Bumblebee as a Mini?

I can't get my head around the idea of a Fort Max Masterpiece. I can't see any way of doing it properly with it being daftly expensive for such a minor character.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:07 pm

They could make him around MP10 size and have it scaled the way he was in the Marvel comics.

Or they could make him around the original's size, just with today's engineering [like the cassettes so far].

First option could be around 22000 yen, like Convoy, second option will probably surpass 30000 yen and will make him very hard to get/import, financially-wise.

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:59 am

I don't see much point in a Masterpiece Fortress... shrinking him down means losing most of the base mode's interactions with smaller figures, whereas keeping it a similar size to the original seems silly when it was just reissued. If it had a five year gap, maybe, but not within 18 months.

I'd guess Star Saber would be next most likely option, but it'd be lame without Victory Leo to go with it immediately (I'm sure it'd follow later). Powermaster Prime would be too close in design to the existing Convoy mold to really justify. All the other given options have figures that have designs that have aged well enough to not really need Masterpiecerizing.

Skyquake87 · Post by **Skyquake87** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:50 am

G2 Sideswipe? Can Clampdown and Deepcover (the latter of whom these test shots look mostly like anyway) be far behind..?

As for pondering the likes of Fort Max etc - honestly not interested. Can't really see the need for MPing Optimus Primal either.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:31 am

Clay wrote:I don't see much point in a Masterpiece Fortress... shrinking him down means losing most of the base mode's interactions with smaller figures, whereas keeping it a similar size to the original seems silly when it was just reissued. If it had a five year gap, maybe, but not within 18 months.

Well, it can't be worse off than MP01L and MP10? MP01L reissued, stated, for the Last time...and six months later, a new, much improved MP10 comes along for twice the cost.

I'm really, really curious to see how they'll pull Maximus if he's the one, he is the one I want the most, with Sabre and Dai Atlas inches behind him.

Though to be honest, I'm thinking of IDW Maximus, whereas the poll is for the japanese audience. Which series was the most popular one? Victory? Masterforce? Micron Legend? Who knows?

"Trouble" is, besides Maximus and the beast figures, everybody else on that poll combines with at least one more bot. Will, say, an MP Fire Convoy warrant an MP God Magnus? Victory Leo? Skyfire? Wing Saber?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:46 pm

I'd quite like to see an updated RiD Optimus (Super God Power Fire Justice Nee-Naw Nee-Naw Nee-Naw Convoy, was it?). Nice design but a bit too plasticky, could have done with chrome and diecast.

Mind, it's Japan. G1 Convoy will win.

Post by **Blackjack** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:39 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:Mind, it's Japan. G1 Convoy will win.

The choices are follows, so I assume Powermaster Prime? Other than Prime and Primal I literally don't give a shit if anyone else in the list gets a Masterpiece toy, and as some have pointed out making a Masterpiece Fortress Maximus would be kind of redundant since the original toy is big enough.

Seibertron wrote:-Fortress Maximus (G1)
-God Ginrai/Powermaster Prime (G1)
-Star Saber (Transformers: Victory)
-Dai Atlas (Transformers: Zone)
-Optimus Primal (Beast Wars)
-Lio Convoy (Beast Wars II)
-Big Convoy (Beast Wars Neo)
-Fire Convoy (Car Robots)
-Optimus Prime (Armada)
-Optimus Prime (Energon)
-Galaxy Convoy (Galaxy Force)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:32 pm

It doesn't matter if he's not an option. It's Japan, G1 Convoy will win.

I would actually love to see a Movie Masterpiece Prime... his design is just made for diecast.

Post by **Warcry** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:43 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:What's the likelihood of the securing the rights to the other iconic tiny car and doing Bumblebee as a Mini?

Actually, this gets me thinking...would they even want a license to make Bumblebee or any of the other Minibots? Neither the original toys nor the character models really looked like the cars they were supposed to be, and even Bumblebee -- one of the more real-world accurate of the group -- was quite deformed. Considering how cartoon-accurate the recent MPs have been I think Takara would be more inclined to give Bumblebee a cartoon-accurate "cute" alt-mode and dodge the licensing issue entirely if VW gives them trouble.

Windcharger and Tailgate were the only Minibots who really, really closely resembled the cars they were based on. And the odds of them getting MPs is vanishingly slim. But guys like Bumblebee, Brawn, Cliffjumper...there's really no need for them to be highly accurate scale reproductions of cars in alt-mode.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:56 pm

Would work for Cliffy I think (seriously, how many people actually knew he was based on a Porsche until they hit the internet?)... Bumblebee would be tricky. He is still very recognisably a Beetle even in the cartoon thanks to the distinctive bonnet; it'd probably need to be even more generic on a toy.

But yeh, I do agree that's what they'll do when it comes down to it but I think Jazz and Bumblebee will suffer more due to being based on fairly distinctive cars. Windcharger will do better because there're lots of beefy American muscle cars and, well, HasTak already have a relationship with GM.

Brawn, Gears and Huffer are, IIRC, already have intentionally generic vehicle modes, drawing from a few different models of the time, so there'd be no problem just cloning their alt modes.

(and going back up a bit, more of an obstacle from Mirage might be Gitanes; though I suppose they could just put him out minus decals)

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:32 pm

To clarify (better wording came later), most of the point of the (new)Masterpiece line seems to be to close the gap between a character's depiction in fiction and a character's depiction in merchandise. Since all of those options from the Beast series onward have minimal differences, it'd be a bit pointless to me.

Knightdramon · Post by **Knightdramon** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:27 pm

To be fair, until about a year or so ago, the MP line was more like "hey let's update X character by today's engineering and looks" all the way up to Grimlock.

To be perfectly fair, most figures AFTER Fire Convoy [leaders] were compromised because they had to combine or had a stupid gimmick tacked on them. I can see how a Masterpiece Armada Prime would be a vast improvement, or how an MP Galaxy Force Prime could slim down the design, add more articulation, and allow for many more poses once you have that backpack on.

Post by **Clay** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:46 pm

Knightdramon wrote:To be perfectly fair, most figures AFTER Fire Convoy [leaders] were compromised because they had to combine or had a stupid gimmick tacked on them. I can see how a Masterpiece Armada Prime would be a vast improvement, or how an MP Galaxy Force Prime could slim down the design, add more articulation, and allow for many more poses once you have that backpack on.

It's been done.

But, if they make any of the combiner-type Primes again, they'd just need to have backwards compatibility with the existing add-on bots, not brand new sets.