Characters the films got right

[Cliffjumper]

Of the 'old' characters revisited, imitated or utterly changed for the films, who came off better? Obviously, we've got to ignore the likes of Barricade and Blackout, who shared names with G1 non-entities no-one remembers (was there a G1 Blackout, actually? Some sort of plane-arse?).

For me, the ones it really got right were: -

Optimus Prime - finally, an Optimus Prime who seems aware he's in a war. I liked the deeper Marvel one a lot, but every now and then you wished he'd just cut loose and get on with things. And boy, does the film Optimus get on with things. Every now and then we'd get a glimpse of what Optimus could do - TF:TM, Divide and Conquer, Prey, Crisis of Command - but it was nice that this was pretty consistent. And is it me, or has Peter Cullen got more awesome with age?

Ironhide - the original Ironhide is a blank, he's always been a blank - unless you count a stupid voice, stupider 'personality' and even stupider death. Movie Ironhide exhudes menace and actually does things you remember.

Bumblebee - as with Optimus, of course there was always much more to him than the limp cardboard cut-out from the cartoon. However, finally giving the guy a consistent spine and some reason to always be picked for stuff. And he's adoreable.

[Wildrider]

I think the execution and portrayal of Soundwave and Ravage in 'ROTF' were perfect to be honest, Soundwave as a satellite array just fits and Ravage was similarly ace.

Not much in terms of characterisation for either over the course of the film really, but in terms of the original characters they take their names and inspiration from, they were brought into the live action films with a perfect balance of fanboy pandering and real world modernity.

I'd say maybe Starscream, but for me the character almost devolved over the course of the trilogy into a slightly more impotent character. From the potent warrior seen in the first film to the slapstick role in 'DOTM', still fun though.

I'd agree with Prime and Ironhide, Bumblebee's character is a triumph, but perhaps because he's so bad ass and cute in equal measure.

[Cliffjumper]

I liked Starscream because he wasn't so obvious (and overexposed), but I do agree it's a shame he became more rubbish as the films went on.

Sideswipe I thought was quite impressive - a bit like Ironhide you have to admit he'd never really done much before and it was nice for him to get a few set-pieces.

Most of the Decepticons, with the odd exception like Laserbeak, didn't really do much (the amount of them that are unnamed onscreen tells the story here), but then were largely based on older characters who didn't really do much, so it's probably a draw there - what did the Constructicon Bonecrusher ever actually do?

When you stop and think about it, an awful lot of Transformers characterisation thus far comes from profile material and relatively small-scale stories, doesn't it?

EDIT: For balance, ones that really didn't come off: -

- Ratchet. Nothing whatsoever against the Movie one, really, but he was inevitably a big step back from the Marvel/Infiltration version - after the first film he did very little someone else couldn't have done.

- Jazz. Even more embarrassing than the original.

- Soundwave in DotM. I too liked him as a satellite, which was a very neat update on the idea of being the communications guy. It was a bit of a come-down to then see him reduced to a car-size guy in DotM and not really doing anything special that Barricade or whoever could have done.

This is ignoring some of the name-slapping, obviously - Skids the twin clearly isn't an update of Skids the theoretician, Scorponok the desert thing clearly isn't an update of Marvel Scorponok, etc.

[Wildrider]

On reflection I actually quite liked the realisation of Devastator in 'ROTF', I like to think of him as basically one oafish transformer that separates into multiple alt modes, rather than the traditional several transformers merging into a completely different one.

It neatly sidestepped the whole idea of a collective conscience made up of several personalities and the problems that would cause and made him basically a giant brainless siege engine.

He was used very poorly plot wise, but the concept was neat and in my humble opinion a nice update, although at the time I'm not sure I thought so.

I'm still not sold on 'Jetfire', aka Exposition bot 9000, mind you call him Alpha Trion and it's a winner.

Oh and Frenzy, Reedman and all the little fellows scuttling about, yes even little Nokia bot and his RPG were winners! Frenzy especially, when you comp[are how perfectly balanced his comic relief was, it never really diluted his threat level, he was still all sharp edges and small machine guns. Loved the fact that he always seemed perpetually annoyed.

Compare it to say Wheelie's used car salesman and it just makes Frenzy so much more loveable, ironic when the G1 incarnation of Rumble/Frenzy was essentially a dumb thug from Brooklyn in the cartoon.

[Cliffjumper]

I did like the films' general willingness to experiment a bit more with the shapes of robots and the way Transformers could be done - something like Reedman is a brilliant and quite logical idea. It was nice to have some odd stuff like Demolishor, the Doctor, Arcee, Devastator and so on - it makes you realise how unimaginative much of the line has been with its' "Here's a guy in a robot suit" design.

I liked Jetfire as a bit of comic relief, but also felt the name didn't fit - seemed more of a slapping; "Hey, we need a flying Autobot, who's the best known?".

[inflatable dalek]

"Hey, we need a flying Autobot, who's the best known?".

Air Raid!

Though considering he started off a Decepticon (like in Marvel) and had been knocked out for some time when we first met him (like in the cartoon, no pedantic naming issues please people) I'd say Jetfire was an appropriate enough name, whilst he didn't really have the same personality as he predecessors that's more due to most of them not having that much of one to start with. Christ, can you imagine Jetfire written in the style of Skyfire delivering all that exposition? "I thought you were my fwiends but all you want is to know about the Harvester... does nobody love me?"

I'm not sure how old an old character has to be to qualify for this, but I think Sentinel Prime counts as technicality even if he was only a dead arm in the Marvel stuff. And Nimoy pissed green over the Megatron: Origin version.

As far as a big dumb muscle take on the name went, I thought Scorponok worked far far better than his Beast Wars predecessor despite not even getting a line through having a couple of memorable moments. Compared to the TV version who, let's be honest, none of us ever thought of twice after he fell into that pit.

In terms of failure... Whilst he still sort of worked OK I do wish we'd had at least one film with a decent sized solo lead villain role for Megatron. They cast an actor with as much talent as Hugo Weaving (the only one of the first film bunch to have a "big" name playing them as well if you factor in that no one outside of fandom could name Cullen if their life depended on it) and underused him to the point it wouldn't have made any difference if it had been Welker. Or Kaye. Or Yo Mamma. Certainly next to the Beast Wars and G2 Marvel versions he's the little runt of the litter.

EDIT: Oh, and Spike/Sam of course.

[Cliffjumper]

I always forget Scorponok was even in Beast Wars until someone mentions it. I remember Terrosaur fine (albeit largely because he was pretty irritating), but Scorponok was always just kind of there, like a cartoon Autobot car.

[inflatable dalek]

I always forget Scorponok was even in Beast Wars until someone mentions it. I remember Terrosaur fine (albeit largely because he was pretty irritating), but Scorponok was always just kind of there, like a cartoon Autobot car.

It's telling that the subsequent muscle guys all at least had a tokenistic attempt at a personality quirk added in (mad cowboy,/deeply pissed off and unkillable/evil clone) to make them stand out a bit more. Poor old Scorponok only had the Maxamil logo on his bullets thing going for him, and they dropped that even quicker than they dropped him.

[Vin Ghostal]

To be fair, BW Scorponok did have something of a character - he filled the "fiercely loyal" role previously occupied by Soundwave, Cyclonus and the ilk. Though I haven't watched the series in years, I seem to remember Scorponok turning his guns on Terrorsaur on more than one occasion in defense of Megatron.

[Blackjack]

Like mentioned above, the movie franchise is excellent for Optimus Prime, Ironhide, Bumblebee and Sam Witwicky.

Optimus is exactly as Optimus should be. Noble, Peter Culleny voice and everything. He should be able to go from 'freedom is the right' and 'fate rarely calls us' to 'WE WILL KILL THEM ALL' at a turn of a bat. It's the way realistically a noble leader in a war should be. While it'd be more perfect with a Marvel comics style doubt moment, the 'oh shit what I have done' expression in DOTM when he arrives on the destroyed NEST base speaks more volumes.

Ironhide and Bumblebee are both much more memorable than their cartoon non-personalities. Really, after watching the movie and reading the comic and watching the cartoon you'd think Bumblebee would be cute or charming instead of being a cardboard cutout. Ditto for Ironhide. Their movieverse counterparts did more in one movie than their cartoon counterparts did in 20+ episodes.

Everybody loves Movie Bumblebee, and I do mean most of the general moviegoers. Sunbow Bumblebee is just another cardboard cutout. Heck, replace all of Bumblebee's cartoon scenes with, say, Hound or Windcharger, and it wouldn't be really noticeable.

Ditto for Sam, who's a great leading character. Spike Witwicky is a bland, boring faultless human bitch.

Laserbeak. His G1 counterparts never had anything going on, and I don't think his tech spec's interrogator or coward edge has ever been explored in fiction. In DOTM Laserbeak is easily the most sinister of the Decepticons, sounding and feeling like the kind of sick guy that'll kidnap a little kid and torture him.

Indestructible super mook Devastator-Brawl is much more impressive than G1 Brawl, whose cartoon self's only thing that he has going being the guy whose brain is stuck to a school project.

Nimoy's Sentinel Prime also easily overshadows every other Sentinel Prime before him, G1, Animated or otherwise.

I quite like Starscream, compared to his chronic backstabber G1 counterpart, he's much more fun. Megatron's bitch and they're not afraid to use it. But that's more of a personal preference, I think.

[Auntie Slag]

I agree with Vin Ghostal about Beast Wars' Scorponok's character. The fiercely loyal bit was fine, but what most impressed me at the time was an episode I saw in the late 90's where one of Scorponok's missiles knocked out and caused severe damage to Optimus Primal.

I was massively impressed because up until this point in any version of Transformers a leader could only properly be hurt by another leader. He're was a 'second stringer' with the firepower to kill a leader. That's one of the things I loved about Beast Wars, it levelled the playing field and made things more exciting (for me anyway). Rhinox could bitchslap Megatron, Waspinator could knock Primal out of the sky etc.

I think the films got all the old characters spot on (succeeding with Megatron's menace in the first film only), and surpassed themselves with Sentinel Prime. In my head Dino is nothing to do with Mirage, Que has crazy inventor Wheeljack traits but he just doesn't feel like Wheeljack to me.

I agree with Dalek too about Sam being a great character. Although to my mind he's excellent in the first, good in the second; and mostly a whining bitch in the third, sadly.

[Vin Ghostal]

I was massively impressed because up until this point in any version of Transformers a leader could only properly be hurt by another leader. He're was a 'second stringer' with the firepower to kill a leader. That's one of the things I loved about Beast Wars, it levelled the playing field and made things more exciting (for me anyway). Rhinox could bitchslap Megatron, Waspinator could knock Primal out of the sky etc.

I completely agree. I think this is also why "Divide and Conquer" was probably my favorite G1 episode as a kid, because Starscream and company put Optimus on the brink of death without Megatron. Sure, it took three of them, but it still felt like a departure from most of the rest of the series. Of course, when two Stunticons were able to fell Rodimus Prime in "The Burden Hardest to Bear," that was probably taking the concept a bit far, but you get the idea.

[Cliffjumper]

Rodimus doesn't count.

[inflatable dalek]

Dino must have made a big impact as I saw at work yesterday that Tesco sells a wine named in his honour.

[Rack 'n Ruin]

Dino must have made a big impact as I saw at work yesterday that Tesco sells a wine named in his honour.

Fino Dino vino? Primo!

Is it unexpectedly red?

[Auntie Slag]

It was just a Mirage.

[inflatable dalek]

Fino Dino vino? Primo!

Is it unexpectedly red?

Hard to tell, it was on the shelf one second, gone the next.

[Cyberman]

Ditto for Sam, who's a great leading character.

I've only seen the first movie - does he get better in the second and third?
Because from the first I can't get away from the scenes in the beginning, where he acts like an idiot and jerk.
Might be I dismiss better scenes from later, but whenever I read his name, this is what I immediately remember.

[Rack 'n Ruin]

Hard to tell, it was on the shelf one second, gone the next.

Damn scalpers. Guess I'll have to wait for the white repaint in the next wave.

[Paul053]

I've only seen the first movie - does he get better in the second and third?
Because from the first I can't get away from the scenes in the beginning, where he acts like an idiot and jerk.
Might be I dismiss better scenes from later, but whenever I read his name, this is what I immediately remember.

Is he the reason you don't watch the other two? Don't be. Ignore him because he is just an extortionist.