Rewatching Beast Wars for the first time in years...

[Cliffjumper]

Power Rangers was still the main opposition, IIRC. http://www.toyretailersassociation.co.uk/toy-year/90s covers the UK but is worth a glance for a brief refresher; anything huge in the US would have come over, if maybe a year or so behind. Action Man's probably the only one mentioned which wasn't a particular factor. However, what probably was would be the PS1 and collectable card games.

My received wisdom of the commercial success of the various lines would be:

G1 - sold like crazy until the last couple of years, albeit on a steady decline after 85/86. TBH, considering the lack of competition from non-action figure toys, I wouldn't be surprised if even, say, 1988 saw more units sold than anything pre-Bay. There had to be some real money coming in for Hasbro/Takara to continue throwing out so many unique moulds.

G2 - probably the only genuine main-line stinker. Wrong time, wrong ethos. I've heard it said the first year or so was a solid hit, but that makes no sense - why would they then drop the repaints and make all those new moulds when they had so many G1 figures to update?

BW - solid return to form, helped by TV series and what were at the time probably pretty decent figures.

BM - decline; not a disaster but enough of a damp squib to make Hasbro stop and think very seriously about the direction of the line.

RiD - cheap filler turned surprise hit; not a mega-hit or runaway success, but my reading would be that it performed better than Hasbro were expecting it to. Showed anime-lite and vehicles were the way to go.

Armada - solid hit; nothing spectacular but I'd reckon on around the same level as BW (with the qualifier that it came on the back of successful lines rather than G2). Over here at least it did well enough to garner the odd "Look what's coming back" newspaper article.

Energon - slight decline from Armada

Universe I - relative disaster, though it cost peanuts I suspect. Hasbro find that kids are no more interested in aging garish repaints with no media support than they were in 1994.

Cybertron - slight decline from Cybertron, possibly enough for Hasbro to make another end-of-BM "Right, let's have a look at this" think.

Classics - surprise hit after low expectations, basically pointing the way for filler lines to go.

Movie - ridiculously successful

Universe II - probably matched Classics due to Hasbro not being taken by surprise this time.

Animated - I would say while it was no disaster the line was probably a slight disappointment for Hasbro on the back of the film's success and considering how much they invested in it.

RotF - slight decline from Movie, but probably still sold much bigger numbers than any post-G1 non-film franchise.

2010 - pretty good, but beyond that I couldn't guess. I think they were experimenting a lot with this one in terms of finding out what would shift and what wouldn't. Probably did very well for a non-movie line.

DotM - bit of a decline compared to both previous movie lines; Cyberverse doesn't really seem to have caught on, and the rest of the line's been fairly half-hearted. The fact that we're still waiting for the Western release of toys of Soundwave and Que (both with not-inconsiderable supporting roles in the film; certainly more than, say, Bonecrusher and Jolt) six months after the film says something to me. For both the previous movie lines Hasbro seemed to be slinging out anything they could vaguely connected to the film such was the demand; this time around there have been very few non-appearing characters (if any, if we assume that the Twins and Jolt were perhaps designed when it looked like they would be in the film and then slung out anyway because the moulds were done). That said, the ROTF scouts that are still warming a lot of shelves two and a half years down the line might suggest a reason for that.

I'm sure kids will take the characters they know nothing about if they're the only choice, but they'll still look for their favourites first.

Sorry, that was pretty much what I meant. Having some sort of media role means a character jumps the queue, but at the end of the day a Transformer's a Transformer to kids. Scoop and Rapido might have been consolation prizes (in the same way Siren and Battletrap were for me), but you still bought 'em - mission accomplished for Hasbro.

The other thing worth thinking about, though, is that few kids sit down and watch/remember episodes chronologically. For all they know, B'Boom just isn't in anything they've seen. My vague childhood recollections were that toys often turned up before comic or TV exposure, and a really cool toy (e.g. Metroplex, who took, what, three years to turn up in the comic and didn't appear on terrestrial TV over here - print advertisements in the comic had an unerring habit of arriving a fair while after toys were already on sale) would sell itself.

It's anecdotal again, but I remember more thinking how cool it was when someone I already had turned up in the comic/show, but how much of this is down to the way the show especially had such a strange existence over here.

With Beast Wars having a much smaller cast, I would be really surprised if that effect wasn't even greater than it was for me. All things being equal I imagine it was a lot harder to find a Cheetor or a Waspinator than it would have been a Wolfang or a Buzz Saw.

Yeh, probably - but parents are a big factor in young kids' buying habits. They're not going to traipse around all five toy stores in town looking for Waspinator (I will segue and say he's probably a bad example - he gets blown up all the time and gets "meta for any grown-ups watching" dialogue, I'd be surprised if he was near the top of the hit list for many kids); pick one now in Target or you don't get anything.

I think the thing BW shows is there's not much difference between being given a scant role in the associated show and not being in it at all. If it had made a significant difference in sales, say enough to justify creating a CGI model, we'd have had Soundwave and Scarem dropped into the show somewhere to hang around in the background or whatever, but clearly it wasn't. Hasbro seem to have just pushed for a cross-section of toys from the range, presumably reliant on cross-sells and shelf-proximity to shift the rest.

The first movie line probably demonstrates most how things work when the line is really firing on all cylinders - kids want Bumblebee, but the franchise was doing so well when Bumblebee wasn't there it was able to shift considerable units of Stockade, Swindle and Landmine.

[inflatable dalek]

It's also worth noting that Power Rangers ran in pretty much the same slot of the same morning show (well, it might still have been called TV AM at that point but it's basically the same thing) that Beast Wars would a couple of years later but did much, much better than it despite starting with that level playing field. Despite the fact we were probably slightly too old for it (it was much more my brothers thing) that days episode of PR would usually get talked about at school and the arrival of the EVIL Green Ranger was big event TV. I'm not actually sure many people even noticed Beast Wars was on, I was actually surprised to see GMTV wound up showing the first two seasons as it only seemed to get a promotional push for the initial batch of (Easter?) holiday episodes.

Ironically enough, I think that the Channel 5 screening long after the fact did more to let the show have more of an impact in this country. Despite being the minnow of the UK stations it's kids TV slot was very successful at that time (the weekday slot was making headlines around that time for easily thrashing the final days of The Big Breakfast in the ratings) and the entire show being screened through twice in the proper order with no interruptions over two years let it make a deeper impression. Ironically I think more kids would have seen episodes of BW during that run than the contemporary shows ( late RID early Armada IIRC).

[Cliffjumper]

Yeh, BM and RiD were definitely on satellite TV a couple of years before it had enough reach over here - especially as Fox Kids were pretty smart to the gen-X appeal of 'zany' cartoons as opposed to 'straight' ones, a hell of a factor with audiences in the thousands - IIRC both were buried on early mornings and thus steam-rollered by the BBC/ITV "contained" shows. I think the failure of BW (regardless of how much of a success it might have been in America, over here it was a flop in toy stores) put ITV off.

But then TF shows have always got slaughtered over here due to the bottleneck of only ITV really being able to show the things until relatively recently (C4 have always done kids' TV with mild disgust, instead trying to sweep up teens and students), with lots of shows competing, so it's not really a surprise.

It's worth noting that Power Rangers, at least before the live-action TF films moved the goalposts, is every bit as much as a behemoth of toy aisles and kids' TV as Transformers ever was, and seems to be one of the few things of that era to develop a sizeable fanbase.

[Jaynz]

G2 was a mixed failure. The first year saw some sales peaks in that you could get the original Optimus Prime (with a black trailer). But a lot of the other figures in the first year warmed for years. Starscream and Ramjet could be found, easily, as G2 wrapped up. There were a few hit figures, such as Prime, Laser Prime, Tank Megatron, and Dreadwing, but there as a lot of cold plastic as well.

Beast Wars was mostly a hit, though when it fell it fell hard. The big problem would be a combination of the show's very limited cast and the relatively uninspired selection of second-tier toys. There weren't many 'cool' toys that the show didn't feature in the first year and a half, and they would warm shelves even into the Unicron Trilogy.

The Transmetals also really hurt, with few 'cool' toys, characters who were now dead getting new bodies as if they weren't. Really stupid gimmicks at times... the hideous and often idoitic designs of the Fuzors... the half-ass attempts at Transmetals IIs. There were hits in each line, but there was ONE Silverbolt out of 10 fuzors. Nine of out ten being both rubbish and non-show didn't help sales (Quickstrike being rubbish but being a show character...)

Beast Machines, for its part, was a dire failure. The only toys that really moved were Tankor and Jetstorm. The Maximals were nearly all abysmal toys (with the exception of Blackarachnia), often at wild scales (Leader-size Nightscream? Supreme Cheetor?) with ugly decos and bizzare gimmicks which only vaguely resembled their show counterparts (which weren't exactly pretty either). It did so badly that not only was the line cancelled before it was complete, but the planned sequel line, Transtech, was also cancelled during early production!

It's telling the that Dinobot subline for Beast Machines did better than the main line.

RID was a surprise hit, and caught Hasbro (who was only looking to stop the hemmoraging) completely by surprise. It helped that the show wasn't an emo-angst-Scientology-fest, but the non-hyper-garish realistic alt-modes probably helped a lot more with the line. Suddenly Transformers didn't suck anymore...

But this came at a cost. To fill the 'toy void', Hasbro came out with Universe. This was mostly Beast Wars-era molds to begin with with awful decos on toys kids had already passed on. Also, yellow. Lots and lots of yellow. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove, that Universe's release is what kept the 'brand' down despite RID's comeback. Their sales were figured together, after all.

Armada came out as a mixed success. The minicons were mega-hits and remain popular to this day. On the other hand, the regular figures didn't seem to do all that well. It wasn't uncommon to see the brand new 'Powerlinx' versions of characters on pegs and shelves right next to their non-selling original versions. There were a couple of standouts, such as Demolishor and Tidal Wave, and Unicron of course, but the 'big' part of the line seemed meh.

Energon was apparently tied in Armada for success, partially due to continuing the minicons (which remained popular) but also do to much-improved molds from the previous toy line. Unlike Armada, regular-line toys for Energon actually started to sell out. The primary shelf-warmers in the line were repaints of Armada toys. (And, some Armada toys were still shelf-warming THROUGH the Energon line.)

Cybertron I can't answer too much, I had largely given up the toys by this point (the cost of collecting was well exceeding my desire) and only picked up a few that interested me. They seemed to be less successful overall than Energon, but didn't have nearly the shelf-warming issues that plagued Armada or Universe.

[Knightdramon]

Pretty much agree on the toyline front, except for the following...

Here in Greece [at least], BW show characters moved. Only non-show bots got left behind.

BM saw limited distribution, at least here.

I believe that Hasbro came out and said that at the time, ROTF was their best selling TF line. Sincerely doubt that DOTM fared better, especially with their release variety up until now. Every wave so far includes one Bumblebee, they put out the Wrecker that doesn't SPEAK before Que\Soundwave and sadly [not hasbro's fault], most of the cast are repeat characters who children already have toys in one way or the other.

[Warcry]

Some months into the show being aired over here and I couldn't lay my hands on a deluxe Cheetor figure anywhere near where I lived (i did eventually when Woolies had a promotion on red packed beast wars figures shortly after the Transmetal / Fuzor era was in full swing).

That actually makes me wonder about something else...when exactly did the Beast Wars show start, in relation to when the toyline was launched. I remember there being a huge gap, but 'huge' to a twelve year old could still easily be no more than a few months.

Despite the fortunes of the TV show, Beast Wars remainded a strong seller as far as I could see (a good barometer is how much space Argos devote to a given toyline in their Catalogue - Beast Wars for most of its life got a full page, declining to a half page with the Transmetal 2 and follow on Beast Machines line. Not bad going for a line that didn't really have much support from its accompanying media, which was just shown during holidays).

I have similar memories of the toy assortments we saw in the Sears catalogue here. The first few years of Beast Wars had a lot of presence including fairly large shots of the 'big toys' of the year like the Ultras, or Magnaboss and Tripredacus (side-note: those things still creep me out even today). But the year the TM2s were out their space was cut back a lot, with only a couple random Deluxes (not just the show guys, because I actually ordered Prowl from them) getting space alongside the big toys.

G2 - probably the only genuine main-line stinker. Wrong time, wrong ethos. I've heard it said the first year or so was a solid hit, but that makes no sense - why would they then drop the repaints and make all those new moulds when they had so many G1 figures to update?

Well, the first wave couldn't have tanked completely or that would have been the end of it. I think it may have been a success on Hasbro's end without necessarily being a success for retailers, though...stores may have bought into the "Transformers are back! The kiddies will buy them like mad!" hype, but every single assortment from the first wave could still be had easily when the line went on clearance three years later so obviously it never sold through.

Sorry, that was pretty much what I meant. Having some sort of media role means a character jumps the queue, but at the end of the day a Transformer's a Transformer to kids. Scoop and Rapido might have been consolation prizes (in the same way Siren and Battletrap were for me), but you still bought 'em - mission accomplished for Hasbro.

That's true, but I actually bought them (and most of my Micromasters and other late G1/G2 non-entities) at clearance after passing on them repeatedly in favour of Hot Rod or Kup or Bumblebee or (in G2) the Aerialbots and Dinobots. Had G2 in particular continued, that money would have been spent on an assortment of Protectobots, Stunticons and whatever other G1 rehashes were in the pipe before I even considered Rapido or Leadfoot or Afterburner or Skyjack.

It's anecdotal again, but I remember more thinking how cool it was when someone I already had turned up in the comic/show, but how much of this is down to the way the show especially had such a strange existence over here.

That's true, although by the time I got into Transformers the cartoon was entirely focused on toys I could never get and the comics had mostly given up on introducing anyone new other than as background cameos. I think the only toys that ever surprised me like this as a kid were Misfire, Waverider and Quickmix...and even then I don't think they did anything other than stand around in the background for a few issues, then die.

Yeh, probably - but parents are a big factor in young kids' buying habits.

That's definitely true, and it probably helped to sell the non-show BW guys to kids once all the characters they recognized were gone off the shelves. But like you say, it didn't work out that well for the random nobody ROTF toys.

I think the thing BW shows is there's not much difference between being given a scant role in the associated show and not being in it at all.

I think it depends on what that role is, too. G1 seemed to have the marketing side of things down pretty well. Most of the toys in the first couple years' lineup got at least one episode centred around them, even if they were otherwise jsut background fodder. Any kid who saw Sea Change or Triple Takeover would instantly know who Seaspray, Astrotrain or Blitzwing were even if they never saw an episode featuring them again. But if someone's just going to hang around in the background while the important characters are doing everything interesting (like Jolt or the Wreckers or most of the ROTF/DOTM Decepticons) then it's probably not doing them any good.

It's worth noting that Power Rangers, at least before the live-action TF films moved the goalposts, is every bit as much as a behemoth of toy aisles and kids' TV as Transformers ever was, and seems to be one of the few things of that era to develop a sizeable fanbase.

Power Rangers is actually a good comparison. A lot of people think the franchise died after the initial MMPR frenzy faded out, just like a lot of people thought that Transformers had died out after G1. But just like TFs were pre-Bay it's been ticking along with healthy but not spectacular sales for a couple decades.

G2 was a mixed failure. The first year saw some sales peaks in that you could get the original Optimus Prime (with a black trailer). But a lot of the other figures in the first year warmed for years. Starscream and Ramjet could be found, easily, as G2 wrapped up. There were a few hit figures, such as Prime, Laser Prime, Tank Megatron, and Dreadwing, but there as a lot of cold plastic as well.

Most of those toys were still easy to find when the line was cleared out, so it's hard to say that any of them really counted as a success. And honestly, that reads more like a list of toys that are well-remembered by the fandom than anything else.

But this came at a cost. To fill the 'toy void', Hasbro came out with Universe. This was mostly Beast Wars-era molds to begin with with awful decos on toys kids had already passed on. Also, yellow. Lots and lots of yellow. I strongly suspect, but cannot prove, that Universe's release is what kept the 'brand' down despite RID's comeback. Their sales were figured together, after all.

Your memory is playing tricks on you, I think. Universe didn't actually show up until 2003 (about half way through Armada, or thereabouts) to capitalize on the success of Armada without shelling out the cash to design new figures for the line.

The line's low overhead meant that sales didn't need to be very high for it to count as a success in Hasbro's books. With the molds already paid off and minimal design time devoted to each figure (just a colourblind deco artist, essentially) the margin that Hasbro made on each figure would be a lot higher than what they made off of an Armada/Energon toy selling at the same price point. So I'd guess that it was at least mildly profitable for them, especially since it's cancellation seemed to have been brought about by retailers (who just plain didn't want the line anymore) rather than Hasbro itself.

[Jaynz]

Most of those toys were still easy to find when the line was cleared out, so it's hard to say that any of them really counted as a success. And honestly, that reads more like a list of toys that are well-remembered by the fandom than anything else.

Laser Prime and Dreadwing were at the tail of the line. They were shipping as G2 was cancelled. The first tank Megs (The big one) was actually a strong seller, but the hero one warmed shelves for a long time. Pity, it was a good toy, but if you already had the big brother version...

Your memory is playing tricks on you, I think. Universe didn't actually show up until 2003 (about half way through Armada, or thereabouts) to capitalize on the success of Armada without shelling out the cash to design new figures for the line.

For some reason I had it pegged earlier. Admittedly, Universe 2003 was such a blight that I do my best to forget it.

So I'd guess that it was at least mildly profitable for them, especially since it's cancellation seemed to have been brought about by retailers (who just plain didn't want the line anymore) rather than Hasbro itself.

Retailers don't peg the difference between different lines of Transformers, other than if there's more than a couple of them. To them, Optimus Prime is about as meaningful as Fangry. "Transformers are selling well, we'll take some more," is about as far as their thinking goes, which is why we had so many bad efforts in Universe. So long as demand for Armada's pegged figures was strong, Hasbro could throw them anything.

[Warcry]

The first tank Megs (The big one) was actually a strong seller

Not nearly strong enough. I think I waited it out until I could pick one up for half of the original price, six months or so after Beast Wars was available. It was still fairly easy to find one then, if I remember right.

But the wave system wasn't nearly as entrenched then, so we can't really say how long the toy shipped for either.

For some reason I had it pegged earlier. Admittedly, Universe 2003 was such a blight that I do my best to forget it.

I wouldn't malign it too much. It was obviously enough of a success that Hasbro were confindent that they'd be able to sell the second Universe line alongside Animated, among all the other 'secondary' lines we've gotten since then.

The line actually had a fair few good toys in it, actually. It's just that they mostly came at the tail end, when everyone had already made up their mind based on ghastly stuff like Silverbolt, the lazy Car Bros redecos and some of the truly awful store exclusives. If nothing else, they improved on almost every TM2 and Beast Machines mold that they touched.

Retailers don't peg the difference between different lines of Transformers, other than if there's more than a couple of them. To them, Optimus Prime is about as meaningful as Fangry. "Transformers are selling well, we'll take some more," is about as far as their thinking goes, which is why we had so many bad efforts in Universe. So long as demand for Armada's pegged figures was strong, Hasbro could throw them anything.

But they obviously do differentiate to some degree. There is seperate shelf space set aside for different lines, obviously, so stores must track and order them seperately. And anecdotally, we know that stores didn't want to carry the last of the Animated molds as exclusives (and Hasbro did want to get them released, since the alternative was eating the costs of the new molds). Likewise, stores cancelled a lot of Universe exclusives while the Armada and Energon lines were doing well. So obviously they knew that Universe was the weaker sister, so to speak.

[Cliffjumper]

Yeh, I really can't see Crap Universe particularly costing Hasbro much apart from a little retailer good-will. They didn't spend much on fiction (just that CD Rom), the moulds were all pretty much ready to go (there were those handful of recolours - arctic Ruination, Dreadwing, Destructicons - tagged on the end of RiD that flip-flopped about branding IIRC). The RiD tail end ones didn't seem to go that badly, but those Armada-branded BW recolours were still hanging around in some places here alongside the '07 stuff. IIRC, Crap Universe came out right on the tail-end of Armada as the first attempt at an "off-season" filler line (the CDs were, IIRC, packed with the aforementioned BW recolours).

I suspect the first year or so of G2 might have been the same story - the figures were costing Hasbro next to nothing to put out, so they'd see a profit even if it was selling less than the line was in 1990. The curious thing is why they suddenly started pumping money into the line (IIRC, the Japanese line came out as the American one was dying, so it doesn't seem to be an RiD-style case of "Well, Takara have done the moulds, so we might as well). Presumably this was just a marketing cock-up, though - "These Transformers aren't selling; must be that the moulds are past it rather than the concept, if we make more advanced figures that'll sort it". Not that I'm fussed, we got Laser Op, Road Pig, Hooligan and the Go-Bots out of it after all.

I'd also say there are exceptions to retailer recognition with some characters for larger figures, especially post-07 - Ultimate Optimus wouldn't have got made if he wasn't Optimus, ditto Ultimate Bumblebee. Brawl seems to be the exception that proves the rule that Leader figures have to be big names even if there are more fitting candidates from a scale point of view, and he seems to have shipped in much smaller quantities that Prime and Megatron (and Ironhide seems to have done the same trick this time around).

The problem with using Argos catalogue space (I can't speak for Sears) is that Argos have long had a good relationship with Hasbro, hence their ongoing series of exclusives (MP figures, much of the Alternators line, various movie multipacks and assortments, IIRC something from RiD , etc.). Hasbro in return get a lot of space in the book - it's hype, not demand (especially as toy chains began to close and Argos were one of the few widespread chains to carry a significant amount of TFs). Broadly, the UK market spent best part of a decade paying penance for Euro Classics and our extra year of G1 figs

But like you say, it didn't work out that well for the random nobody ROTF toys.

Nah, but distribution seemed to work out better for RotF so there was always choice (and Deluxes didn't cost significantly more). I think it also didn't help that the RotF Scouts were such an uninspiring-looking bunch of figures - I can't see many kids going mad about Ransack and Ejector, for example. TBH I'm not the least bit surprised they dropped the assortment for DotM]But just like TFs were pre-Bay it's been ticking along with healthy but not spectacular sales for a couple decades.[/quote]

Mmm, I usually have a nose in TRU just in case they've randomly moved back to 1980s chunkiness for the Zords, and there seems to be new product about as often as there is for TFs.

[Jaynz]

But the wave system wasn't nearly as entrenched then, so we can't really say how long the toy shipped for either.

Both he and Prime shipped for the first two years. (Toys were done en-annum then, and popular ones may carry over). Prime was effectively replaced by Laser Prime. Megatron would have been replaced by ATB Megatron, but the line killed before its release.

I wouldn't malign it too much. It was obviously enough of a success that Hasbro were confindent that they'd be able to sell the second Universe line alongside Animated, among all the other 'secondary' lines we've gotten since then.

I'll malign it lots! Universe 2.0 was a very very different beast, as you know, and its entire concept was based on branded characters rather than random repaints with random names done randomly. It really owes a lot more to the surprise hit of the Classics line than to Universe 1.0.

The line actually had a fair few good toys in it, actually. It's just that they mostly came at the tail end, when everyone had already made up their mind based on ghastly stuff like Silverbolt, the lazy Car Bros redecos and some of the truly awful store exclusives. If nothing else, they improved on almost every TM2 and Beast Machines mold that they touched.

Again, the problem was that they were releasing new decos of toys that were already passed upon in the previous three years. Or, worse still, new decos of last year's characters and toys that had just cleared the shelves, while not actually being close enough to the RID cast or the Armada cast to be a selling point. It certainly didn't help that so many of the decos, particularly the early ones, were just so God Awful.

But they obviously do differentiate to some degree. There is seperate shelf space set aside for different lines, obviously, so stores must track and order them seperately.

They sort by brand, wave, and assortment, in that order of importance. They do see a branding difference between the current movie line, the current cartoon, and the filler line. But don't count on them to really understand those differences. (This is why we saw so many universe-bound exclusives become RotF exclusives, and is also why Wal*Mart's action figure aisle has a shit load of action-movie toys that never sell, and endless Star Wars.)

And anecdotally, we know that stores didn't want to carry the last of the Animated molds as exclusives (and Hasbro did want to get them released, since the alternative was eating the costs of the new molds).

Again, it's all branding. The stores wanted more movie toys. That's all they knew. If Hasbro were just dealing with retailers, they could have repackaged every last Animated toy as a Revenge of the Fallen toy and the retailers would have been more than happy to buy them.

In fact, for some Universe figures and quite a lot of Energon and Cybertron fiqures, that's exactly what they did.

[Skyquake87]

That actually makes me wonder about something else...when exactly did the Beast Wars show start, in relation to when the toyline was launched. I remember there being a huge gap, but 'huge' to a twelve year old could still easily be no more than a few months.

As with G2, the line was 'tested' in TRU (i think) before a full launch. G2 had a preview launch in '92 before being rolled out everywhere in '93. Likewise, I believe some of the early BW figures were released in late 1995 (probably not much to go on, but I picked up Rattrap and Terrorsaur from UK retailer Toymaster that were on US cards stickered with Hasbro Europe labels - and for some weird reason the US Beast Wars logo was stickered over...with exactly the same US logo. This is only a point of interest as we got the Tri-Logo European packaging- and they are both copyright stamped 1995, whereas the other figures I picked up were all copyright 1996).

In the UK, the BW toyline launched late on in 1997 (G2 still being on the shelves at this late stage), was widely available everywhere in 1998 and the TV show (if memory serves) launched around February/ March '98, so a lead time of only two - three months tops over the TV show. Bit of a crazy time, as - unusually- we got a lot of TF product in a very short space of time.

Also, I've just remembered how hard it was collecting RiD in the shops. I don't know how well it was selling, but I found it hard work finding the figures. I remember being particularly galled that the only place I could Wedge was in Forbidden Planet, whom as usual were charging over the odds. Paying £17 for that little squirt still stings even now, more than ten years on. Bastards.

As for Universe '03, line I rather liked some of those recolours especially Nemesis Prime & The RiD Build Team as Constructicons. I'd like a Frostbite one day too, but he seems a bit dear for what he is these days...

[Jaynz]

Yeh, I really can't see Crap Universe particularly costing Hasbro much apart from a little retailer good-will. They didn't spend much on fiction (just that CD Rom), the moulds were all pretty much ready to go (there were those handful of recolours - arctic Ruination, Dreadwing, Destructicons - tagged on the end of RiD that flip-flopped about branding IIRC).

As far as I know, the larger tail-end RID toys were always RID. The spychangers got rebranded into Universe directly after RID's cancellation as store exclusives. The Kay*Bee Destructicons, Dreadwing were 'pushed' into Universe via 3H's fiction, but they were released as RID.

Ruination got a 'desert' redeco that put him into Universe. The original and the 'urban' redeco were always RID.

I suspect the first year or so of G2 might have been the same story - the figures were costing Hasbro next to nothing to put out, so they'd see a profit even if it was selling less than the line was in 1990. The curious thing is why they suddenly started pumping money into the line

There wasn't a whole lot actually new in G2 until the tail end. The first year filled the line with the Color Changers, Skyscorchers and Axelerators, which had already been made for the UK.

Second year new molds were the two Heroes, Laser Rods, and Rotor Force. That year finished with Dreadwing, which was the most ambitious of the figures out. So only 12 new molds for the line at this point.

Final year gave you Laser Prime, 6 Spychangers, 3 Cyberjets, 2 Laser Cycles, and 2 Autorollers. So, 14 new molds, and other than Prime, not a very ambitious year as far as the designs go. That's actually only 26 new molds over three years.

Finally, there was design work for 6 more Spychangers, four flipchangers, and two more autorollers. All of these but two of the Spychangers (likely due to mold destruction) were released in later lines, notably RID and BWII. Even if we were to include these as G2 expenses, that only brings us up to 38 new molds. That's not that ambitious of a line, particularly when you consider most of the new molds were of smaller toys.

[Cliffjumper]

As far as I know, the larger tail-end RID toys were always RID. The spychangers got rebranded into Universe directly after RID's cancellation as store exclusives. The Kay*Bee Destructicons, Dreadwing were 'pushed' into Universe via 3H's fiction, but they were released as RID.

I meant more that's what might have been confusing you concerning when Crap Universe came out.

Even if we were to include these as G2 expenses, that only brings us up to 38 new molds. That's not that ambitious of a line, particularly when you consider most of the new molds were of smaller toys.

No, but it is 30-odd more than had come out in previous lines of G2.

Also, I've just remembered how hard it was collecting RiD in the shops.

Weirdly, I've got exactly the opposite - RiD was about the last line where I largely relied on brick and mortar high street stores. I think I had to get Railspike and one of the small Combaticons through other channels (plus Scourge and the bikes, though IIRC they just didn't come out over here), in both cases because I'd got a different one in store and they weren't there next time I went in. I do remember both Sky-Byte and the Predacon triple-pack being hard to find, but I didn't want either and didn't kill myself looking.

Armada wasn't too bad either IIRC. Actually, to be fair to Hasbro UK, since then it's either been a case of lines that I just did not like (Energon, Cybertron; one of my lasting regrets is just how much money I pumped into Armada figures, though I did learn my lesson before too much embarrassment, sparing me from trying to claim any of the subsequent lines were any good) or my own impatience - the advent of Asian-based sellers who tend to have figures ahead of UK release often for less than British RRP has meant I rarely go into toy shops expecting to find anything different.

[inflatable dalek]

RID seemed fairly prolific round here as well, friends managed to buy me several toys as 20th Birthday/Christmas 2001 presents with little effort and I remember specifically dear departed TJ Hughes had rows upon rows of the buggers, I was able to get the Trainbots and a couple of the Build Team members (including Wedge!) from there. If the former was supposed to be an Argos exclusive there may have been some American overstock there. Not long after when Tesco opened in town they, for some reason, had buggerloads of Beast Machines leftovers with all sorts of exotic foreign writing on it.

With Power Rangers I think what helped it establish a fanbase quickly and more firmly than other shows of a similar age is that is used footage from shows that already had a cult following in the UK, probably got a lot of older people watching and gritting their teeth through the humour aimed at the young kids in order to see some of the latests Japanese man in a rubber suit action show. It fact the overt camp factor and generally pretty leads resulted in it being pretty much tailor made for students probably helped as well.

[Cliffjumper]

Out of curiousity I went through some reviews from my old site, and apparently over here the Trainbots were a Toymaster exclusive (NB: Toymaster are, IIRC, a distributor who sell to independants and small chains, rather than a chain themselves). Going through by process of elimination there might not have been a TRU exclusive for the line - maybe Scourge and the bikes, I must confess I stopped searching for them once the much-missed Josh Maki got them for me.

Definitely remember the Asian text BM releases, though - Woolworths had loads of the Basics and those stupid vehicle things especially. I half-remember there being very little foreign text, with most of it still English (Hong Kong? Singapore?). Spent ages hunting through them for anything decent, never found it - I'd have loved to have had an army of Tank Drones to back up Tankor (who was around that time 1/3rd of my collection, alongside Slag and the remains of Bug Bite). I think I bought a Mirage, went back a couple of weeks later and the racks were identical to how I'd left them... The Tank Drone's actually a nifty little figure for the size and era.

[inflatable dalek]

Toymaster being a distributor would make sense of them ending up in TJ Hughes, that's pretty much the definition of a small independent retailer.

As far as I recall the BM overstock we got in Kiddy wasn't Asian, but (from the look of the writing) very Eastern European. I don't even think there was any English text on the packaging bar the logo, though I may be misremembering that part as I'm not sure how a big "proper" chain would get away without having the standard health and safety warnings on it. Unless they just slapped an English sticker on there somewhere?

I hadn't seen the show at that time and so didn't recognise any of the characters from what I had seen of BW, I think Tankor was about the only character who'd made it onto TV though. I do remember the couple I picked up being atrocious toys, ugly poorly designed things, with an early sign of poor Hastak quality control as one was in pieces when I got it out the bubble .

[Cliffjumper]

Could've been Eastern European, it was a long time ago... I seem to remember them being in Woolworths, so there must've been some English text, either printed or, as you say, added via a sticker.

I think I picked up most of the Vehicons at the time because at least they looked a bit like Transformers; it was a few months before I got on ebay and those fellers were my only outlet. I'm still quite fond of the larger Tankor, but not enough to keep one on the strength. Weird to think I've probably transformed him, Mirage and Jetstorm ten times as often as I have the beloved elite I still have now.

I keep meaning to count how many Transformers I actually have, I'm pretty sure it'd be under a hundred.

[inflatable dalek]

Sounds like you may have had a marginally better selection to pick from, most of what we had was of the "day glo limbs sort of folded over in a way that might look like a pterodactyl if you squinted and were insane" variety.

Oddly enough they did seem to shift quickly though, they were all gone in a week or so and the better looking ones went very quickly, despite seeing him I never got a Tankor/Tank Drone as he was gone in the day between me spotting the selection and going to buy some. They were only three quid a pop (or less than a Cyberverse figure now), I don't know if that was cheaper than elsewhere.

[Knightdramon]

There's a 99.9 percent chance there's still a Deluxe BW Retrax in the toystore ten metres from my house.

[Cliffjumper]

Mmm, Swansea's TRU had a rack of TM Airrazors for so long I actually bought one out of sympathy... IIRC it was alongside reduced Commemorative Series toys. It was also shite.