They are "somewhat" at the same place, aren't they?:DBlackjack wrote:Did any of you notice that Megatron's last line in ROTF, that 'revaaaunnnrggg' roar as he shoots himself in the face, is reused for his death here... and spoken at one point when Sentinel Prime runs away from Optimus?
I thought about this, and I can't make it work logically. The Autobots have a fantastic track record, having soundly beaten the Decepticons at every turn (yes, it took an AllSpark miracle in Mission City, but only a select few know how close Prime was to defeat). It's reasonable for the humans to expect that the Autobots (with NEST and US military cooperation) would emerge victorious again.Cliffjumper wrote:One odd thing regarding the Autobot ship being destroyed... None of those in NEST HQ show the remotest surprise when the Autobots then turn up in Chicago (only the unofficial gang - Sam, Epps etc.). IIRC the first time they notice them is noting that the Autobots have been captured - there's no "Where the Hell did they come from?". It's loose writing more than anything, but I wonder if you could have some wriggle-room there - were NEST & co (or at least the upper echelons) in on the planned escape?
No, it's not. It's marginally well-written...for Mikaela's character, not Carly's. Even though Megatron's more than a bit touched in the head in DOTM, there's no reason he shouldn't flick Carly off like a bug at any point during their conversation. They've had zero interaction. He and Mikaela, on the other hand, have crossed paths in ROTF, so it's plausible that any comments she'd make towards him might have a bit of gravity. As it is, it's two characters that have never met before having a conversation that suddenly becomes integral to the climax of the plot. It's fantastically forced, and probably left over from the script that was written for Megan Fox and not Random Blonde Whore #475.numbat wrote:I really do love the exchange between Carly and Megatron though - it's so well written and very poignant. One of my favourite scenes from any Transformers movie.
Agreed. 100%.Vin Ghostal wrote:No, it's not. It's marginally well-written...for Mikaela's character, not Carly's.
<snip>
It's fantastically forced, and probably left over from the script that was written for Megan Fox
When does anyone in-universe have any trouble telling robots apart? Because that's the only bit that's relevant. Successive Marvel artists couldn't tell the Throttlebots apart, that doesn't make it a plot-hole if someone in-story calls Freeway by the right name.inflatable dalek wrote:Considering the most common complaint from people who aren't die hard fans is you can't tell the robots apart her working out the Megatron/Sentinel relationship that quickly is fairly remarkable.
But that would mean ignoring all those IDW comics that show the Decepticons doing the same thing!Cliffjumper wrote:Different robots, different abilities. Considering that team of Autobots seem to be on a planet-hopping quest for the Allspark, modifying them for built-in spaceflight is the sensible thing to do - especially as there are only five of them. Might as well wonder why no-one other than Mirage/Skywarp have invisibility/teleportation. It's also possibly Autobot-exclusive tech, which'd be much better than the way both sides always contrived to discover Headmasters/Targetmasters/Powermasters/Pretenders at exactly the same time.
I don't think in-Universe establishes it either way, the trained to deal with Transformers military guys seem good enough at it on the few occasions they're required to call out a name, but Carly is unlikely to have sat down and done the Ladybird Book of How to Tell Big Grey Robots Apart.When does anyone in-universe have any trouble telling robots apart? Because that's the only bit that's relevant. Successive Marvel artists couldn't tell the Throttlebots apart, that doesn't make it a plot-hole if someone in-story calls Freeway by the right name.
So Starscream's capable of it. The original Starscream had a null ray. Cindersaur and Groundhog don't. Transformer A not having exactly the same capabilities as Transformer B is not an error; it never has been in anything else before, so why should it start being one now? If any of those Decepticons on the moon had been shown arriving there by the transforming meteor route, then bingo. But they weren't, were they?inflatable dalek wrote:Though Starscream at least seemed capable of it in ROTF when he went to wherever the Fallen's comfy chair is.
Yeh, Sentinel's just a sea of grey. One's wearing a cloak, one's covered in red. They're also standing on top of a building with no-one else anywhere near them. Add in the telescope and being able to read six-foot lips and basic body language and it all hangs together fairly well. That and there's an obvious lapse in time between Carly being captured by Soundwave and taken to that building, and Dylan loves the sound of his own voice.I don't think in-Universe establishes it either way, the trained to deal with Transformers military guys seem good enough at it on the few occasions they're required to call out a name, but Carly is unlikely to have sat down and done the Ladybird Book of How to Tell Big Grey Robots Apart.
So that's Starscream, all the original Autobots bar Bumblebee and presumably all the Protoforms in ROTF (unless I'm forgetting some other explanation for how they came to Earth from that ship) and a YMMV thing on Megatron and the Fallen's more elaborate spaceship modes and the fact there's no indication of any other way the first film Decepticons came to Earth either. I'd say that's enough of a representative sample to go with it being a standard ability, which makes sense considering their inbuilt alt mode changing abilities, all they really need to do is have the same space vehicle templates downloading.Cliffjumper wrote:So Starscream's capable of it. The original Starscream had a null ray. Cindersaur and Groundhog don't. Transformer A not having exactly the same capabilities as Transformer B is not an error; it never has been in anything else before, so why should it start being one now? If any of those Decepticons on the moon had been shown arriving there by the transforming meteor route, then bingo. But they weren't, were they?
I didn't mean her being able to tell Megatron from Sentinel, more her being able to tell Megatron from any one of the 100 odd big grey Decepticons now on the planet. Though is that actually the first time she's seen Sentinel as well? And sure, maybe Dylan got out his holiday slides during her captivity and maybe she's an expert lip reader but considering that scene between her and Megatron is a fairly essential one for him these things that set up the knowledge she uses to change his mind should have been in the film rather than have it seem to be pulled out their arse. It wouldn't have taken much, and it's not as if there wasn't stuff they could easily have dropped to make way for this Chekov's Gun (such as telling us the Apollo 11 story again within half an hour of a lengthy flashback to it. I still think those two scenes should have been merged).Yeh, Sentinel's just a sea of grey. One's wearing a cloak, one's covered in red. They're also standing on top of a building with no-one else anywhere near them. Add in the telescope and being able to read six-foot lips and basic body language and it all hangs together fairly well. That and there's an obvious lapse in time between Carly being captured by Soundwave and taken to that building, and Dylan loves the sound of his own voice.
How long have they been buried on the moon? How is that a big enough sample? I can name... what... thirty Pretenders. This does not mean all Transformers have Pretender shells. We do not know enough about the abilities of scanning alt modes, we can only infer. For all we know, being able to do it at a drop of a hat is a skill particular to Bumblebee, Skids, Mudflap and Megatron (who has the Allspark there). Indeed, the Twins' scene suggests some sort of preparation might well be necessary - otherwise they'd have scanned something, anything else in Shanghai.So that's Starscream, all the original Autobots bar Bumblebee and presumably all the Protoforms in ROTF (unless I'm forgetting some other explanation for how they came to Earth from that ship) and a YMMV thing on Megatron and the Fallen's more elaborate spaceship modes and the fact there's no indication of any other way the first film Decepticons came to Earth either. I'd say that's enough of a representative sample to go with it being a standard ability, which makes sense considering their inbuilt alt mode changing abilities, all they really need to do is have the same space vehicle templates downloading.
But again, how does she know Megatron wears a cloak now?Cliffjumper wrote:You know I said about how one of them was wearing a cloak? That's Megatron. He's the one wearing a cloak. He's either going to be Megatron or one of Violenjiger's Destron Generals, and I'm fairly sure they weren't in Chicago to cause confusion.
Yep, I've thought that's a flaw with the idea since it was introduced in... was it RID? It saves on story time but never gets used in anything like a logical way. I'd have also thought the ease with which most Transformers we've seen do it take on new alt modes in the films suggests they could do it again any time they like (if, say, Jazz can become a Porsche so casually why not something else half an hour later? There are theoretical ways this could be handwaved, but considering it's such a potentially useful power it's something the films themselves should have addressed directly).There are far, far too many instances in the films where instant alt mode switching would be deployed - Demolishor and Sideways once their cover's blown, Team Sam when on the run, the Autobots when under aerial attack in Chicago, the Autobots when surrounded by military hardware in Egypt, Barricade when he's easily identified by Sam outside Mission City and so on and so forth - to suggest it's universally easy; Bumblebee's change is the freak occurence, not everything else.
![[The Transformers Archive - an international fan site]](/common/skin/cardbackwide/tfarchive.png)
