Blu Formers.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:44 pm

Yeah, I was going for a pun on Bayformers with the thread title, doesn't really work but moving swiftly on...

As I now have all three Transformers films on Blu Ray I thought it was time for a proper rewatch of the first two as it's been a while since I've done more than edited highlights from either of them. I suspect Revenge of the Fallen is going to seem really odd when I watch it later as I've conditioned myself into thinking it's just the forest fight for two hours on a loop. It also nicely fits into me ending my rewatch of the cartoons (well, the ones I have on DVD, no Unicron Trilogy or Animated for me. RID is good fun episode by episode, but watching the whole series in a month was really unkind to it, bright and cheerful but a bit to much like having a 1000 blue Smarties shoved down your throat by the end).

I was actually surprised by how much I enjoyed the first one, if anything even more than at the time. A lot of the little niggles don't bother me so much (or the ones that do- like the chronic wasting of Hugo Weaving in a fairly thankless role- have been made worse by the sequels) and in comparison to the generally darker tone of the other two it's a lot more fun. The Autobots mucking about outside the house is a lot more gentle and relaxed that the comic relief from the Twins or Wheelie and Brains. Absolutely loved Prime's constant exasperation with Ironhide over his desire to kill everything as well, shame that never really got a chance to be played in the others. The whole boy and his car thing makes the film feel a lot more relatable as well, it's easy to see why there's a lot of people who enjoyed this one but couldn't get into the sequel plots so easily.

It also solidified for me that the third film really did miss Megan Fox, a more more fiesty likeable and proactive character than her replacement, I suspect that's a sign of how much the forth will miss Shia as well. Niether is the Greatest Actor Ever (though I don't think either one deserves the hate they get off some people) but both were exactly right for those parts.

Speaking of actors, Josh Duhamel is really good isn't he? Yet another thankless role, his entire purpose mostly seems to be to give the camera something to point at when Sam and Mikaela aren't doing anything interesting, and his one bit of character development in all three films is the brief scene talking to his wife and daughter in the first, easily the least of all the humans to last the entire series (even Epps got his whole resignation thing). But he's always likeable and engaging despite some very butch lines ("bring the rain" indeed).

And annoyingly Morshower is specifically called by his character's name in dialogue, meaning my previous plan of just ignoring the credits and assuming he was playing his namesake from the other two has had to go out the window. Unless I develop some sort of deep undercover backstory that also explains his improbable survival. I bet I could sell it to IDW.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:33 pm

I think the first one is the better film, but prefer Dark of the Moon, if you follow. The first one gets all the boring crap out of the way in a pretty decent fashion. And while it's very in to bash Fox and/or Michaela, she fits the role like a glove, and Michaela's not a bad character for a human lead's girlfriend in an action film.

I love how cocksure the first one is too. It's like the Bumbleebee/Barricade fight - we've been waiting for 45 minutes or whatever to see robots hitting each other and Bay uses it as background noise for Sam & Mik v Frenzy because he knows the highway and Mission City are really going to deliver. There's a real faith in what they're doing.

The hacker subplot is the only bit that drags a bit - I think it'd feel less stupid if Maggie, Glen or Keller were in any of the other films, and I do think how much screen-time it gets is exaggerated and used as a stick to beat the thing with - but it's still basically nonsensical padding, even more so with the silly diversion to pick up Glen. But then I'm guessing they were all at some point there with an eye to a sequel and just got dropped (or in Voight's case were busy) and didn't really need replacing... Leo's got to be a rewrite of Glen (vaguely stupid comic relief conspiracy geek with a habit of flapping and whining the second he actually gets involved in the stuff he wants to be involved in).

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:53 pm

Cliffjumper wrote: The hacker subplot is the only bit that drags a bit - I think it'd feel less stupid if Maggie, Glen or Keller were in any of the other films, and I do think how much screen-time it gets is exaggerated and used as a stick to beat the thing with - but it's still basically nonsensical padding, even more so with the silly diversion to pick up Glen. But then I'm guessing they were all at some point there with an eye to a sequel and just got dropped (or in Voight's case were busy) and didn't really need replacing... Leo's got to be a rewrite of Glen (vaguely stupid comic relief conspiracy geek with a habit of flapping and whining the second he actually gets involved in the stuff he wants to be involved in).

it says a lot I totally forgot to mention it. I've never understood the complaint Glen or Bolivia were somehow "Racist" when the films also full of comedy white people and Epps being fairly cool (though those complaints seemed to drop off once the Twins came along to claim everyone's ire), but he's not very funny- at least not in relation to the screentime he gets- and nothing they do really contributes anything. The Government already know about "Ice Man" and sending the whole morse code thing feels like a case of "Oh crap, we've run out of things to do with these people, give them a subplot!". Despite Frenzy and some of Voight's delivery being hilarious.

The woman playing Maggie did a very public walk away didn't she? Though I've no idea if they ever actually planned to bring the character back.

I did enjoy Dark of the Moon a lot, and think overall it's a better movie than Revenge of the Fallen, but equally there was nothing that really wowed me like the forest fight or the Autobots first arrival. Now, of course that's going to be down to diminishing returns, however well done we're used enough to robots fighting to not find it as awe-striking as it was first time round. It's hard to see what they could do about that in future, or even if they need to as the action scenes in the third are all perfectly good in their own right and every new movie is going to be the first for a large part of the target audience.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:05 pm

I dunno, I think both of Optimus' "right, I'm well fed up of this, let's kill something!" moments are pretty epic... I think, though, DotM's problem is that the Chicago battle is an excellent hour-ish battle scene for the most part and it's a lot harder to identify particular stand-outs, where the first two are a lot more... segmented. DotM's arguably the most coherent as a film.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:19 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:I dunno, I think both of Optimus' "right, I'm well fed up of this, let's kill something!" moments are pretty epic... I think, though, DotM's problem is that the Chicago battle is an excellent hour-ish battle scene for the most part and it's a lot harder to identify particular stand-outs, where the first two are a lot more... segmented. DotM's arguably the most coherent as a film.

I think if I were an 8 year old completely caught up in the film who'd genuinely thought the Autobots were all dead Prime's return would indeed be awesome, but for me it just felt like him showing up at the exact moment you'd expect him too. "We will kill them all" came across as trying a bit too hard to recapture the bad assery of "I'll take you all on!" as well (YMMV), and seemed a bit silly in retrospect when he spent most of the subsequent fight either looking for his trailer or hanging upside down from a crane whilst he troops somehow got captured despite being fully armed and the Decpeticons had to have the fact they're the villains explained to them by Dillon.

In fairness, I do love the collasping building stuff (best not to think of why no one seems to get so much as a scratch from all that broken glass), and Starscream's final inglorious stand is actually something I enjoyed a lot more than the "Big" action stuff, mainly because it is so unashamedly silly.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:13 pm

I was thinking more of the insane charge through the Decepticons, ending in using Shockwave's corpse to knock Sentinel off the tower, and the "I'M COMING FOR YOU!!!!" bit. Great moments in pretty much anything Transformers tend to be whenever Optimus just loses his temper and takes out the bad guys - TF:TM, Crisis of Command, Prime Target, that episode of Prime where he just pulls a bit off Knock-Out, Prey, Dark Awakening (Hot Rod's kind-of the bad guy in that it is fun watching him getting beaten up)...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:09 pm

I do love Movie Prime, even if I think the third film does have slightly mixed messages on his behaviour, I generally agree with killing Megatron (though I'd have rather the character had gone done fighting a bit more, it's almost so casual it's as if the assumption is he will be back for the next one) but having it come so close to a scene where killing defeated enemies is presented as pure crossing a line EVIL is a bit odd at best.

ROTF was mostly very enjoyable, but completely scatterbrained. Knowing the bits to tune out of slightly probably helped it. And yes, the shorts scene is nice. Though I prefer the jiggly boobies near the end as that's at least happening for plot related reasons rather than just pure perving.

And, err, she's still a strong proactive character of course. That's why I like her. The boobies are just a bonus.

And Deep Bloody Roy!

How the hell did Galloway get what's basically a diplomatic job? Even if he hates the Autobots effectively calling the giant robot death machines dicks to their faces repeatedly is a really, really stupid thing to do by any standards. His whole "Get them off Earth" thing was pretty much recycled into the third film as well, but done slightly better.

Vin Ghostal · Post by **Vin Ghostal** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:47 pm

ROTF is easily the weakest of the three, mostly because it felt like an eight year old on speed wrote in 70 hours straight, Stallone/Rocky style. There are so many subplots and random diversions and wasted characters...augh, I'm getting upset just thinking about it.

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:40 pm

I love love love the fact that the films became a vehicle for Prime. It could so easily have been the Bumblebee and Sam show all the way; Bumblebee being both cute and tough at the same time, and he could've walked away with it like Wolverine in the X-Men films.

Instead Optimus becomes the main robot character, even though he's much more serious and perhaps far less likeable than Bumblebee... he has such an incredible presence helped (equally I'd say) by Peter Cullen's voice and the way they give him such... presence on screen. He totally owns the shot whenever he's in it and that's exactly what I want from my big **** off superhero mother****ing Transformer boss.

Michael Bay absolutely nails what makes Optimus Prime, Prime... a big robotic John Wayne, just like in 'Arrival from Cybertron'. Absolutely ace. I'm so happy three films got made, and they even manage to poke fun at themselves! I would've hated these things if they were unrelentingly serious.

Vin Ghostal · Post by **Vin Ghostal** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:20 pm

Auntie Slag wrote:I love love love the fact that the films became a vehicle for Prime. It could so easily have been the Bumblebee and Sam show all the way; Bumblebee being both cute and tough at the same time, and he could've walked away with it like Wolverine in the X-Men films.

Instead Optimus becomes the main robot character, even though he's much more serious and perhaps far less likeable than Bumblebee... he has such an incredible presence helped (equally I'd say) by Peter Cullen's voice and the way they give him such... presence on screen. He totally owns the shot whenever he's in it and that's exactly what I want from my big **** off superhero mother****ing Transformer boss.

Michael Bay absolutely nails what makes Optimus Prime, Prime... a big robotic John Wayne, just like in 'Arrival from Cybertron'. Absolutely ace. I'm so happy three films got made, and they even manage to poke fun at themselves! I would've hated these things if they were unrelentingly serious.

Agree 100%. I would probably feel differently if I were a kid, but I thought the portrayal of Prime was absolutely perfect. There's a moment in Prime that captures the essence of this: Raf asks Prime if he'd like to see something funny, and Prime just says "no" and continues looking at the viewscreen. There are plenty of "funny" Autobots - this is war, and your leader should probably be (almost) all business.

Red Dave Prime · Post by **Red Dave Prime** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:55 pm

So no-one thought that prime comes across as a bit of a joke during the house scene in the first film (I dont mind the scene, just the fact that Prime is as much a clueless idiot as the rest of the autobots)

Or how in DOTM he hangs dangling from threads for ages? I actually thought that was meant to be a joke like the bit in Big trouble in little china where Jack Burton gets caught under the heavy armoured gaurd.

Or that bit where he discovers that the humans knew of the ark and instead of acting like a leader and confronting them he sits in his alt mode and pouts?

Sorry, maybe its my overall dislike of the trilogy but I dont think prime comes across as a consistent character. He has the voice of an old man but the temperament of a teenager. He swings from protecting life to slaughtering decepticons by decapitation without any remorse.

He does get some great action scenes though and for that I must give Bay some credit.

As for the films, well I've made my opinion of DOTM pretty clear in the thread, ROTF is a mess of ideas and the first one has a cracking opening and while a bit muddled in parts is a much better film (transformers or not) than the other 2.