unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

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unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:42 am

When selling, how important is it, in terms of value of the figure, to have the catalog brochures, promo posters and mail away order forms such as the attached?

How much does an unopened unicron Armada go for?

I have a practically brand new reflector (stickers haven't been applied, complete, one missile was detached but still inside). I've seen them on eBay for $600 in worse condition than what I have. What do they normally fetch?

Any suggestions on buyers to stay away from?

Ty

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:49 am

For common and current stuff, ebay will actually list what the item is trending at, which is helpful.

For older and less common stuff, one of the best tools we have to figure out what a figure trades for is the "sold listings" option on ebay searches. After you've entered your search query, go to the results filter (which is on the left hand side in the desktop version and in a drop down menu on mobile) and select the option to only show listings that have completed and people have paid actual money for. Usually, it'll be little less than what the Buy-It-Now prices are from hopeful sellers.

For instance, here are the search results for "Armada Unicron boxed": https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... da+unicron

Which gives you listings for auctions and Buy-It-Now options. But you can filter the results to show completed listings and get this: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... Complete=1

Which shows what people have recently paid for boxed Armada Unicrons (and apparently one person that bought the box only for $20?).

Granted, all of that is just using one website which you may or may not want to actually use to sell your stuff, but it's a great informational tool even if you just want to sell stuff at local conventions in person or something.

As for having all the paperwork and stuff... I dunno. Just depends on what the figure is and who's buying it, I guess. Instruction sheets are welcome, I suppose. But if it's just superfluous stuff like paper catalogs and it's already gone, don't worry about it.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:20 pm

Most helpful! thank you

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:33 pm

Welcome. Good luck selling your stuff!

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Denyer » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:29 pm

Actual sale prices on eBay are absolutely the way to go. Everything else is just speculation, unless you know local dealers who are honest (i.e. buy in at a fixed percentage of average eBay actual sale prices).

With Armada Unicron, last time I looked the most desirable versions of the mould (apart from a few collectors after the limited green version) are generally the G1 colours ones, but I still got mine relatively cheap. To a certain extent it depends who's buying at the time and how patient you want to be.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:45 pm

You mean this G1 version, or armada? I don't recall one coming out after the 86 movie.

https://static.seibertron.com/images/to ... ron020.jpg

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Denyer » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:55 pm

No, not the ancient prototype (I forget whether that was v1 or v2, there's one with small satellites as well, which IIRC was in one of the Generations photo books, probably the deluxe edition of the book) or the Neo-Unicron one, there've been multiple G1 style repaints of the Armada one.

Amazon variant -- https://www.tfu.info/2011/Decepticon/Un ... nicron.htm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-Transfo ... B004ZKT4KI

Japanese "2010" variant (more cartoon like colours) -- https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ron/20036/

It's the Amazon anniversary one I've got. The "2010" one tends to go for silly money boxed.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:46 pm

Thank you. When did the anniversary one come out?

I assume the 2003 Armada edition I have is not as sought after as the 25th Anniversary Limited Edition?

here is what I have
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh5tzyii7ydya ... 4.jpg?dl=0

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:29 am

I had to look it up, but the anniversary version came out around 2010/2011. It's more orange and has a different head sculpt.

As for whether it's more sought after, I wouldn't necessarily assume that. Given that it's boxed, it's likely to be more appealing to a younger collector that was a kid when Armada was out than the 2010 version (which was reworked to resemble the 1986 version for older fans). The sold ebay listings for sealed Armada Unicrons seem to range from about $100 to $150 generally, so it's certainly appreciated in value from time of release.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:59 am

Makes sense at the anniversary edition would be marketed towards the old geezers

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Denyer » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:23 pm

Clay wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:29 am
As for whether it's more sought after, I wouldn't necessarily assume that.
If you were the target age in 2003, you might not have major financial commitments but also are less likely to be in the income bracket that 80s kids tend to be. Once collectors of a particular fandom start dropping off in numbers and collections get broken up, there's a period of re-adjustment but it's the stuff at the beginning of a franchise that stays popular (eg original Star Wars toys).

10-20 years is enough for boxed/carded examples of name recognition characters to get sufficiently thin on the ground to boost the price, but most of the grading and inflation activity is of things that have survived longer and are down to few remaining examples.

I'm going to guess from https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... =1&_sop=16 that a boxed example with some box damage is likely to peak at 150 US, but it really does depend on who's looking at the time.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:08 pm

There's also the hair to split about the Armada version being a general retail item aimed at kids at the time, and the 2010 version being an online exclusive aimed more towards adult collectors. Difference being that the people that would largely prefer the G1-ified version probably already have it (either at release or in the years following), where someone that was, say, four years old in 2003 would be 22 now and is likely to only have been collecting things from online listings for a few years.

Even if the 2010 version trades for more, the demand for the Armada version is probably broader, if that makes any sense.
Once collectors of a particular fandom start dropping off in numbers and collections get broken up, there's a period of re-adjustment but it's tthe stuff at the beginning of a franchise that stays popular (eg original Star Wars toys).
Is it though? I can't imagine there's much crossover between collectors of the 12" GIJoes and the 3.75" versions. In the case of transformers, if we're being brutally honest, most of the 1980s figures would barely pass as prototype mock ups for what they're capable of making now. There's also the constant resetting and discontinuity of series which prevents G1 from being an automatic and inevitable destination in the same way all the ancillary Star Wars stuff points you back to the 1977 film.

I mean, as time marches on, original or vintage stuff will increase in secondary market value by virtue of there being continually less of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the lifeblood of a property. In the case of Transformers, Star Wars, or whatever, they keep making new stuff because there's contemporary interest in it, not because people born in 1999 suddenly want an original 1987 Apeface and have to put up with the new one as a placeholder.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:53 pm

Thank you Denyer and Clay.

Speaking of the 12-inch GI Joe (with pull string to talk), I did have one as a kid as well as the comic book and accompanying 7-in record. Who knows what happened to it but would have been nice to still have it.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Denyer » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:31 pm

Gut feel is that fewer early-twenty-somethings are at uni discovering that they want mint versions of the toys they had as kids, whereas twenty years ago fast internet as a concept and eBay were caught up in that. Not sure how many early-twenty-somethings had the same experience with action figures in general either -- maybe it's a self-limiting survey being on social media with other crotchety old folk, but there doesn't seem to be as much interest online for Armada/Energon/Cybertron. Possibly because the TV shows weren't particularly memorable, more competition with other shows, etc. Maybe more fans will come out of the woodwork in their 30s

12" Joes didn't get the gloves-off media advertising that 80s lines got with Regan -- in that sense 80s Joes are a beginning and the 12" figures are a completely different toyline without the benefit of specific characterisation.

Apeface, G2 Laser Rod Optimus, Animated Prime, etc aren't going to rise to the heights of an original Prime in packaging despite it having being reissued continually. It's not even a particularly good toy. But one's associated very strongly with Transformers and the beginning of Transformers. When people want representative curios, it's consistently a destination and far more people will be after one, with prices to match. Lots more people will settle for a reissue, or a new representation of it (RED, MP, Kingdom or whatever). 2000s era RID Prime, Armada Prime, etc don't really get a look in except from a small subset of collectors for whom it was either their generation or (even smaller subset) adults still into TFs, like despite new Star Wars films it consistently goes back to Vader etc. and MOTU Origins seems to be doing better than 200x.

None of this is to decry trying to do new stuff. It just doesn't often stick and franchises end up competing with their own greatest hits reel, something shareholders entirely don't care about as long as the brands themselves stays big.

IFTTT wrote:Speaking of the 12-inch GI Joe (with pull string to talk), I did have one as a kid as well as the comic book and accompanying 7-in record. Who knows what happened to it but would have been nice to still have it.

Might find some examples at meets and shows (or subject specific FB groups) that are a bit more wallet-friendly than eBay.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 pm

Denyer wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:31 pm
maybe it's a self-limiting survey being on social media with other crotchety old folk, but there doesn't seem to be as much interest online for Armada/Energon/Cybertron. Possibly because the TV shows weren't particularly memorable, more competition with other shows, etc. Maybe more fans will come out of the woodwork in their 30s
Not memorable to you or me, but those series absolutely pulled their weight with kids at the time. I can definitely say that, if I had stuck to only the same places I've been checking in at for the past 15 or 20 years, my impression would probably be pessimistic too. But it's really not the case from what I've seen from observing over the past year or so social media groups that skew younger. It's quite heartening, honestly.

Apeface, G2 Laser Rod Optimus, Animated Prime, etc aren't going to rise to the heights of an original Prime in packaging despite it having being reissued continually. It's not even a particularly good toy. But one's associated very strongly with Transformers and the beginning of Transformers. When people want representative curios, it's consistently a destination and far more people will be after one, with prices to match.
That's assuming that people want a curio or relic version of, say, Prime instead of a fancy new one like they put out in Earthrise. And that's also taking it as a given that the same audience would want either one (vintage or modern) for the same reason (possessing for the vintage or historical appeal). I'm not sure that's the case.

Again, those subsequent series (BW, unicron trilogy, animated, etc.) all did their job and created a bunch of new fans with different entry points and 'default series'. Case in point, there's a bunch of Cybertron figures from 15 years ago that are slowly getting pricey as the people that were kids then are now young adults and are going back and buying either what they never had or what they need to replace/repair. The cybertron Optimus Prime, if complete, goes for between $100 and $150 now, and it's not people our age that are driving that since, if we have one, we likely bought it when it came out.

I suppose another variable to consider is the consistency of a character design. Prime changes from line to line with a few hallmark features that are ever present, but Darth Vader looks the same no matter the iteration. So with tf stuff, the retro appeals are more splayed out than they would be compared to other more consistent IPs.
None of this is to decry trying to do new stuff. It just doesn't often stick and franchises end up competing with their own greatest hits reel, something shareholders entirely don't care about as long as the brands themselves stays big.
Most of these big franchises do tend to become an ouroboros over time, but that doesn't mean the only people interested in them jumped on when they were still regular serpents that hadn't started consuming themselves. Like, Armada went back to Prime being a tractor-trailer, Starscream being a jet, and whatever else was recycled from G1, but that doesn't mean the only point of engagement was for people that remembered the old cartoon enjoying the callbacks. For lots of younger fans, that's the starting point of the merry-go-round.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Warcry » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:21 am

Clay wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:08 pm
There's also the hair to split about the Armada version being a general retail item aimed at kids at the time, and the 2010 version being an online exclusive aimed more towards adult collectors.
I'm pretty sure the 2010 one was only Amazon-exclusive in the States, though. I bought mine off the shelf at a Toys'R'Us and unless my memory fails me it was stocked for nearly as long as the Armada or Energon ones were, and eventually ended up on clearance. I'd imagine a lot wound up with kids up here.
Clay wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 pm
Not memorable to you or me, but those series absolutely pulled their weight with kids at the time. I can definitely say that, if I had stuck to only the same places I've been checking in at for the past 15 or 20 years, my impression would probably be pessimistic too. But it's really not the case from what I've seen from observing over the past year or so social media groups that skew younger. It's quite heartening, honestly.
I also think it's important to keep our expectations for UT nostalgia in line with how popular the UT was in its day. It was a solid success but it was never a blow the doors off smash hit like G1 or the first couple movies. It wasn't G1 or G.I. Joe or TMNT to the kids who grew up with it, but more like... maybe Thundercats? A solid proportion of the kids that loved it in 2002 to 2007 will still love it as adults. But that's probably going to be a much smaller number than people our age who stil love Transformers because the starting point was also smaller.

Hasbro is also doing a lot less to engage those kids than they were doing to engage 80s kids in the early 2000s. Where are their Armada and Energon reissues? I guess it's just easier to milk the existing audience while perpetually raising prices.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Clay » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:27 pm

Warcry wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:21 am
I'm pretty sure the 2010 one was only Amazon-exclusive in the States, though. I bought mine off the shelf at a Toys'R'Us and unless my memory fails me it was stocked for nearly as long as the Armada or Energon ones were, and eventually ended up on clearance. I'd imagine a lot wound up with kids up here.
I didn't know that! That's neat. But I would still weight the Armada one more heavily as it basically had the back 50% of the Armada cartoon pushing it.

As an aside, I never saw the Energon repaint of Unicron here. Were they plentiful in Canada? I remember the Energon repaint of Overload as Ultra Magnus being basically non-existent in the US while completely swamping the UK, so I wonder if it was a similar distribution snafu.
I also think it's important to keep our expectations for UT nostalgia in line with how popular the UT was in its day. It was a solid success but it was never a blow the doors off smash hit like G1 or the first couple movies. It wasn't G1 or G.I. Joe or TMNT to the kids who grew up with it, but more like... maybe Thundercats? A solid proportion of the kids that loved it in 2002 to 2007 will still love it as adults. But that's probably going to be a much smaller number than people our age who stil love Transformers because the starting point was also smaller.
Hmm. I don't think I meant to intimate that the UT stuff had the same kind of broad cultural recognition as the initial series, but just that it and all the other subsequent iterations had done their job of creating new fans that'll have different defaults. It's like... well, I may be grossly misconstruing what you and Denyer are saying, but it's like what you guys are talking about is the general conception of what transformers are among the general public and people with a more casual fondness, whereas I'm talking about newer generations of fans that will actually spend money on toys and read forums/social media and watch Hasbro convention reveals, which is a very different group of people.

Like, I get what you're saying about the shrinking slice of the nerd pie transformers has as more of this geeky stuff gets normalized, but I'm talking more about how the successive waves of new and younger adult fans will be pretty steady for a long time. Even if no particular group is as big as that first tsunami from the 1980s, the collective numbers are significant even if their interests within the brand are much more diverse because of the increased rate of hitting the series reset button.

If that makes sense? I don't know if that makes sense.
Hasbro is also doing a lot less to engage those kids than they were doing to engage 80s kids in the early 2000s. Where are their Armada and Energon reissues? I guess it's just easier to milk the existing audience while perpetually raising prices.
I dunno... Classics didn't come around until 2006, and wasn't really capitalized on as a concept until 2008-9, which was a full 25 years after the first wave. Beast Wars came out in 1996, which was... 25 years ago, and now seems to be leading focus of the current line. Give it a few more years and we may see that new Armada Prime released yet.

(but yes, they keep raising prices. Are the Kingdom wave three deluxes supposed to be $22.99 MSRP? This is getting ridiculous)

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Denyer » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:01 pm

Clay wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:27 pm
As an aside, I never saw the Energon repaint of Unicron here. Were they plentiful in Canada? I remember the Energon repaint of Overload as Ultra Magnus being basically non-existent in the US while completely swamping the UK
Loads shelf-warming here, most of them next to the Armada one that was still around. TRU in particular didn't usually clearance things even if it got tatty.

Can't clearly remember how/if the UT cartoons got shown over here (odd slots and broken up, IIRC) -- the Armada and Energon toys got widely stocked, but I think Cybertron had gone off the boil a bit. Menasor shelf-warmed too.

I'm curious how well Kingdom will do, and more specifically what the distribution of sales between the vehicles and animals will be. I don't think there's much BW/BM nostalgia out there from people who had it as a first series, but that doesn't mean it won't reach some new fans. At conventions you tend to see 20-something fans with current toys and the UT stuff is with kids to keep them quiet because it's cheap and chunky. Whereas movie stuff tends to be more shapeless, drab and complex.

Kingdom deluxes seem to have held in price here, but the pound is quite strong against the dollar.
assuming that people want a curio or relic version of, say, Prime instead of a fancy new one like they put out in Earthrise
The point's more that that version of the character sells and holds value, whilst UT/RID/Animated/RID2/etc has a much smaller market.

I can only assume that's supported by what Hasbro will be doing with focus groups. If there was an audience anticipated you'd see more from those lines brought back.
it's not people our age that are driving {Cybertron Optimus Prime sales}
I'm not so sure about that, and would guess that most of the purchasers have a lot of other Optimuses to the point that they've moved onto other lines.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by Skyquake87 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:51 pm

I find it funny that the Armada toy was retooled to look more like the character from the '86 Movie...when he already looked like that anyway. At least to my eyes. All the character traits are there, anyway. Beard, horns, massive wings, right colours.

I remember Armada Unicron tanked over here - he ended up in Home Bargains piled up for £25 a throw at the time. Bought my nephew one as I he loved Armada and I think he was a bit nonplussed by it. It's not the most exciting Transformer, turning into a shape. I'm pretty sure Hasbro had an eye on selling it to older fans, given the colour choices and that.

Personally, I love the Energon version I own now. I could give two sh*ts about it looking exactly like it did in the old film, it just looks properly f**king evil in that black and orange marmalade, with green snot smeared all over him. Fantastic. Goes well with my Blue and Orange TLK Cybertron/Primus toy too!

I do wonder if there will be much in the way of nostalgia for Armada/Energon/Cybertron. My nephew discarded toys pretty quickly after he got a console and it's been gaming all the way since. Heck, it might even have been like that for me, but I grew up in an age where games took about 20 minutes to load on a tape and I'd be more involved reading comics whilst my Amstrad 464 was screeching and whining away. Time the game had loaded, I didn't feel like like playing or my interest had waned! Seeing younger fans at TFNation, the enthusiasm for Transformers seems to have come much more from a media/creative angle than the toys themselves (although they do still play some part). From what I've observed, at least.

As for Kingdom, well, it's been the beasts that have got my interest, but there's still seems to be way more interest in the familiar G1 characters (at least glancing around the few YT channels I follow/ pop up in my feed) - not helped by Hasbro's odd decision to bring out a Studio Series sub-line focused around the animated movie... and then release half of it within Kingdom, which seems like a bit of bet-hedging/ lack of confidence that Beast Wars would be enough to support the line on its own. For me, the Beast Wars characters have definitely come off better than many of the G1 retreads, and they're the only ones (apart from Cyclonus) I've bought from the line.

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Re: unicron Armada, reflector and catalog brochures, promo posters

Post by IFTTT » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:35 am

Clay wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:41 pm
Hasbro is also doing a lot less to engage those kids than they were doing to engage 80s kids in the early 2000s. Where are their Armada and Energon reissues? I guess it's just easier to milk the existing audience while perpetually raising prices.
Well... There's also an exponential increase in competition for kids' attention these days, and not just with toys as we all know, whereas those 80s commercials worked just fine on us. 😜

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