Sheba's Combo Left Side Thread

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:08 am

Ladies and Gentlemen, from Today's Washington Times:
EDITORIAL • December 18, 2002

The richest 1 percent

So much for Republicans being the party of the wealthy. According to a new study by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, that moniker more appropriately belongs to the Democrats.
"Republicans raised more than Democrats from individuals who contributed small and medium amounts of money during the 2002 election cycle," the report notes, "but Democrats far outpaced Republicans among deep-pocketed givers." Among donors who gave more than $200 but less than $1,000, Republicans enjoyed a substantial $68 million to $44 million edge over Democrats. The margin was closer among those individuals who gave $1,000 or more: The GOP took in $317 million, compared to the Democrats' $307 million.
But among the fabulously wealthy, the Democrats cleaned house. Donors of $10,000 or more gave $140 million to Democrats, while only $111 million went to Republicans. Among those individuals who gave $100,000 or more, the Democrats raised $72 million compared to the Republicans' $34 million. And when it comes to the millionaires' club — those kicking in $1 million or more — the Democratic Party skunked the GOP, $36 million to $3 million. Needless to say, despite the near-parity in overall amounts — $384 million to the Republicans vs. $350 million to the Democrats — the number of individual donors to the GOP exceeded those to the Democratic Party by more than 40 percent.
In other words, in 2002 a select group of bigwigs dumped big money into Democratic causes, while a broad base of folks donated respectable (but not overwhelming) amounts to Republican candidates. That goes a long way toward explaining the Democrats' shallow support in the midterm elections, and should give an indication of which party's agenda has been hijacked by the big money-men.
But it also sheds light on the president's first round of tax cuts — arguably the highest-profile domestic referendum in the midterm elections. We can't help but notice that only those who are so stinking rich that money doesn't matter supported the Democrats' opposition to tax cuts. Meanwhile, the many more who form the backbone of America's economy supported the Republicans. As the White House and congressional Republicans prepare a new tax package, we hope they bear that in mind. And just to show that there are no hard feelings, we'll still support tax cuts for the limousine liberals. With all that extra change in their pockets, maybe they'll put it to more productive uses than propping up the rejected policies of the Democratic Party.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:13 am

<yawn>

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:15 am

"Another Liberal myth shot to hell"

And then you talk about Democrats.

Lemme ask, Are Democrats liberal? Is being a liberal = to being a democrat?

The answer is no...

-Predaking- · Post by **-Predaking-** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:19 am

Talk about myth.. Consider the source she cited is Washington Times, one of the most conservative papers out there. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:24 am

Originally posted by Strafe
"Another Liberal myth shot to hell"

And then you talk about Democrats.

Lemme ask, Are Democrats liberal? Is being a liberal = to being a democrat?

The answer is no...

Dude it doesn't matter. Not just Democrats think that about Republicans. Green party people and socialists do too.

But people donating to the Democratic party know exactly why they're doing it. It's for LIBERAL cause advancement. They're not doing it for tax cuts or less government or whatever.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:28 am

When you don't even understand that liberal and conservative DO NOT equal Democrat or Republican respectively, then you're quite a source for talking about myths...

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:31 am

Originally posted by Sheba
But people donating to the Democratic party know exactly why they're doing it. It's for LIBERAL cause advancement.

LOL

The average democrat is no more liberal than your common non-evolved monkey ancestor. Yes there are liberal democrats, but the Democratic party is so centrist now it's ridiculous...Many people donate to both parties that way they get influence no matter who wins. People donate to get influence for their agenda...

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:40 am

Originally posted by Strafe
LOL

The average democrat is no more liberal than your common non-evolved monkey ancestor. Yes there are liberal democrats, but the Democratic party is so centrist now it's ridiculous...Many people donate to both parties that way they get influence no matter who wins. People donate to get influence for their agenda...

Well it is true that people donate to get influence--and in some cases it's been known to happen that some donate to BOTH parties. Then it becomes more of a "protection racket."

Centrist eh. Isn't that a euphemism for "liberal"?! Give me some centrist ideas man.

But your theory STILL doesn't explain WHY the Democrats get so much of the Super Rich donations. Considering all the left wing nutballs in Hollywood, your argument rings rather hollow...

Sheba · Post by **Sheba** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:44 am

Originally posted by Sir Auros
When you don't even understand that liberal and conservative DO NOT equal Democrat or Republican respectively, then you're quite a source for talking about myths...

I agree that not all Democrats are liberal, and not all Republicans are conservative.

However, the basic image of each party is clear enough--the lefties are in charge in Democrat land and the conservatives run the show in the Republican party. Under the party banner itself, that is what it's all about.

People understand. Democrat = more, higher taxes, more big government, liberal view of social issues.

Republican = lower taxes, less government, conservative view of social issues.

However Republicans are in a spot since the American Public are so accustomed to entitlements that they have a heck of a time selling the 'less government' issue. So they are obliged to spend at least as much as their Democrat opponents.

Fat Dragon · Post by **Fat Dragon** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:45 am

" Democrat = more, higher taxes, more big government, liberal view of social issues.

Republican = lower taxes, less government, conservative view of social issues."

That is a very naive statement Sheba

being a conservative myself...i believe in the integrity of the people more than anything

but i do listen to most of the opposing viewpoints and acknowledge their positives and attempt to sort out their negaitves

the issues between the left and the right are far more complicated than taxes, amount of government, and views of social issues.

sometimes a progreesive view of social issues is needed to improve our standard of living

sometimes a conservative view of the issues is needed to maintain sanity in our otherwise insane federal system

i believe in compromise rather than dispute

but there are values i want to keep, and sometimes the liberals go too far in a lot things but sometimes they know what they are talking about

less government as reagan quoted is a good thing

but sometimes it is necessary

Flamemaster Galvatron · Sat Feb 15, 2003 10:29 am

I think you're too obsessed with trying to prove "the evil democrats" wrong..let it go Sheba..no one really cares. The majority of this board thinks it's funny when you try to one up them on something...and in the end you look like you're grasping at straws to continue a neverending argument (while avoiding peoples good points about something else like say an argument about religion back to "well THE DEMOCRATS SAID THIS ABOUT "CRAZY RIGHT WING" REPUBLICANS, THEY'RE THE IDIOTS!" a bit farfetched, but the following was not far from the truth)

Ravage · Post by **Ravage** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:16 pm

I just had a chant come to mind....

Computron · Post by **Computron** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 4:47 pm

wanders in, reads post, contemplates replying to get point across, decides to take up brain surgery as its a hell of a lot easier, wanders out

The Green Knight · Post by **The Green Knight** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:19 pm

I don't know of any middle-class people who wanted to back the $76 tax-cut...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:36 pm

Sheba, I believe either you or your source is lying.

The Green Knight · Post by **The Green Knight** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:30 pm

Originally posted by Quicksilver
Sheba, I believe either you or your source is lying.

Now Quick, you know that only Sheba's opponents do that, almost always after she can't respond any further to what they've said, because, you know, if they were telling the truth, then they would win the debate...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 6:43 pm

Oh yeh, silly ol' me... Thinking Sheba works logically... I mean, d'oh.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:56 am

THAT IS IT I'M PUTTING SHEBA ON MY INGORE LIST AND I RECOMMEND EVERYBODY ELSE DO THE SAME!!

nmathew · Post by **nmathew** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:07 am

Well, it would reduce the flames I read Cyber.

Still, because of this post? hahaha There are more deserving reasons.

Seriously people.

Strafe, maybe the Democratic party is "liberal" in your mind. It is realtive after all. The Nation ran an article bitching about CNN being too conservative after all

Still, any one can easily look at the Democratic party platform and realize that the party is liberal in relation to the Republican party. Since the article was speaking of US politics, I believe it is fair to refer to the democrats and a whole as liberal, remembering that these are relative terms. My dad is a Democrat and a conservative, and even he claims the party is a liberal party. If you people want to say that it isn't go ahead. Still, any literate person can read the party platforms.

A few things for though about that tax cut.

In 1992, the top five percent of taxpayers paid 46 percent of all federal income taxes.

In 1996, the latest year available, this same group paid 51 percent of all income taxes.

You need to give tax cuts to the people who actually pay taxes.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:11 pm

Originally posted by Sheba
Dude it doesn't matter. Not just Democrats think that about Republicans. Green party people and socialists do too.

But people donating to the Democratic party know exactly why they're doing it. It's for LIBERAL cause advancement. They're not doing it for tax cuts or less government or whatever.

Actually compare the democrates to virtually any european 'left wing' party and it is still very right wing, just less so comparitavely. You can drone on all about 'Demo is roughly left for america' but that still equates to being very right in europe.

The democrates from my British perspective is still very pro-big business etc etc making them comparable to the Tories (the major right sided party) in the UK.

Heck in the UK much of the dead wood in the Tory party (and there is a lot of it) is constantly fighting and teaming up with old rivals just to stop the sensible candatates who could actually win the election at some point because they are too far left.And the BNP is as right wing as you go has claimed that the Tories are infact in some cases further right them them. Much like most of Labour hate the fact Tony Blair is further right than a great many tories.

TAX cuts or raises is dependent on whom. In the UK the public were happy that the last tax rise was to totally going to the NHS etc (susposibly) and agreed it was for a good cause.

And George Bush's tax cuts will have to be paid for at some point with the amount he is borrowing. High or low taxs or not things a government do have to be paid for. Short term wise it's easy to cut tax's, win votes and let the sucker who will edventually come after sort it out. Edventually taxes will rise.

Why push down either left or right wing parties?

Both have policies which either work or don't work.

On other issues the more government factor quite often stems from right wing parties in Europe with masses of red tape for bussiness's being introduced in the 90's.

TFARCHIVE FORUMS

Sheba's Combo Left Side Thread

Another liberal myth about republicans shot to hell