2nd movies you love to hate

DarkDenmark4 · Post by **DarkDenmark4** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:55 am

im sik of good movies that is ruiend by a 2nd movie
what about you?

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:32 am

Sequels don't ruin the original. They are seperate entities.

How many people do you know who use the existence of Alien Resurrection as proof that Alien was cack?

Do the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi mean somebody will hate The Empire Strikes Back the first time they see it?

The devalued legacy of a franchise doesn't immediately make the original rubbish.

Prowl1984 · Post by **Prowl1984** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:58 pm

True Story, there isn't much of an argument/discussion there... if a sequel is done badly it's a shame if anything, not a mark on the original.

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:10 pm

True. But bad sequels can always cloud someone's mind as they remember the original.

*In a world where Batman was a stand-alone film*

Guy: Hey, you ever see Batman?

Dude: Yeah, cool movie.

*In the real world*

Guy: Hey, you ever see Batman?

Dude: Yeah, cool movie. But you see Batman & Robin? That movie sucked!

But sequels don't alter the actual quality of the original itself, unless you're one of those filmmakers who goes and edits the originals so that they resemble the tone of the lesser sequels, thus damaging the quality of the original film so that it can be more like the sequels/prequels.

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:44 pm

I thought Ocean's 12 completely ruined Ocean's 11. Bennedict ended up getting his money back from them, so the aspect of them screwing him over and getting away with it was taken away. I haven't been able to watch and enjoy Ocean's 11 since I saw Ocean's 12, and 11 used to be one of my favorite movies.

Dead Man Wade · Post by **Dead Man Wade** » Mon May 09, 2005 11:50 pm

Originally posted by DrSpengler
But sequels don't alter the actual quality of the original itself, unless you're one of those filmmakers who goes and edits the originals so that they resemble the tone of the lesser sequels, thus damaging the quality of the original film so that it can be more like the sequels/prequels.

Yeah, but only a complete hack would do that...

Baxter · Post by **Baxter** » Tue May 10, 2005 11:32 am

Originally posted by Blitzwing
I thought Ocean's 12 completely ruined Ocean's 11. Bennedict ended up getting his money back from them, so the aspect of them screwing him over and getting away with it was taken away. I haven't been able to watch and enjoy Ocean's 11 since I saw Ocean's 12, and 11 used to be one of my favorite movies.

SPOILER! (select to read)
Didn't Benedict get the money from the Grey Fox?

At least that's how I understand how the end played out after multiple veiwings.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:54 pm

Sometime's a sequel can have a negative effect on it's predecessor (Alien 3 killing off Newk and Hicks right at the start takes a lot away from Ripley's big rescue at the end of the previous film), but for the most part tripe like For Your Eyes Only won't stop me loving Moonraker.

Prowl? · Post by **Prowl?** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:22 pm

I can't really name any 2nd sequence sequels I adamantly hate, but I CANNOT stand Alien 3. They took everything that made the first two great (Guns, technology, swarming packs, emotionally connected characters) and turned it into Oz in outspace. I really hated the fact that there was no guns, I REALLY hated the fact that there was only 1 alien and I was furious when they killed off the Hicks and Newt characters offscreen in the introduction, and then punked out the Bishop character by simply using him as a simple tool. Sigorney Weaver should *NEVER* have gotten into a position of power concerning this franchise. I wish it was *HER* character that got the axe in the intro, which would have been more creative and made the Newt character more motivated.

I love Fight Club and Se7en as much as the next guy, but David Fincher really screwed up here.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:07 pm

In Star Wars the prequel troligy has had the effect of either manking some love the original more and others the original tarnished by whats happened.

Post by **Sades** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:20 pm

I'm the only person in the world who has ever liked the Ewoks movie.

Seriously though... The only real series of films I dislike (and mildly at that) due to the sequels it has (more the amount of releases actually) is Star Wars. I liked the original SW movies well enough, at one point. Wasn't a huge fan, but didn't dislike them overmuch... Then it seemed they just started getting rammed down people's throats. New editions, versions, etc... then, new movies, then new versions of those... it just got freaking rediculous after awhile.

I'm not saying it's just SW... there's director's cuts and whatnot of other movies. I just find it more pronounced in the SW series for some reason.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed May 11, 2005 1:05 am

Sorta agree with Sades here... SW just seems to have so much baggage nowadays. It's difficult to watch them, I find, without thinking of Jar-Jar or that pod-racing turd or whatever. It's something I sort-of wished had stayed at three great Bank Holiday/Christmas films... when I was younger, I always wanted more. Reading a few SW comics and seeing The Phantom Menace gave me a sharp lesson in being careful what I wished for.

But then, film series have a certain strange continuity to them... forinstance, if Ocean's 12 does spoil Ocean's 11, I'm never going to know, because I highly doubt I'll watch "12" ever. But bad sequels [as a general phrase; nobody spout Scream 2 'scripted as a trilogy' bull**** at me] to tend to make me a bit more, erm, antagonistic when rewatching earlier installments... I was thoroughly underwhelmed by Return of the King, and since then haven't found The Two Towers quite as much fun - it builds up so well, but you know bloody Return of the Padding King is coming next, cutting out the anticipation.

Wildfire Herald · Post by **Wildfire Herald** » Wed May 11, 2005 2:04 am

Originally posted by Prowl?
I can't really name any 2nd sequence sequels I adamantly hate, but I CANNOT stand Alien 3. They took everything that made the first two great (Guns, technology, swarming packs, emotionally connected characters) and turned it into Oz in outspace. I really hated the fact that there was no guns, I REALLY hated the fact that there was only 1 alien and I was furious when they killed off the Hicks and Newt characters offscreen in the introduction, and then punked out the Bishop character by simply using him as a simple tool. Sigorney Weaver should *NEVER* have gotten into a position of power concerning this franchise. I wish it was *HER* character that got the axe in the intro, which would have been more creative and made the Newt character more motivated.

Isn't there an Aliens comic arc that has an adult Newt as the main character? Or I am just remembering wrong?

Not disbuting that she died in Alien 3 or that that was lame, I just seem to recall reading comics centered around her.

Dark Dranzer · Post by **Dark Dranzer** » Wed May 11, 2005 2:52 am

Most sequals don't bother me really...but I'd have to see the original before I see any of the sequals...It depends on what you think of them basically.

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Wed May 11, 2005 3:21 am

Originally posted by Wildfire Herald
Isn't there an Aliens comic arc that has an adult Newt as the main character? Or I am just remembering wrong?

The Dark Horse comics that came out from '88-'91 had Newt as the main character, with Hicks in there to a lesser extent. After Alien3 came out, they changed the names to reflect the new continuity.

I love Fight Club and Se7en as much as the next guy, but David Fincher really screwed up here.

Blaming Fincher for Alien3's shortcomings is a little hasty, considering he didn't write the script and it wasn't even finished before they started shooting. He got undermined at every turn by meddling producers and eventually had all control taken away from him by the studio after his first cut. There was plenty of other stuff he wanted to shoot, but Fox wouldn't let him. The fact of the matter is that Fox, "set out to make a release date and not a movie," as one exec put it. The whole thing was ****ed. Ridley Scott and James Cameron could have co-directed the thing, gotten along great the whole time and chances are it still would've been a complete mess with no solid script and no time to make anything work. Fincher only stuck around and didn't quit outright because he knew he'd never work in Hollywood again if he quit. This is something he's still bitter about today. There's a reason he had absolutely nothing new to do with the Quadrilogy special edition...

But yes, it was a mistake for him to approve of killing off Newt and Hicks. Just because they were somebody else's characters didn't mean he couldn't do his own thing with them.

Prowl? · Post by **Prowl?** » Wed May 11, 2005 9:42 pm

Originally posted by BigMaki
There's a reason he had absolutely nothing new to do with the Quadrilogy special edition...

But yes, it was a mistake for him to approve of killing off Newt and Hicks. Just because they were somebody else's characters didn't mean he couldn't do his own thing with them.

I noticed that he wasn't anywhere to be seen on that set too.... I guess he agrees with me that the movie is an entire peice of steaming brown/green vomit-inducing crap.

But that was the point that I was alluding to about Fincher screwing up Alien 3. There was so much potential in the Newt character with her relationship with Ripley, and Micheal Biehn is just bad ass, so thats probally my biggest hate for that movie,

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Wed May 11, 2005 11:29 pm

Originally posted by Prowl?
I noticed that he wasn't anywhere to be seen on that set too.... I guess he agrees with me that the movie is an entire peice of steaming brown/green vomit-inducing crap.

Well, he doesn't even consider it his movie anymore, so I guess you could call that agreement.

But that was the point that I was alluding to about Fincher screwing up Alien 3. There was so much potential in the Newt character with her relationship with Ripley, and Micheal Biehn is just bad ass, so thats probally my biggest hate for that movie,

Again, Fincher didn't write the script, and who knows if he could have gotten anything changed to include them anyway. He had so little control throughout the production that really, all he can definitely lay claim to is the fact that they all shaved their heads and it was his idea.

Prowl1984 · Post by **Prowl1984** » Wed May 11, 2005 11:39 pm

I can't believe Police Academy hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet....now that's the True definition of flogging a dead horse

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:36 am

Originally posted by Prowl?
I CANNOT stand Alien 3. They took everything that made the first two great (Guns, technology, swarming packs, emotionally connected characters) and turned it into Oz in outspace.

Alien didn't have guns, swarming packs and the characters didn't really like each other all that much...

can't believe Police Academy hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet....now that's the True definition of flogging a dead horse

I'm betting Christopher Lee and ron Pearlman love to be reminded of Mission to Moscow.