Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

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dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
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Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

Post by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron » Wed May 18, 2005 7:48 pm

SPOILERS!!!
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...and it certainly was the best of the 3 prequels, however it still has its downs. I was lucky enough to see an employee show 1 day before it came out. Hehe, it just makes me want to go to the theatre and laugh at all the Star Wars fans who've been waiting in line for weeks (even a month) and say, "Hey, I've seen the movie in advance and had no wait in line. Who's 'da man! Haha!"

The good...

- Anakin's transition to Darth Vader: I have to say it was done very well as this whole flick shows his love for Padame and the risks he willing to take to save her. The way Palpatine twists things around and convinces Anakin that it's the Jedi who want to control the Republic with their "twisted" ways was great.

- Characterization of Anakin: Gotta say that in AoTC, I felt nothing for Anakin. He was so damn bland and not intresting at all. In RoTS, his character has depth and emotion. Once again, the risks he takes for Padame to save her is what leads him to the dark side.

- Lightsaber battles: This movie definitely had the best lightsaber duels. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan and Yoda vs. Palpatine were perfectly executed and very long, which surprised me.

- Closure: Questions like, "How the hell is Darth Vader so tall, yet Anakin is so small?" and "How come C-3PO and R2-D2 do not know anything in Episode IV about what occured in eps 1-3, when they were there?" are answered.

- The ending: It had that nostalgic feeling from the original trilogy. The Moffs aboard the star destroyer with Palpatine and Vader while overviewing the construction of the Death Star was great. The music playing when Obi-Wan hands off Luke to his aunt and uncle while they stare off into the dual sunsets, like Luke did in ep. IV was cool.

The Bad...

- Count Dooku: Here's the guy in AoTC, who played an important part was shown as someone who you don't f'ck with. In this movie, he's in one scene, 1 scene! He had all, but I think 2 lines (cheesy ones at that too). He's killed so easily and quickly, I was like, WTF? Lame!

- Dialogue: Once again, our ears are filled with some lame cheesy one-liners and un-original script writing. Don't get me wrong, it was certainly better than the last two, but not by much.

- Mace Windu: I was hoping his fight with Palpatine was going to be long and unforgettable. Sorry to say, it was quick and I wished we could have seen him in action more. His death, however, was nicely executed.

- General Grevious: Here's a character that I thought could have been interesting, but with a 2 1/2 movie, it's hard to fit in any characterization when the movie's focused on Anakin and tying it in to the original trilogy. He reminded me of Darth Maul. He was only there as a fill in character for Obi-Wan to fight. It was tight how he was wielding 4 lightsabers though.

- The Jedis and their deaths: Man, this was what pissed me off most. The majority of them were backstabbed by the clone troopers and Lucas didn't show them putting up much of a fight. They basically just got blasted and that was it. Very poorly done.


In all, it's certainly a good movie. I'll definitely see it again this weekend and try to pick up on stuff that I missed the first time. Hell, I was pretty drunk last night watching it, that I'm sure I missed some things. Go see it.

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Post by verytired » Wed May 18, 2005 7:54 pm

"- Mace Windu: I was hoping his fight with Palpatine was going to be long and unforgettable. Sorry to say, it was quick and I wished we could have seen him in action more. His death, however, was nicely executed."

Damn it, damn it, damn it damn it damn it damn it damnitdamnit dammitdammitdammitdammit
DAMN LUCAS TO HELL!!!!!!!!!
:mad:
I was hoping for so much from Jackson, Lucas and that big Purple Lightsabre. Yet again I am DENIED!!
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Post by Jetfire » Wed May 18, 2005 8:00 pm

Yeah. Damn ucas for not making Papps vs Mace longer because Sam Jackson has a purple Lightsaber. Who cares if hes a supporting character and we have 5 lightsaber battles, 2 of wihich are very long. It's terrible a side character with apurple Lightsaber doesn't have a longer fight sceen.
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Post by verytired » Wed May 18, 2005 8:06 pm

Originally posted by Jetfire 2.1
Yeah. Damn ucas for not making Papps vs Mace longer because Sam Jackson has a purple Lightsaber. Who cares if hes a supporting character and we have 5 lightsaber battles, 2 of wihich are very long. It's terrible a side character with apurple Lightsaber doesn't have a longer fight sceen.


All very good points, consider myself rebuked. Don't you think it's a shame that a good actor should be wasted in a role? I know it was tacked on after Lucas heard Jackson mention wanting to be in the films on a talk show, so really maybe they shouldn't have put the part in.
I don't know. Maybe I just like purple too much.:angel:
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Post by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron » Wed May 18, 2005 11:32 pm

And one more bad...

- Padme's death: I'm sorry, but I felt no remorse or sympathy when she died. Maybe it was because I was drunk. Heck, I don't even remember her last words. Ahh hell, I need to watch it again.

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Re: Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

Post by Bombshell » Thu May 19, 2005 12:09 am

Megs, forgive me, but the inner Geek in me is demanding I do something about this.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
- Count Dooku: Here's the guy in AoTC, who played an important part was shown as someone who you don't f'ck with. In this movie, he's in one scene, 1 scene! He had all, but I think 2 lines (cheesy ones at that too). He's killed so easily and quickly, I was like, WTF? Lame!


From a character point, his death is anything but "lame". Anyone who read the ROTS novel will tell you this. The short of it is that good ol' Palps has been grooming Anakin from the day they met to become his apprentice when the time was right. Anyone associated with him during this time was little more than a means to that end. Palps finally decided that Anakin was ready, hence Dooku had to go.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
- Dialogue: Once again, our ears are filled with some lame cheesy one-liners and un-original script writing. Don't get me wrong, it was certainly better than the last two, but not by much.


And you can say pretty much the same thing about the other movies. Not just Episodes 1 and 2, but the CT, as well.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
- Mace Windu: I was hoping his fight with Palpatine was going to be long and unforgettable. Sorry to say, it was quick and I wished we could have seen him in action more. His death, however, was nicely executed.


Dude, you must have been drunk. Granted, I haven't seen it yet, but from what I can tell from the novel, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
- General Grevious: Here's a character that I thought could have been interesting, but with a 2 1/2 movie, it's hard to fit in any characterization when the movie's focused on Anakin and tying it in to the original trilogy. He reminded me of Darth Maul. He was only there as a fill in character for Obi-Wan to fight. It was tight how he was wielding 4 lightsabers though.


And like Darth Maul, his background is pretty well covered in the EU. Go read Labryinth of Evil and watch Clone Wars Season 3.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
- The Jedis and their deaths: Man, this was what pissed me off most. The majority of them were backstabbed by the clone troopers and Lucas didn't show them putting up much of a fight. They basically just got blasted and that was it. Very poorly done.


Of all the "bad" things you mentioned, this is the one I find myself surprised the most about. You're complaining that the Jedi's didn't put up much of a fight against the turned clones. There's a reason for that. You know what it is?

They never expected them to turn. That was the whole point of Order 66. Get the Jedi together with as many clones as possible on the most barren hellholes you can imagine, and when the time is right, pull the trigger.

I'll probably have more to say once I've actually seen the film, but for now, I hope that I've explained to you why this "bad" stuff isn't that bad at all.

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Post by Chromia » Thu May 19, 2005 12:25 am

I thought the Windu-Mace battle was awesome!!!

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Re: Re: Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

Post by Arcee » Thu May 19, 2005 1:28 am

Originally posted by Bombshell
From a character point, his death is anything but "lame". Anyone who read the ROTS novel will tell you this. The short of it is that good ol' Palps has been grooming Anakin from the day they met to become his apprentice when the time was right. Anyone associated with him during this time was little more than a means to that end. Palps finally decided that Anakin was ready, hence Dooku had to go.


That, plus the scene is carefully crafted to mirror the Throne Room duel in ROTJ, down to it starting with Palps turning around in his chair, etc., but with the one all-important difference that Anakin did what his son would refuse to do - kill Palpatine's apprentice and (eventually) take his place at Sidious' side.

The whole thing is about choices and their consequences. That's excellent storytelling, folks.

As for Mace's death - well, you can only fit so many "long and unforgettable" fights into one movie. We have the Palpy-Yoda duel and the so beyond epic, absolutely frickin' stunningly awesome lava pit duel - what more do you want? If Lucas would've let each and every named Jedi go out in an impressive lightsaber duel with Vader or Palpy, the movie would be like ten hours long. Now, I wouldn't mind sitting through ten hours of Star Wars (with allowance for potty breaks), but... :p

I cried when Padmé died. In fact, I cried when Anakin/Vader Force-choked her, when she died, and when they showed her funeral.

I'd expected I'd squee out loud at the first sight of "in suit" Vader, but instead I just sat in stunned silence. The feeling of it being a tragic moment, and him being a tragic figure, superseded all "OMG Darth Vader so awesome SQUEE!"

Speaking of which, Episode III reminds me of Greek Tragedy, in a way - the whole classic theme of someone bringing about the fate he fears by trying to escape it. Anakin's was mad afraid that Padmé would die, which led to him turning to the Dark Side and thus to her dying of a broken heart. :(

I'll add more comments when I'm less sleep-deprived.

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Post by Tiki Torch » Thu May 19, 2005 3:38 am

Good ridiance to Mace. I hated him anyways.

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Re: Re: Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

Post by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron » Thu May 19, 2005 4:06 am

Originally posted by Bombshell
From a character point, his death is anything but "lame". Anyone who read the ROTS novel will tell you this. The short of it is that good ol' Palps has been grooming Anakin from the day they met to become his apprentice when the time was right. Anyone associated with him during this time was little more than a means to that end. Palps finally decided that Anakin was ready, hence Dooku had to go.


I understand this and knew it was coming. I just didn't expect it to end so fast in the movie. I like it that he took his place by killing him. It was just that, like I said, the role of Dooku was much larger in AoTC. I just felt ripped off that he was taken out so early in the movie.
Originally posted by Bombshell
And like Darth Maul, his background is pretty well covered in the EU. Go read Labryinth of Evil and watch Clone Wars Season 3.
I saw Clone Wars season 3 and know his background. It's just that for the people who only watch the movies, they have no idea about him.
Originally posted by Bombshell
Dude, you must have been drunk. Granted, I haven't seen it yet, but from what I can tell from the novel, it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
That scene was kind of a blurr to me, but meh. It wasn't my favorite scene, that's all. As you can tell, I have high demands when it comes to fight scenes.
Originally posted by Bombshell
Of all the "bad" things you mentioned, this is the one I find myself surprised the most about. You're complaining that the Jedi's didn't put up much of a fight against the turned clones. There's a reason for that. You know what it is?

They never expected them to turn. That was the whole point of Order 66. Get the Jedi together with as many clones as possible on the most barren hellholes you can imagine, and when the time is right, pull the trigger.

I'll probably have more to say once I've actually seen the film, but for now, I hope that I've explained to you why this "bad" stuff isn't that bad at all.


I know this. I just wish it would have turned out differently, that's all.

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Re: Re: Re: Saw episode III last night [MAJOR SPOILERS]...

Post by Bombshell » Thu May 19, 2005 4:13 am

Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
It was just that, like I said, the role of Dooku was much larger in AoTC. I just felt ripped off that he was taken out so early in the movie.


I'm sure that you do. And I'm sure that others will as well. But when you get right down to it, it was a necessary evil that had to happen.
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
I saw Clone Wars season 3 and know his background. It's just that for the people who only watch the movies, they have no idea about him.


Point taken. Then again, how many of those people are out there?
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
That scene was kind of a blurr to me, but meh. It wasn't my favorite scene, that's all. As you can tell, I have high demands when it comes to fight scenes.


While I respect your opinion, I'm sure that I'll end up seeing it differently. Then again, I have the rather unfortunate benefit of being more knowledgeable about this sort of thing. ;)
Originally posted by dEcEpTiCoN MEGAtron
I know this. I just wish it would have turned out differently, that's all.


Personally, I don't see how it could be any different.

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Post by Random Sweep » Thu May 19, 2005 4:34 am

I saw the movie last night and enjoyed it greatly.

Admittedly there were a few things from the book that were left out of the film ( rumour is that they will make it to the DVD release ) Such as the beginnings of the rebellion, and the part where Mace explains to Obi-wan why he is the best choice to take on Greivous.

The lightsaber battles were brilliant, especially the final fight between Obi-wan and Vader.

The killing of the jedi was done really well I thought, you feel so bad for the jedi.

My only real dissapointment came with James Earl Jones. It just sounded well.. Wrong for the voice of the Vader we all know to be whiney and the last exclamation ( Nooooooooooo! ) was terrible.
I know this was nessesary and what the character was like at that point but it just felt wrong.
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Post by Grimlock » Thu May 19, 2005 7:37 am

It's awesome when the Stormtroopers turn. Good stuff for sure.

And yer, more Christopher Lee thanks.

Good flim though.
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Amazing Movie!!

Post by Cassettacon 27 » Thu May 19, 2005 3:57 pm

Last night I had the privilage of seeing Star Wars ep III, and I'll I can say is WOW!!!

This was the best Star Wars movie that I have ever seen! The effects, The battles, the blood, the horror! An amazing movie all the way. Lucas has redimed himself.

I won't go into detail about it, because I don't want to ruin it for anyone, but I will say that I STRONGLY suggest that everyone on this form goes to see the greatest Star Wars movie ever.
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Post by Cliffjumper » Thu May 19, 2005 3:59 pm

Oh wow, a Star Wars Episode 3 review topic. We really needed one of these. Thanks.

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Post by Random Sweep » Thu May 19, 2005 4:17 pm

Cassettacon, I think that you should have posted this in the newest Star wars thread

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthre ... adid=30650

So as not to clutter up GD with things that are already being discussed.

on a side note perhaps a non-TF Sci-fi forum could work as a home to the many Star Wars/Buffy/Angel/Doctor Who threads that seem to pop up every couple of days in GD :)
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Post by StoneCold Skywarp » Thu May 19, 2005 4:33 pm

**MERGE WITHOUT SEEING SPOILERS!!**

Go me... :wall:
:) Twitter - @stncldskywarp :) PS4 - StoneColdSkywarp :)
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Post by Dead Man Wade » Thu May 19, 2005 5:12 pm

Well, saw the midnight show last night, and I've had a chance to process things.

The good:

-Anakin slaughtering the younglings. Everyone in the theatre gasped when Anakin, without saying a word, clicked on his lightsabre. This was just an amazing scene, and really punctuated Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, as did Anakin's force choking Padme.

-The final battle on Mustafar (or Mostafar....it was hard to tell with the way they were pronouncing it). This was the battle to end all battles, and it just worked perfectly. Obi-Wan's tortured cry at the end of the battle was heart-breaking, as was Anakin screaming "I hate you!"

-Like Arcee said, the tragedy aspect was simply amazing. As much as I enjoy Star Wars, I honestly didn't expect George Lucas to be capable of something of this calibre.

-Vader's rebirth. This whole scene worked really well, especially with Palpatine telling him that he had killed Padme. One of my friends felt that Vader screaming "No!" at the end of the scene was a bit much, but I thought it fit the whole thing rather well.

-Hayden Christiansen. I hated him in Episode II, but he really surprised me in this movie. The emotion (you know, beyond the infantile whining) he managed to display thoroughly impressed me.

On the whole, I'd say this is one of the absolute best Star Wars movies. Was the dialogue kind of crap? Yeah. However, I was so wrapped up in what was going on, I barely even noticed. The pacing was really good, despite everything they tried to cram in, and the whole movie just flowed really well.

One thing that did bug me was the way that some lines just didn't receive the attention I thought they deserved. The one that stood out the most was the scene with Obi-Wan and Padme, when he tells her about Anakin's slaughter of the younglings. It seemed like MacGregor just sort of threw it out there, when a simple pause could have made it so much more poignant. I mean, he's having to deal with the fact that the man he's trained since childhood, a man he considers a close friend, has just betrayed everything he thought he knew and done something utterly horrendous, yet the line came out sounding like, "Yeah, he killed some kids.............Anyway..."

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Post by Commander Shockwav » Thu May 19, 2005 5:32 pm

Saw it last night, midnight show.

Freakin Awesome.


Overall, loved the film. In particular, Emperor Palpatine. He stole the show, in my opinion.

Didn't like how Dooku died so quickly, or how quickly Anakin turns to the darkside.

Will see it again tonight.

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Post by Dead Man Wade » Thu May 19, 2005 5:41 pm

Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
or how quickly Anakin turns to the darkside.


It's not that long a movie...

Seems to me, his progression started in Episode II, and his turn happened as realistically as possible.

-Informed by Palpatine that the Dark Side may allow him to save his wife.
-Forced to kill Mace Windu in order to save Palpatine so that he may learn the power he feels he needs. Obviously broken up about it, but becomes Palpatine's new apprentice.
-Sent to wipe out the Jedi Temple. Probably running on auto-pilot, as I seriously doubt he found slaughtering children to be fun. Dark Side exerts it's grip on him, pulling him further down the path to the Sith. Anakin is lost.
-Sent to kill the Seperatist leaders. Wipes them out without mercy, then nearly kills Padme, solidifying his change into Darth Vader.
-Nearly killed by Obi-Wan, then informed that he killed Padme. Unaware that the children survived, he loses any tether he may have had.

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