Sean Penn's a tit

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Cliffjumper
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Sean Penn's a tit

Post by Cliffjumper » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:14 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nterrupted

Got to love it when a B-grade actor decides he's a politician. What a complete twat.

As much as the Guardian and its' readers get on my tits, there are some quality responses on the first page. Presumably the wanker's been shilling his ill-informed crap in front of other morons with no idea of the base issues and thus has no idea how many holes his argument has in it.

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Post by Notabot » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:57 pm

This is not a cause of leftist flamboyance nor significantly a centuries-old literary dispute. But rather a modern one, that is perhaps unveiled most legitimately through the raconteurism of Patagonian fishermen. One perhaps more analogous to South Africa than a reparation discussion in South Carolina. As a result, we must look to the mutual recognition of this illusive paradigm by both countries,
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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:58 pm

What's worrying isn't that Penn thinks he's a politician, but that Haiti thinks he is.

Though in fairness, the official American position on the Falklands has always been pretty much "For Christ's sake, would you only fight when we want you to? Or at least not against nearby countries. It's like having the dog piss on the neighbours lawn" hasn't it?

Actually invading the Falklands was probably the worst thing Argentina could have done really, if they'd have just kept up diplomatic pressure and played a long game they'd have been given up without much more than a shrug in the end. Now, not a chance. It'd be too embarrassing. It pretty much means Spain will never get Gibraltar either as we can't really hand over the one without looking amazingly hypocritical. Factor in the war helping Thatcher win the next election it pretty much ruined everything for everyone.

Though considering the general unimportance of the islands, and the fact the people who live there want to stay British, I can't see any real harm in leaving them as is. My real problem is the shameless jingoism it brings out in people and the press. As if having military might over Argentina is in some way an impressive thing. I think it's easy for those people to forget how silly and pointless both sides must look to the rest of the world ("They're fighting over that?!").
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Post by Sixswitch » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:12 pm

Ah but what you're forgetting is that

A. It's the gateway to Antartica.
B. We can't let those uppity Argies get one up on us.
C. We have to show the world that we still have an Empire.

All these are arguments that people have tried to use to convince me that we're right to harp on about the place.

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Post by Cliffjumper » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:18 pm

Eh, to be fair, Argentina are the aggressors and have been for all of modern history. Britain's answer has always revolved around the island's right to self-determination, which is probably the sanest thing that can realistically be done; it is a bit silly having to tie up a ship and garrison in such a strange place but then you can't really leave citizens to their fate just because it's a bit awkward. The last time we scaled down our military presence the Argentines invaded the place and ignored various diplomatic overtures, instead leaving hundreds of teenage conscripts to be butchered.

God knows why Penn's set this up as his crusade, though. I guess if he suceeds he'll be wanting to turf all those European-descended guys out of America and handing it back to the natives. Which would actually be quite funny - watching all the plastic shamrocks being confronted with the reality that Ireland isn't like James Cameron thinks it is.

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Post by Summerhayes » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:20 am

Huh. I clicked on the link and it turns out Sean Penn is a different actor from who I thought he was...

I think we've pretty much done everything right in the Falklands, it would just look a lot better if we didn't go on about it. I seem to recall the actual population is smaller than the town i live in and they're barely self-sustaining.
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Post by Rurudyne » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:00 am

One thing about the Falklands that always gets me is that the Argentinians were apparently taken somewhat by surprise, or such was my perception at the time.

I mean, there's the fleet setting sail and all that with the clear message: "We're coming!" and it's hardly a mystery at how long it takes to cover the distance. Ditto for the in flight refueling of aircraft. All reported in the press. And yet I got this sense of "Where did you come from?!?" on the part of Argentina's forces.
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Post by Cliffjumper » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:19 pm

Snavej/Thruradar,

Please stop using the "report post" function to make spurious, belated and largely asisine complaints about my posts. You can make much better use of your time by genuinely interacting with this or another community rather than playing at Mary Whitehouse. This topic was posted close to a week ago, and our regular members who post and interact with each other on a daily basis have found no grounds to take offense at either the politics or language used by me in this topic. I see no reason why the views of someone who no longer posts and has registered a sockpuppet alternate account for the purpose of reporting posts should trump those of our regulars.

At the very least have the guts to publically post and point out exactly what's rude about the topic. As far as I know, there are no posting restrictions on either of your accounts, simply a record of being called out by myself and several others when you have made statements filled with factual inaccuracies.

Everyone else,

Please be aware that reported posts are generally taken seriously and in candour, especially if it's me that's being reported as I'm a bloody horror (29,424 of mine have been reported since 2001 due to copyright violations, libel, slander, threats of violence, gross sexual indecency, attempting to sell Nazi memorabilia to other board members, containing positive remarks about AHM and sundry other crimes). As long as you're not the sockpuppet account of a known crank this will not happen to you.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Cliffjumper wrote:containing positive remarks about AHM and sundry other crimes).

You sicken me.

Sades actually brought some jackboots didn't she?

Vaguely on topic, and to play devil's advocate for the moment:

Considering the government is perfectly happy to use compulsory purchase orders to move people who don't want to for things like the Olympics or the high speed railway grubbins (alright, that last one might not go through- though considering the people affected seem to mostly be the sort of rich upper middle class people the British generally like to see suffer I doubt their appeals have much chance even if the idea of going for a super train when we can't get the regular ones to work properly seems a bit pointless) would it really be so evil of them to do the same with the Falklanders in oder to prevent a potential war?

After all, if they want to farm sheep in the arse end of nowhere there are plenty of places in the highlands they could go. Indeed, if some sort of cunning Star Trek: Insurrection style move them whilst they sleep style plot were put into effect they might not notice for years.
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Post by Lady Quickswitch » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:31 pm

Crazy Lady would like to know, what's the point of discussing politics?

Why not go outside, or take your laptop outside, and build a tree fort with your kids. If you have any kids. Or build one for yourself and declare it a micronation called Treeland, with a thriving apple or walnut economy. Something fun!

I imagine all you guys sitting at your computers with scrunched up faces and maybe a cynical grin or two, but mainly scrunchy with steam coming out of your ears, and that can't be fun.

..Do you really like talking about politics....?

Not trolling, just curious!
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Post by Cliffjumper » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:10 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:After all, if they want to farm sheep in the arse end of nowhere there are plenty of places in the highlands they could go.
TBH, this will happen some point down the line, but probably not before the end of our lives. The 1982 invasion did untold damage to any diplomatic overtures, and I can see why no Prime Minister is going to hand the things over while the conflict is still relatively fresh. It's rewarding aggressive behaviour. The last time the British presence in the area was downgraded the place was illegally occupied (the Endurance was something like two months off being retired and not replaced).

And while the wishes of the islanders are paramount, it doesn't hurt to have the place as a naval base in the event of future war. Argentina's claim is weak, the UK shouldn't have to give up territory just because they won't shut the Hell up about it and have a habit of letting facists run the place. The Argentines only want it for the same basic reasons the British are hanging onto it, and considering the British have spent centuries maintaining and building the place I don't see any reason for a change.

We're also a long way off any sort of potential war - this is basically the same diplomatic sabre-rattling that's been going on since Argentina became independent, it's just that Madonna's ex-husband has decided to wade into it (he also directed Into the Wild, and thus has common ground with identifying with complete morons) this time. Argentina bluntly wouldn't dare after the kicking they had last time; domestic opinion is surely for diplomacy rather than sending another few hundred young under-trained under-equipped men to get butchered.

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Post by Denyer » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:35 pm

Lady Quickswitch wrote:Something fun!
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Post by Jaynz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Lady Quickswitch wrote:Crazy Lady would like to know, what's the point of discussing politics?
Personally I like to enjoy it as an intellectual exercise. Also, when I'm designing settings or just futzing around writing, the 'what if' of politics makes for better story fodder.

Sadly, most people, from my experience, talk 'politics' because they desperately want to be part of a 'movement'. For these people, being part of the 'movement', and thus belonging to something, is far more important than the causes of the movement itself. (For a rather extreme example, look at the Occupy movement, which couldn't articulate a cause beyond "We're made and we want more money" and "We're mad and we want YOUR money".)

Right now, American politics is dominated by these 'movements', and it's very troubling. For me, it's very hard to talk about politics on any level since, more likely than not, I'll be dealing with someone who has subscribed their own personal identity to these movements. This include the Tea Party, Gay Rights Movement, Occupy Movement, Labor Movement, Ron Paulians, Warmists, and so on.

With people who have subsumed their identities in such a way, you can no longer really discuss issues with them. At most, you'll hear regurgitated talking points from 'on high'. This is no longer their belief but their Belief (TM) and even discussing the Belief marks you as either an enemy or a heretic. I've seen jobs lost, divorces, violence, and even murder commited in the name of these 'causes' in the past couple of years.

There's a reason that discussing politics and/or religion was considered taboo in polite society. The reason is that, quite simply, too many people are just incapable of doing it.

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Post by Summerhayes » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:12 pm

TFVanguard, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. As a rule, I don't discuss politics or religion with anyone who cares. Apparently, you're not allowed to correct people's opinions regardless of stupidity.

To be honest, I'm more interested in the Sean Penn aspect than having another winge about the falklands. Now I know who he is, I'm a bit divided. On the one hand, he's a headline grabbing twat most famous for having once been married to a singer. On the other, The Assassination of Richard Nixon was a really good film.
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Post by Jaynz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:46 pm

Summerhayes wrote:TFVanguard, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. As a rule, I don't discuss politics or religion with anyone who cares. Apparently, you're not allowed to correct people's opinions regardless of stupidity.
Well, you don't get to correct opinions, but you do get to correct facts. It's honestly possible for two reasonable, intelligent people to look at the same set of datapoints and extrapoloate different conclusions. If one person has his facts wrong, of course, then that's another issue, and his conclusions will of course be called into question.
To be honest, I'm more interested in the Sean Penn aspect than having another winge about the falklands. Now I know who he is, I'm a bit divided. On the one hand, he's a headline grabbing twat most famous for having once been married to a singer. On the other, The Assassination of Richard Nixon was a really good film.
Sean Penn is one of those handful of Hollywood types that are desperately seeking legitimacy in the world. They know that their entire worth to the world is purely superficial and are desperately trying to prove there's something more 'meaningful' beyond that. Of course, since they are narcissistic twats these stunts usually come off as anti-American screeds, assinine temper-tantrums, and pro-fascist drivel. Sean Penn is probably the poster child for this sad, sad type of person, but he's far from the only one.

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Post by Lady Quickswitch » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:10 am

I found myself reading this thread and chuckling, then wondering why I was reading it. Learned something new about the Falklands. And Sean Penn. He's a politician now?

Not really into Schadenfreude, and my identity isn't bound up in a political Belief. This is the sorta thread I like lurking in, appreciating the wit of others (Cliffy), and having a dark roast decaf.
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Post by Sades » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm

We do plenty of fun stuff. Massively fun stuff. We're loads of fun.

I'm mainly here for shits and giggles. And tea drinking. While I wait for my hair to dry.

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