Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

[inflatable dalek]

It was for love, great. But what does it mean? Has he been secretly working against Autobot interests the entire time, because so far all we've got is him working for centuries to make Megatron sunnier. It just seemed a bit underwhelming, is all; I figured the bulk of the time spent after returning to the present would be spent at least asking some difficult questions, rather than just a shot of him in the brig.

I think a few people must have been asking Roberts directly about things like that as he's come out on Twitter to say that this wasn't the last ever issue and peoples concerns about motivations and consequences will be addressed.

I liked how the 'message from the future' was played out, personally. As a narrative trick, it served a purpose to tease some future developments so that we, as an audience, would gasp whenever a coffin was mentioned, etc. but we're 38 issues in now and we don't need it any more. I liked that we expected it to be an accurate and precisely-delivered prophecy but instead was a poorly considered, off-the-cuff scheme from the members of the crew least inclined to think things through. We've got Tailgate's embellishments and flair for the dramatic, Rodimus' guilt, Chromedome's remorse and Riptide's blinkered jingoism. I'd wager that Roberts only had a vague idea of where that message was going to be resolved back in issue #1 but I think this was the best possible way to tie it up with a bow.

I just think it had run too long to be resolved with a gag, it wasn't as if the comic needed a long running tease after the first few issues. Indeed, I think it had most of us at "Hello".

[Auntie Slag]

That was spectacular! What a cool ending, bouncing around in so many ways, adding so much more than I thought would be contained in an issue like this. I’m so happy that Brainstorm isn’t a killer Decepticon. As I was reading it, I started to wonder; if Brainstorm wasn’t trying to save anyone by this escapade, and considering the pointlessness of someone like Brainstorm killing Megatron, the creator of a four-million years war that’s kept Brainstorm in the crazy weapons department that he so loves… was he simply happy to destroy the timeline and himself with it? The only reason that didn’t make sense is because he’s a coward (re: his reaction to the Sparkeater when confronted in the lift).

I saw a picture on Twitter that made me wonder if Perceptor is the reformatted or rebodied version of Quark? But then there isn’t anything particularly revelatory about that. Still glad that Brainstorm was ultimately doing it for love, touching on that one panel from issue drawn by the different artist where Brainstorm looks deeply at an emotionally (and physically) crippled Chromedome.

I wonder if Whirl is going to make the odd “Whose your Daddy” statements, or start having any mildly paternal feelings towards Megatron? Also (and this bugs me a lot now), Whirl is infinitely dextrous with his claws. What need does he have for hands any more? Or was he absolutely unbelievable with his hands that would have put him in league with Ratchet? Mind you, he hasn’t wanted normal hands since his imprisonment on Garrus-1.

But that other thing is, what use do Transformers have for Watchmakers? Its not suggested anywhere that Whirl was an analogue watchmaker, but is that not what we’re all thinking? Its an art form of a sort, but… is that why the Functionists wanted his business put down, because it reflected art and creative notions? Harder to control that, perhaps. So its more that Whirl was feared because he was an artist/anarchist and watchmaking was an outlet.

It makes me wonder if the title ‘Elegant Chaos’ is a reference to Whirl; being the first to split from the Functionist’s dogma, and therefore the first thing to tear everything apart, and yet can create beauteous timepieces or order.

And the final page suggests Rung is linked to Unicron, by way of the lines and patterns in the close-up of Rung’s face, appearing to reference the detailing on Unicron in the ’86 movie. Also, Rung is the same colour and pattern as Unicron in the movie, which I’d not noticed until the detailing on the final page. Milne has never drawn anyone in such a way… that must be a giveaway, and what else would scare the Functionists so much?

[inflatable dalek]

I’m so happy that Brainstorm isn’t a killer Decepticon.

Well, unless there's a twist forthcoming (and I wouldn't put it past Roberts), he's still a Decepticon. And he has been responsible for a lot of death's even if he never pulled the trigger himself (which is after all, how his alternate self caused the deaths of the entire ALL crew). He's certianly not a nice person, he's just done terrible things out of a sympathetic motivation.

indeed, Brainstorm was happy to do terrible things for love even though the net result was worse in the long run for the Transformers.

Rewind was prepared to do a terrible thing because it was better for the rest of the Galaxy even if he knew with complete certainty it meant something awful happening to Dominus. His thinking about the rest of his species may have been clouded, but he was by far the more selfless one there.

But that other thing is, what use do Transformers have for Watchmakers?

Well, what use for watchmakers does Western society have when we all have phones that do 50 other jobs and also tell the time? It's just considered an art for the sake of an art by the rich (there's probably a Transformer vinyl maker out there as well), that doesn't stop him doing a delicate difficult job though.

And the final page suggests Rung is linked to Unicron, by way of the lines and patterns in the close-up of Rung’s face, appearing to reference the detailing on Unicron in the ’86 movie. Also, Rung is the same colour and pattern as Unicron in the movie, which I’d not noticed until the detailing on the final page. Milne has never drawn anyone in such a way… that must be a giveaway, and what else would scare the Functionists so much?

Oh no, I can take the "Tarn is Roller" theories on the chin, but "Rung/Unicron" I say no too!

[Knightdramon]

Was re-reading S1 these days...the image into AF Rung's eyes [and Underbase-esque face] is more or less the same as the image in our Rung's eyes when he looks at the portal leading to Luna 1 on Remain in Light pt1.

Was thinking about this on my way home...basically for stuff to happen as they do, a very specific sub-set of bots must survive no matter what up until that point in that timeline. In order for that to happen, many other bots need to stay alive/dead in order for them all to be present, at that spot, together.

Just some sociotemporal hot spots I thought about.

--Nova Major must survive the siege at Prima's castle approximately 6 million years ago. In doing so, he becomes Nova Prime, who introduces spark splicing/constructed cold bots, of which some important ones are present in that event. He must also take Cyclonus onto the Dead Universe [killing him], so that Cyclonus can be revitalized in order to save Tailgate, as well as aid Rodimus in various Elegant Chaos events, the most notable being energizing the U1/Lost Light, so the technology that they use to go back in time happens at first.

Tailgate must survive no matter what in order to stop Tyrest from killing the constructed cold bots, which would end Brainstorm's life.

Overlord must live long enough to wreck havoc on the Lost Light, killing [citation needed] the original Rewind, which would push Chromedome into further despair, which prompted Brainstorm to alter his original plan and try to change Megatron's path instead of just saving Quark. Rewind being dead [citation needed] needs to happen in order for AL Rewind to still exist when the duplicate Lost Light vanishes, who then proceeds to shoot and kill Megatron's original spark.

Roller/Tarn must proceed with saving the sparks that go on to Nyon, Rodimus potentially being one of them, and Chromedome needs to erase Pax's crew's memories in order for them to forget Roller, who then goes to the dark side and leads the DJD to murder the AL Lost Light Autobots but leave AL Rewind alive.

Rodimus must live so he kills off Tyrest's killswitch [only possible via Tailgate], ensuring Brainstorm is alive, and then must lead some crew of the Lost Light back in time, aid in himself being born and energize the U1/Lost Light's engines.

Chromedome must live to go in deep regret over Rewind's death, which prompts Brainstorm to change his original plan. He must also live to erase the memory from Pax and the others about Roller---see above for his chain.

AL Rewind must survive the Alt LL massacre orchestrated by Roller/Tarn who went there because of Overlord so that he might go back in time to shoot Megatron's original spark.

Rung must live to set foot on Luna 1, energizing Megatron's superspark which then Brainstorm takes. Rung must also be present at the bar to set off the fight that started getting Megatron on the warpath.

Whirl must survive everything up until that point, not only to actually cause Megatron to shift his ways in the past, but also to save Megatron by putting the 0.1% spark in him and save him.

Rodimus and Cyclonus, combined, must live to energize the Lost Light's engines in the past, which prompted the technology that actually splits the Lost Light in two parallel LL's in the present, which prompted the crew to find out that Brainstorm is a Decepticon but also so that a duplicate time travelling briefcase is available.

I swear, this can go on forever if I was up to it.

[Warcry]

Yeah, the message did seem like a HUGE cop-out. Especially after JR has said that the group might go to Delphi at another time, and the message could be linked at their second visit.

Some parts of the message, in retrospect, make no sense because nothing changed from them---

Agreed, it was a big cop-out. I get the feeling, though, that the story has deviated so far from Roberts' original plans by now that his original ideas for the message simply didn't work anymore. That's not something I can really blame him for, since a lot of the things that happened since the series launched weren't his doing (such as Dark Cybertron and the presence of Megatron).

But the issue wrapped up so many other, little mysteries that it felt like this one didn't get the attention it deserved. It probably would have worked better if they'd sent it when they thought the existing timeline was doomed, rather than tacking it on at the end as a nonsensical aside in between finding a home for Brainstorm's stolen spark and explaining where the Lost Light came from. Just a bit too much flying around at once, IMO.

On the other hand, Rewind's logic seemed a bit off (ironically after we thought he was ready to do anything for Dominus he still shot Megatron even though he must know what happened to him in the other timeline), but he's still suffereing from PTSD so that worked, and how it bought him and Domey back together was lovely.

Was his logic off, though? We still don't know what Dominus's fate in the real timeline was, or if our replacement Rewind ever found out about it. Maybe what happened to him here was even worse than the fate he suffered in the other timeline? Or maybe the war turned him into a monster and Rewind figured that dying a martyred hero was better than that?

Either way, my favourite thing about this issue is that even though it's got a lot going on, it's still very character-oriented. A lot of TF writers will get lost in the action at the climax of their stories, but Roberts seems to have a good handle on how to keep the two balanced. His characters drive the plot, not vice-versa. And because of that you can look back on the issue in retrospect and say "of course it turned out like that!" Because there was no other way it could turn out with this group of characters on the scene, and we've come to know them all well enough to see that after the fact.

(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)

[Unicron]

(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)

Yeah, that's been bugging me too. Perhaps we'll get scenes of Rewind being all distraught over it. That or maybe Brainstorm will try pointing it out and everyone dismiss it because he's a dick.

[inflatable dalek]

Was his logic off, though? We still don't know what Dominus's fate in the real timeline was, or if our replacement Rewind ever found out about it. Maybe what happened to him here was even worse than the fate he suffered in the other timeline? Or maybe the war turned him into a monster and Rewind figured that dying a martyred hero was better than that?

Well, we know Dominus had his head replaced and his mind altered to be a walking TV advert (and that presumably Rewind saw all that when his Database updated), if we assume Rewind doesn't know what really happened to our Dominus that's got to be something he wants not to happen.

(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)

You know, I hadn't thought of that. Rewind you bastard!

[Auntie Slag]

It was mildly amusing to see the word 'numpty' used by Tailgate. Makes me think of The Office, where Tim changed his screensaver to read 'Gareth is a Benny'.

[zigzagger]

Yay. Later than usual, but I got a moment to add a few additional thoughts.

I suppose this was the best opportunity for lot of these threads to be tied up, especially with the Sparkeater origin and the message. Fairly tidy, and a good contingency in case, well, storylines end up being truncated. Still maintain it was a whole lot of happenstances for one issue.

No biggie, though, and all said happenstances were pretty nifty. Besides, Elegant Chaos' strength has been its character work. Except for Riptide (seriously, what the **** is this guy's deal?), everyone in the time traveling party got to have their moment.

Not at all fussed about Brainstorm's motivation. I was strangely satisfied that it wasn't anything grand or convoluted (doesn't always have to be). A dissatisfied "Decepticon", who did it all for love. It was refreshing "twist".

A shame we're probably not going to get a follow up on this -- the Decepticon thing, and any other repercussions that often sprout up from these sort of time travel tales ---until issue #40. Going by the solicitations, mind you, and those aren't known for their accuracy.

Not a huge complaint, though it briefly took me out of the moment, but how did Whirl get to Brainstorm's 'spare' spark and drag Megatron's body away so quickly and without anyone noticing?

Eh, whatever. Sort of thing happens in comics all the time.

[inflatable dalek]

As I touched upon in the Cliffy You Fool thread, I think the point of Riptide in retrospect is more obvious now than it seemed before. To have one entirely new character on the Rod Pod we couldn't be entirely sure hadn't been on the Lost Light the first time it launched (and indeed could be shoved in a misdirecting pre-lauch flashback) in amongst all the new toy based new characters we knew for a fact weren't, making the mystery Nightbeat had to solve that bit more tricky.

Everything he's done before and since has basically been to make him look less like a plot device.

Nice podcast interview with James Roberts here about the storyline in general, including the reveal I didn't expect that the message in issue 1 was always going to be coming from the past rather than the future (it's only who'd be sending it he was vague on at the time):

http://www.transmissionspodcast.com/201 ... interview/

[Terome]

I am Terome and I speak for Riptide.

Here's what he's good for:
1. He's a buffer against the hyper-competents. Brainstorm, Perceptor, Rung, Nightbeat, et al. are supposed to be good at their jobs and unabashedly so. Riptide is just a grunt. In this he serves the same function as Swerve and Tailgate but can also act as muscle.
2. As a MTO he has a different origin and perspective to the other characters (except Getaway, who is hyper-competent).
3. He has learning difficulties, which is kind of novel. We've had a lot of generically dumb characters before but most of them are Decepticons or in use elsewhere.
4. He's a boat buddy for Nautica.
5. He states the obvious amongst a cast where people talk in jokes, vagueries or not at all.
6. He's a bigot. Bigots are useful ways to spin drama. Mainframe's a bigot too, but he's needed elsewhere on the ship.

In conclusion, if Mainframe could turn into a boat and was a bit more of a front-liner, Riptide would probably be Mainframe.

[Auntie Slag]

Brainstorm made a comment about feeling like he was dying, and no-one seemed bothered. Whirl took the green spark and put it in Megatron's body, so was Brainstorm on the cusp of croaking?

The last time we see him he's sitting down in what may be a cell on the Lost Light, but if nothing came of his 'dying' statement, why was it mentioned?

[inflatable dalek]

Because, even if he can't shoot someone, Brainstorm is still a lying untrustworthy bastard who was trying to be all "Woe is me!" but no one care because even if he did try to prevent the war in the nice way his Decepticon double agent status must have caused the deaths of a lot of their friends (as I say in the cliffy thread, if nothing else Brainstorm has to be the missing link between Skyfall and the Decepticons getting hold of Gideon's Glue because otherwise security at Kimia is totally crap and Xaaron should hang himself in shame)?

["EXPLAIN BRAINSTORM!" is one of the questions Roberts has responded to on Twitter with "This wasn't actually the last issue" so explanations should be forthcoming soon either way]

My question is... Two spark types are able to follow Brainstorm back into the past because he has his own spark and what became Megatron's. How did those of the second type manage to return to the present with only Brainstorm's "Normal" spark to activate the case?

[Warcry]

My question is... Two spark types are able to follow Brainstorm back into the past because he has his own spark and what became Megatron's. How did those of the second type manage to return to the present with only Brainstorm's "Normal" spark to activate the case?

Reading back, it looks like he specifically built the case to only let his spark type (and probably Megatron's as well, though it's not stated outright) use it for travel, rather than the "matching spark type" requirement being a natural reaction to Brainstorm (and his spare spark) having used it. So even though Megatron didn't make the trip back, the equipment was still calibrated to let sparks of that type through.

Though I'm not sure any of the away team had Megatron-type sparks, because they probably didn't know he'd taken one with him until the last issue. They may all be matches strictly to Brainstorm himself.

[inflatable dalek]

They may all be matches strictly to Brainstorm himself.

I've not done this research myself (I can't tell the difference between Cyclops and Colossus after all) but apparently everyone who went back in time has one of two spark types: the same one Brainstorm has and the same one Megatron has (if that's wrong, someone stone Chris McFeely).

Though the case already being "On" to those types works fine as a solution.

[tahukanuva]

Brainstorm made a comment about feeling like he was dying, and no-one seemed bothered. Whirl took the green spark and put it in Megatron's body, so was Brainstorm on the cusp of croaking?

The last time we see him he's sitting down in what may be a cell on the Lost Light, but if nothing came of his 'dying' statement, why was it mentioned?

I just assumed he was dying because Rodimus blew him half up with a grenade? It definitely put a damper on his day at least.

("The old time travelling grenade trick" ["Is it really old?" "It is now!"] bit is one of my favorite jokes in the series, I must say.)

[Skyquake87]

Read and enjoyed. Not much to add that all you folks haven't already said. I liked the bit where they were watching Back To The Future Part 2, which instantly sent up all the quibbles anyone might have had with this time travel arc.

I also had to double take, because I thought Cyclonus was singing along to Huey Lewis. Turned out it was Swerve and the speech bubble wasn't pointing in the right direction. But I like to pretend it was Cyclonus.

And that James Roberts, he's a massive tease with that ending isn't he? Cheeky man.

[inflatable dalek]

No, it's Cyclonus singing. Roberts must have psychically knew you were thinking on this as he mentioned it on twitter yesterday.

Huey Lewis probably sounds like that olde Cybertronian opera he likes so much.

[Auntie Slag]

I just assumed he was dying because Rodimus blew him half up with a grenade?

But he didn't though, did he? He's still intact, shaken... but that seems to be about it. Limbs didn't get blown off.

If Brainstorm had prevented Megatron becoming an evil so and so, many of the characters aboard the Lost Light would fail to exist, like Riptide for example. Megatron's responsible for billions of deaths, but he's also responsible for many births too, as per Riptide's comment about his own origin.

Finally, Riptide and Nautica are so specifically detailed. There must be toys of the two due to come out? Otherwise I wonder why bother creating someone like Riptide at all. I'd have preferred Seaspray to fill that role, or Waverider.

[Edit] Just wanted to highlight my hypocrisy over disliking Riptide and Nautica's inclusion despite having no problem with non-G1 characters filling biggish roles in this title such as Drift, and non-toy characters like as Ambulon, Pharma and Fulcrum... and of course Rung!

[zigzagger]

Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #39 three-page preview by way of iTunes.