Transformers: More than Meets the Eye season two discussion

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Inaction Master
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Post by Inaction Master »

zigzagger wrote:It took 40 issues, two Spotlights and an annual, but Xaaron finally gets a line of dialogue, unless I'm forgetting something.
No kidding. I feel like I've been waiting for the longest time for him to be given something to do other than accentuate the scenery. I'd just like to know more about his actual standing in canon as of now, or like why he joined the Lost Light crew to begin with.

It'll be sad to see Ratchet go, which I'm hoping is what this is leading to and not him dying tragically or something. Though with him going, First Aid gone and Ambulon... uh, yeah, this kinda means the crew's without a capable medic. Though I guess there's Hoist...
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Post by Unicron »

Inaction Master wrote:It'll be sad to see Ratchet go, which I'm hoping is what this is leading to and not him dying tragically or something. Though with him going, First Aid gone and Ambulon... uh, yeah, this kinda means the crew's without a capable medic. Though I guess there's Hoist...
Well, back in DC when Ratchet was fixing him up, Megatron did say he wanted to be a medic before the war...
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

Read the issue when I should be working.

Quick summary:

Awwwwwwwww

Fantastic stuff. No wacky hijinx, no technobabble, just some solid character work and excellent art. Sets up all kinds of genuinely interesting new arcs and not a line or panel is wasted.
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Post by Denyer »

Yeah, nothing to add but +1 to the appreciation.
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Post by Red Dave Prime »

Just so you know, I am in work now and jealous of you ��
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Post by inflatable dalek »

I thought it was very much a breather issue, with a lot of good moments but it was very much making time and probably the weakest (in relation to the overall quality of the series) thus far in season 2.

Some of the problems weren't of the books own making though. Ratchet gets a heartfelt goodbye, but we know it's so he can go be in the giant bag of three day old cum that was Empire of Stone, that makes it an annoying waste of one of the best characters being shoved into a plot nobody wanted him in. First Aid finally gets to be chief medical officer but (whilst having to go back to Cybertron makes sense in that context) we know he's instead going to wind up part of a giant monster going "Raaaah" as the endpoint of his characterisation. Mirage does something! But he'll wind up doing an crazy Ironhide impression to try and explain a comic nobody wanted explaining (and of course, Ironhide started having visions for the same reason).

The payoff to ten kind of fell flat as well because we've seen so little of him, indeed, is this the first time he's been back since he first appeared? It felt like the end of a storyline that's happened entirely off-camera. He could have at least been shown hanging around Ultra Magnus.

Plus, in a comic where the Getaway scene has caused a lot of fuss, it's surprising no one has commented on the fact Ten is basically a really creepy stalker, watching Magnus, stealing his stuff, making small effigies of him. Yikes.

As for Brainstorm- God-damn it, Auntie Slag was right! I hate it when that happens.

It was a nice scene, but it did feel he got off really lightly for Attempted Destruction of Established History. Indeed, are the Lost Light crew really qualified to try such a crime? That's where bringing Maximus in as the new duly appointed enforcer to oversee things would have helped.

Either way, considering they only have his word for any of what he says, the idea he'd ever be let near his lab again under any circumstances is ridiculous even for this series. He managed to build a time machine under Perceptor's nose, who'd know what he'd get up to if he really is a wrong'un? It all felt a bit too much "Must sustain the status quo no matter what!".

And sure, Brainstorm getting off lightly compared to Drift was sort of the point, but it felt too contrived a way to get Ratchet thinking about this.

The aforementioned Getaway scene... well it was creepy and uncomfortable with all sorts of date rape/abusive boyfriend parallels. Considering this is another long running plot that's barely been touched upon this could do with some resolution soon.

Though based on Brainstorm, it'll turn out Getaway is a nice date rapist so they'll let him off so he can continue being a regular as long as he promises never to do it again.

The Ratchet scenes were by far the best part of the issue.
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Post by zigzagger »

Well, I liked this issue. A lot. It tugged on all the right heartstrings for me.

Ratchet is the real heart of the issue, with all threads framed around him, so it should come as no surprise that I absolutely adored the fuck out of this issue. Very impressive character work, full marks and all that.

Nice follow up on Ratchet and Rodimus's conversation from issue #30 too, and I've sooo been waiting for the other shoe to drop on the subject of Drift. Ratchet finally acknowledges First Aid as the new Chief Medical Officer, again a long time coming. At least it addresses my earlier concerns, though admittedly not quite to my satisfaction. Then there's Ultra Magnus...

Confession time; I've always liked Ultra Magnus. Even when Roberts beat the whole OCD shtick into the freakin' dirt, I still liked the guy. Couldn't take him seriously, mind, but I liked him. Don't ask me why. But this issue showed growth, that there has actually been, you know, progression since Remain in Light. Yes, there's been signs of it here and there since then, but this -- slight as it may have been -- is a step in the right direction.

I like Magnus the character more than Magnus the running gag, I guess is what I'm getting at :)

And Ten. Squeeeeeee! I love Ten! He's adorable! And oh, that sad, sad face. The poor thing. You just want to give the lug a big ol' hug.

Curious on one thing that has no doubt been brought up in the past; since Ten speaks in Tyrest's old code, what does 'ten' actually mean? Something horrible, more than likely. You know, to juxtapose against how cute Ten is.

In the same vein, I have not missed Swerve in the slightest, and this issue did nothing to sway me. He's just as abrasive and obnoxious as we last saw him.

More thoughts to come.
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Post by Heinrad »

I enjoyed the issue, although it was a bit Nightbeat-lite for me. But it was a nice character building issue. And getting everybody who needed to talk to talk was brilliant on Ratchet's part.
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

For shame, Dalek! In times like these I always heed the advice my grandmother gave on her deathbed - 'Just pretend that Drift: Empire of Stone doesn't exist.'

She was a wise woman, dearly missed.

Didn't realise how incensed people were by Getaway. He is coming across as a pick-up artist, which is an interesting kind of peril for Transformers. I'm guessing Cyclonus is going to be stirred into doing something about him at some point.

Here's a neat thing I've read abroad - I hadn't quite grasped the significance of Megatron having the time machine because hey, what is he going to do? But that means he can get into the Functionist Universe. It also means he might go looking for Terminus. That would be cool.

I suppose Ten and the reminder of the Legislator massacre is setting us up for something about the Circle of Light? There's some good horror in the idea of all these guys being Frankenstein'd.
Confession time; I've always liked Ultra Magnus. Even when Roberts beat the whole OCD shtick into the freakin' dirt, I still liked the guy. Couldn't take him seriously, mind, but I liked him. Don't ask me why. But this issue showed growth, that there has actually been, you know, progression since Remain in Light. Yes, there's been signs of it here and there since then, but this -- slight as it may have been -- is a step in the right direction.

I like Magnus the character more than Magnus the running gag, I guess is what I'm getting at
Couldn't agree more. Early Magnus does stand out as a genuine misstep of Season 1. He was useful as the Rimmer of the ship but he works better as a sort of uncool dad.

Can we have more of Cahill?
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Terome wrote:For shame, Dalek! In times like these I always heed the advice my grandmother gave on her deathbed - 'Just pretend that Drift: Empire of Stone doesn't exist.'
But it does exist! We cannot deny it!

One place this fell down was Ratchet seems to be forgetting the reason Drift got such short shrift was that he insisted upon it, otherwise Rodimus would have just revealed the truth.

Then again, apparently Empire retcons this to have him all depressed and broody about being kicked out.

Didn't realise how incensed people were by Getaway. He is coming across as a pick-up artist, which is an interesting kind of peril for Transformers. I'm guessing Cyclonus is going to be stirred into doing something about him at some point.
Yeah, I mean I get it's intentional and is obviously heading for a payoff, it's just an odd direction to go in.
Here's a neat thing I've read abroad - I hadn't quite grasped the significance of Megatron having the time machine because hey, what is he going to do? But that means he can get into the Functionist Universe. It also means he might go looking for Terminus. That would be cool.
Would it work as a full time machine without the other briefcases? Presumably by itself it could just muddle up time a bit like the ALL one did when Nightbeat opened it. Which could still be useful.

I did like Chromedome acting as Brainstorm's defence (though Brainstorm trying to drop Rewind up it with him sitting there next to him makes him even more of a dick). Though surely having a tribunal made up of witnesses to his crimes is legally dodgy? Another reason calling in Maximus would have been a good idea.

How did Brainstorm get let back into Swerve's? Surely he's not the forgiving type?
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Post by Terome »

But it does exist! We cannot deny it!

One place this fell down was Ratchet seems to be forgetting the reason Drift got such short shrift was that he insisted upon it, otherwise Rodimus would have just revealed the truth.
I will concede that it exists but you'll never convince me that it matters.

Interesting point though - Rodimus may have told him in that pregnant pause. He's a git but he doesn't like being dishonest and is uncomfortable when withholding the truth.
Yeah, I mean I get it's intentional and is obviously heading for a payoff, it's just an odd direction to go in.
Yeah, it's one of those things where it's interesting for Transformers. Having a cast that includes a creepy dude macking on the vulnerable member of that cast isn't a new dramatic device by any stretch but, as I say, it makes a nice change from BIG BADs. I don't particularly care that Tarn is amassing a new Decepticon army because, really, what is he going to do? But having a subtler and darker threat is more compelling because Tailgate could get pretty messed up by this. I mean, I know he just got better from having robo-cancer so I'm sure he'll be fine in the long run but it's something relatively different.
Then again, apparently Empire retcons this to have him all depressed and broody about being kicked out.
He does change his mind a lot.
Would it work as a full time machine without the other briefcases? Presumably by itself it could just muddle up time a bit like the ALL one did when Nightbeat opened it. Which could still be useful.
Good for parties. I imagine there will be quite a gap between time-travel hijinx so plenty of time for Megatron to convince Brainstorm or a Brainstorm equivalent to help him reconstruct it.
How did Brainstorm get let back into Swerve's? Surely he's not the forgiving type?
He is, though, the desperate type.
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Post by Warcry »

inflatable dalek wrote:How did Brainstorm get let back into Swerve's? Surely he's not the forgiving type?
When his bar's been so empty for so long, I don't think he's in any position to turn away any customer.

I definitely enjoyed this issue. Nothing world-shattering happened for once, which meant that the characters had a lot more room to breathe than in the previous issues. The focus on Ratchet was nice but we also got some good moments for Magnus, Nautica and several other members of the crew, in addition to another reminder of just how much of a gutless piece of garbage Brianstorm is (seriously, he can't even betray people properly!) Unfortunately, like dalek says it's somewhat undone by the knowledge of where Ratchet, First Aid and Mirage are headed.

The fandom reaction to this one surprised me, though. The histrionics surrounding Getaway are a bit much, with some people practically accusing him of being a child molester trying to "steal" Tailgate from Cyclonus. I miss the days when the shippers in this fandom were a tiny minority of perverts that the majority could just ignore, instead of there being so many of them that their creepy ideas are widespread enough to hijack the discussion of plot points. In the old days, we would have been able to look at this scene for what it (hopefully) is: a shady intelligence agent buttering up a vulnerable person using textbook psychological manipulation techniques for unknown but obviously-evil ends.

(Personally I think Tyrest broke Getaway during the months of brutal interrogation and now he's trying to get revenge on the little runt who foiled his master's plan.)

I'm also stunned by the sheer number of people who are saying that Brainstorm and Rewind did nothing wrong and Whirl is the one who should be on trial for the horrible crime of saving someone's life. He's a freaking hero! And I don't want to hear any "he condemned billions of people to die with his actions!" Because all those people are already dead, and changing history so that they're not is only going to condemn a whole different set of people to die (or, as is the case with many of the book's cast, to have never lived to begin with).

Also, how the hell is Chromedome's word enough to let Rewind wriggle off the hook? They're married, there's no way in hell that Domey can provide a sound medical diagnosis. Shouldn't they have at least sent him to Rung?
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Post by Terome »

Also, how the hell is Chromedome's word enough to let Rewind wriggle off the hook? They're married, there's no way in hell that Domey can provide a sound medical diagnosis. Shouldn't they have at least sent him to Rung?
Yeah, they are playing favourites and making it up as they go along.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Terome wrote:I will concede that it exists but you'll never convince me that it matters.
It matters as a lesson that we must never forget how bad things were and how bad they could get again.
He is, though, the desperate type.
Warcry wrote:When his bar's been so empty for so long, I don't think he's in any position to turn away any customer.
Desperate enough to not want the patrons who were driven out by Brainstorm poisoning them to see Brainstrom just sitting there in the bar surely? It's not even as if he's in there when business is bad.

Brainstorm just being able to go in there for a drink casually just makes all the dirty looks (and occasional gun pulled on him) the non-Decepticon Cyclonus has had to put up with seem even more unfair.

I did love the idea of Megatron's poetry reading driving everyone out. And as a former terrible villain forced into cahoots with the good guys but who really just wants his bad poetry appreciated... He's basically Spike from offa Buffy isn't he?
The fandom reaction to this one surprised me, though. The histrionics surrounding Getaway are a bit much, with some people practically accusing him of being a child molester trying to "steal" Tailgate from Cyclonus. I miss the days when the shippers in this fandom were a tiny minority of perverts that the majority could just ignore, instead of there being so many of them that their creepy ideas are widespread enough to hijack the discussion of plot points. In the old days, we would have been able to look at this scene for what it (hopefully) is: a shady intelligence agent buttering up a vulnerable person using textbook psychological manipulation techniques for unknown but obviously-evil ends.
I don't think finding a creepy sexual element to their scenes is out of whack (though it's clearly not child molestation), even if you go with your reading of it, agents manipulating people do traditioanlly use sex as a tool and with Roberts having brought an (at the very least an analogy of) sexuality to the series it's hard not to read it as a honey trap scene. And the way he's shoving drinks down Tailgate's throat after he wants to stop is pure creepy boyfriend territory.

The debate comes from whether it's a valid story direction. I'd say yes-assuming a decent payoff- but it's being very drawn out.
I'm also stunned by the sheer number of people who are saying that Brainstorm and Rewind did nothing wrong and Whirl is the one who should be on trial for the horrible crime of saving someone's life. He's a freaking hero! And I don't want to hear any "he condemned billions of people to die with his actions!" Because all those people are already dead, and changing history so that they're not is only going to condemn a whole different set of people to die (or, as is the case with many of the book's cast, to have never lived to begin with).
I feel lucky I don't browse the other boards. That's... just stupid. But probably fueled on by the book's attempt to try and make Brainstorm not be a villain here.

I mean, I just don't buy the idea Ratchet uses to bring Nautica (one good point McFeely made on the Underbase podcast, she's actually a quantum engineer. Where was she during the quantum engine based time travel shenanigans? She'd have been a safer pair of hands running it than Perceptor) around that Brainstorm was being "Selfless" in doing something that would kill him as well.

I mean, if he'd gone around the ship with a gun and shot every made to order Autobot aboard in the head before committing suicide, no one would claim that was a selfless act. His plan was basically a really elaborate and over the top way of doing that.
Also, how the hell is Chromedome's word enough to let Rewind wriggle off the hook? They're married, there's no way in hell that Domey can provide a sound medical diagnosis. Shouldn't they have at least sent him to Rung?
See, if his defence had been "this court is biased to hell", it would have worked. But instead, other than briefly trying to get his defence counsel's husband on the dock as well, he just goes for the unrepentant bastard defence. And it works.

Two thoughts:

From the way the comic draws attention to it, how clean Meagtron's room is will turn out to Be Significant.

From the way he's very carefully not named, Chromedome's Decepticon handler will Be Significant.

Why were all the witnesses present for the hearing when none of them were called (or was there a time jump I missed)?

I think the problem is, the season kicked off with a big trial. So the obvious thing of doing a big trial for Brainstorm is avoided, creating a really odd sequence as it tries to try and prevent repetition.

WHEN WILL XAARON SPEAK?
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Post by Auntie Slag »

I loved the artwork in this. What’s best is that it mimics Milne’s style whilst also having a good portion of its own. Its the first time I’ve ever totally taken to an artist on this comic who isn’t Milne or Roche, which in turn might suggest…. might, that its a bit too safe?

I know that sounds stupid, but I really have grown an appreciation for that guy who drew the Rewind eulogy issue. He really knew how to do eyes, angles and intensity.

But in this issue, the art is superb, and it works perfectly with the colourist (la Fuente?). The two seem a perfect fit.

Not much to say about the story, which I hope comes across as very high praise because I think this will be a slow burner that needs a lot re-reading. The only issue I have at the moment is that Ratchet mentions he wants to talk to everyone who is important in his eyes before he leaves, and one of those people is Nautica, who I don’t think he’s ever spoken to, on panel. So I found that a bit jarring.

I liked Brainstorm’s joke about Rung being a Decepticon, because behind every joke there is a half-truth, and I feel that must be especially so when it comes from someone like Brainstorm.

Ten; I never really remember him. Are these Legislators all different sizes? Because the two Skids fought in the second issue were massive. Ten barely comes up to Magnus’ shoulders (his normal shoulders, not the massive white pylons that sit above them).

Very scary as well that Ten has a consciousness, taste, creative streak and whatnot. The way Tyrest went on about them suggested they were little more than computers following an instruction, so where has Ten’s consciousness come from? This feels a bit like when Centurion suddenly acquired his own personality and the Professor Morris angle was done away with.

Really like Warcry’s suggestion of Getaway being a mole for Tyrest. No-one ever questioned his coming aboard the Lost Light, especially once he’d free’d them from the cell. It would certainly be a way for Tyrest to knew everything that’s going on on board. The other thing that interests me about Getaway is that he and Skids seem to have nothing to do with each other. I wouldn’t write that off as effects of the Nudge gun, there’s either something more than that, or we’re due a sequence between the two.
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

WHEN WILL XAARON SPEAK?
If you're very good then MAYBE in issue #80 he'll get a page to himself.
From the way he's very carefully not named, Chromedome's Decepticon handler will Be Significant.
Yeah, that one landed with a bit of a clang. I'm guessing Banzai-tron is the obvious choice but that wouldn't be so interesting. Also, what the hell has Banzai-Tron been up to the whole time? If he's talking to ALL Brainstorm then he must have got out of that ditch that Arcee left him in.
I liked Brainstorm’s joke about Rung being a Decepticon, because behind every joke there is a half-truth, and I feel that must be especially so when it comes from someone like Brainstorm.
Now that you mention it... that is kind of an odd panel...
Really like Warcry’s suggestion of Getaway being a mole for Tyrest. No-one ever questioned his coming aboard the Lost Light, especially once he’d free’d them from the cell. It would certainly be a way for Tyrest to knew everything that’s going on on board. The other thing that interests me about Getaway is that he and Skids seem to have nothing to do with each other. I wouldn’t write that off as effects of the Nudge gun, there’s either something more than that, or we’re due a sequence between the two.
I dunno - it doesn't add up for him to be Tyrest's creature. He nearly had his spark snuffed out by the guy, after all. Something's definitely up between him and Skids though. You're right that there's no evidence yet of them liking each other at all. On the other hand...
The only issue I have at the moment is that Ratchet mentions he wants to talk to everyone who is important in his eyes before he leaves, and one of those people is Nautica, who I don’t think he’s ever spoken to, on panel. So I found that a bit jarring.
Anyone can be friends off-panel!
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Post by Knightdramon »

Took me a while to write in this -after- the issue and expand on some points...

IDW are guilty of doing the same cr@p almost twice in a row---namely, having a series come out [real-world chronologically speaking] months before the actual event is referenced in the comic books. I think this took out most of the reading pleasure you'd otherwise get from this issue.

You don't feel bad for Ratchet, you don't feel anxious for Ratchet, you don't have any impending sense of dread for Ratchet...because you read what he went on to do months ago. Wanna say a year ago, but that's not accurate. Kind of similar situation with Punishment and RID.

Despite this inconsistency I enjoyed the issue. It reads like a quiet-down and recharge your batteries issue, especially after the non-stop onslaught of S2 so far. Barring issue 39 which focused on different bots, issues 28-38 were one big non-stop adventure.

Unfortunately, due to the release schedule, some of the issue's main points were given away earlier this month or even invalidated right away.

First Aid, congrats, you have become the new chief medical officer---only to "spoil" this by sending you back to Cybertron at the beginning of this month to form Defensor.

Mirage, hey, wow, new bar...but whoops, even when the preview was out, you know his bar was out of business thanks to RID coming out earlier.

Something fishy is going on with Getaway indeed---kind of reminded me of BW Dinobot, whispering the right words in the right ears in S1 of BW, only this one is sadly less likeable.

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Post by inflatable dalek »

Terome wrote:If you're very good then MAYBE in issue #80 he'll get a page to himself.
Where, just to confuse things, he'll be written with Nightbeat's actual personality.
I dunno - it doesn't add up for him to be Tyrest's creature. He nearly had his spark snuffed out by the guy, after all. Something's definitely up between him and Skids though. You're right that there's no evidence yet of them liking each other at all. On the other hand...
If he is working for Tyrest they must have been in contact since Remain in Light considering it would make no sense for the whole jailbreak thing to be a set up when Tyrest wasn't expecting to lose.


Anyone can be friends off-panel!
Maybe that's what they were up to during Elegant Chaos?

Or perhaps it was Ratchet acting more for Brainstorm's benefit? After all, everybody loves Brainstorm, the scamp.

Hopefully at some point during his time on Cybertron we'll get a scene of First Aid going "I'm the new CMO!" only for Fixit to go "Errr... no you're not. I am. I've been doing the job for two years. Sod off Mr. Arm".
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

Hopefully at some point during his time on Cybertron we'll get a scene of First Aid going "I'm the new CMO!" only for Fixit to go "Errr... no you're not. I am. I've been doing the job for two years. Sod off Mr. Arm".
First Aid flies sadly back to The Lost Light. Cue Vince Guaraldi Trio - 'Christmas Time Is Here.'
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Post by Auntie Slag »

But an off-panel friendship makes sense because it happens off panel, which is not much good for the reader. I think there must be some other reason why he favours Nautica.

Also liked the bit where Swerve referenced Kup from the '86 animated movie; "A little to the left, a little bit more". Didn't feel any revulsion towards Swerve this time either (the only time I didn't like him was at the Crewditions where he was just being a nonce).

Also, Minimus has red eyes. Did he have red eyes during Remain in Light? I thought only Decepticons had red eyes?

I'd imagine Tyrest would cover all his bases even if the chance of losing is slim. On top of that is the fact that even Tyrest is working for someone else, which has yet to be revealed!
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