Eminem.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:45 pm

Anyone else think JLo is a ho?

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:55 pm

Zombie Dave has a point, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. There is a lot of incredibly intelligent rap and hip hop music out there. The problem is that you will rarely ever see it on MTV or hear it on the radio as you flip through the dial. Listening to The Roots, Jurassic 5, Deltron or old Public Enemy records, you can hear commentary that you'll never get from artists in other genres. To outright dismiss it lyrically or musically just doesn't work for me. I hate country music with a passion, but I can acknowledge that a lot of Hank Williams, Sr.'s songs are among the most heartbreaking, depressing and wonderful songs I've ever heard. (Sr., remember, not the "Monday Night Football" guy...

)

As far as instrumentation goes? Think of it like a collage. Just because the collage was made from a bunch of different pieces from somewhere else doesn't mean that it has to be and less impressive than a straight-up oil painting. Listen to work produced by Dan the Automator and you'll hear seemingly disparate instruments working together. Harpsichords, ukeleles, guitars, trumpets, electronic sounds, heavy bass drums and record scratches can actually sound good together, if you can believe it. Listen to a DJ Shadow record to see the same sort of thing in action. There's no lyrics in the majority of his songs, so if the rapping turns you off, it's a good place to start. And just so you know, The Roots play real instruments on their albums.

I'm not a very big fan of Eminem at all, though I like "Lose Yourself", I can admit that he uses some clever structure in his songs and his delivery is uniquely his own. I just think he needs to expand his range lyrically, because there's only so many times you can say how much better you are than everyone else, and how much your life is messed up. I think the skeletons are safely out of your closet, Marshall. Move on...

Zombie Dave · Post by **Zombie Dave** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:49 am

Hmm... Dj Shadow... Was endtroducing not completely made up of samples?

Just because some rappers give sampling a bad name, doesn't mean you can't have incredibly skilled samplers. Chemical brothers? Prodigy?

And BigM, you may like to give some of Mark B and Blade a listen (if you haven't already).

And I'd like to challenge the people slating american pop... but I really can't be bothered. It seems to me that some people have issues over what a pop record actually consists of. I'll give you a hint.

It doesn't have a whole lot to do with who's singing, instruments used, etc...

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:43 am

Rap is self destructive in the black community. Too many kids are being raised by their icons and not following the examples of their parents or elders. Though this can also affect other races it has an impenetrable vice grip upon the black community. Most blacks now in the USA think it is not cool to succeed and become trapped in a lifestyle they cannot afford. It seems like rap has become an overnight state of mind in the country.

Alpha Trion · Post by **Alpha Trion** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:58 am

Eminem is one of the worst people on this planet. I don't think too highly of people who say things like "Moby's a bald-headed fag" during an interview. He's also the most homophobic person that ever lived.

I hate all this new "glam rap" where they just ramble on about about their 27 cars, huge houses, and "pimping hos". Some older rap like NWA, Public Enemy, and Ice T I can handle because they rap about real problems, not how many cars they bought in the past week.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:16 am

Originally posted by Ultimate Weapon
Rap is self destructive in the black community. Too many kids are being raised by their icons and not following the examples of their parents or elders. Though this can also affect other races it has an impenetrable vice grip upon the black community. Most blacks now in the USA think it is not cool to succeed and become trapped in a lifestyle they cannot afford. It seems like rap has become an overnight state of mind in the country.

Exactly. This is what gangster rap has done to the black community. Gangster rap is what sells, so that's where I find it easy to dismiss the whole genre, because I find the bulk of it is garbage. Yeah, there are clean artists, but they're overshadowed by the thugs. It's an genre dominated mostly by people giving out incredibly self-destructive values that are hurting an entire minority group.

Now, I'm sure some will counter this with rock 'n roll's drug use as a self-destructive message, but where's the majority of whites in America oding on drugs? Also, actual drug-use is just self-destructive to the individual, whereas violence is destructive to the culture. While rock has people who do glamorize violence in their music, it's HARDLY the majority as is the case with rap.

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:20 am

Originally posted by Alpha Trion
He's also the most homophobic person that ever lived.

He still had the 'decency' to perform 'Stan' with Elton John though.

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:01 am

Originally posted by Zombie Dave
Hmm... Dj Shadow... Was endtroducing not completely made up of samples?

Yes, it was, and it's a fact that he's quite proud of. I'm amazed he had so many things going on at once that all worked together as such a cohesive whole... It's a shame The Private Press wasn't nearly as good.

Just because some rappers give sampling a bad name, doesn't mean you can't have incredibly skilled samplers. Chemical brothers? Prodigy?

Definitely. Hopefully artists such as these can show the mainstream exactly how pathetic Sean Combs is. At least try something new instead of simply taking a 3-second cut from an old hit and looping it for 3 minutes? It reminds me of the Saturday Night Live skit from 1998 where he premiers his new song and it's that horrible Aerosmith song from Armageddon with him screaming "Come with me AGAIN!" over it every 5 seconds... Great stuff.

And BigM, you may like to give some of Mark B and Blade a listen (if you haven't already).

I think I've heard Mark B, but not Blade. I'll have to do some file searching.

I also think DJ Cam, DJ Krush, Thievery Corporation and Quantic are great artists who have a similar "feel" to Shadow...

And yes, the "bling-bling cash money" lifestyle has destroyed rap music in the past decade. None of these artists realize where their roots came from. Instead of songs of protest that came from low-income areas and actually had something to say, it's become crap that is created solely to generate money (which, to me, is what 95% of pop music today is anyway.) Hopefully the cycle will burn itself out and the artists who are working under the mainstream radar will get the credit they deserve. But I doubt it.

Say what you will about Eminem, but at least he hasn't been a part of that lifestyle. And his appearance with Elton John only proves that the homophobic thing is a complete act. Of course, 99% of the rap lifestyle has always been a complete act...

Grimlock · Post by **Grimlock** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:18 am

Originally posted by BigMaki
None of these artists realize where their roots came from. Instead of songs of protest that came from low-income areas and actually had something to say, it's become crap that is created solely to generate money

And his appearance with Elton John only proves that the homophobic thing is a complete act.

On Notorious B.I.G.'s 'Life After Death' album, on the first disk there is a hidden track of sorts of him talking for like 15 minutes. Whilst he is talking, he mention's that after 'Ready To Die' come out he become a success and in doing so, had trouble writing material because he usually rapped about being poor but now that he wasn't poor he had to think of new stuff to rap about. Just thought I might mention that.

Yeah I agree with the homophobic thing being an act.

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:23 pm

"Okay then.

That is a completely absurd statement, would you like to name the type of music you like?

I'm not even going to knock it, I would just like to know. So please, name some bands."

To be honest i like lots of different kinds of music, bands like The Whitlems (Tims a god), Crowded House, Reguratator, Metalica, Soulwax, Cake, Ben Folds, Nine Inch Nails, and Smashing Pumpkins. I could go on but we would be here awhile.
Any other questions

_________________________________
to each his own, but this is all mine

Zombie Dave · Post by **Zombie Dave** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:08 am

Okay, you named Soul Wax who do sampling, scratching, and HUMAN ****ING BEATBOX FOR CHRISTS SAKE.

Generalising, you could put all these elements into 'all rap' So what parts of 'all rap' don't you like?

You could probably put some of their stuff directly in a rap genre for ****s sake.

So this is why I wanted to know what you like, cause I hoped with a bit of luck you'd contradict yourself.

Prowl? · Post by **Prowl?** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:53 am

I'd rather listen to eminem any day than any of that garbage pop that gets played over and over and over and over......

seriously, if i hear that Nelly/kelly track one more time, I'm gonna go and introduce the DJ who played it to the curb, courtesy of my fist......

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 3:18 pm

I am pretty sure that we are talking about two different bands, because i have never heard Soulwax do that. The band i refer to plays songs such as "much against everyone’s advice" and "when logics die". SOULWAX is a Belgian rock band evolving around two young brothers: singer Stephen and guitarist David Dewaele.
If this is the band you speak of then tell me the songs that they use samples.

______________________________
Goodies, goodie, goodie, yum, yum

Zombie Dave · Post by **Zombie Dave** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 3:57 pm

No, we are talking about the same band. Do they not scratch and do beat box on 'too many dj's'?

Anyway, they have released many bootlegs on white labels under a different name to Soulwax.

What exactly would you class 'black street' as? they certainly rap.

Because they've made bootlegs sampling them. they're very, very good at it actually.

Just looked into my bootleg folder, found severel by Soul Wax.

Jeepers, several of them involve destiny's child. Still like Soul Wax?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:07 pm

See, thing is, I just don't like rap/hip-hop. But I wouldn't write it off as bad music. Because I don't like the style means I'm not really equipped to comment.... I mean, I wouldn't call opera ****, just because I don't like opera singing... Techno's not my scene, so I'm not really equipped to comment on how good any individual artists are... if ya get what I mean...

Zombie Dave · Post by **Zombie Dave** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:07 pm

Come on, I can see you sitting at the board. Answer me.

Do you still think SW are good, now you know they sample, etc, and appear to be hip hop fans, having spliced together several hip hop songs themselves.

Still, I needed a timely reminder that I had these songs. They fabby.

I like the way you work it, no diggity, I like to bag it up...

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:18 pm

Soulwax "to many dj's" the title says it all. As for all of that other stuff i have never heard of it, all i have heard from them is much against everyone's advice the Album. My best friend lent it to me the other week and i took to it.

I can't help finding rap ****, it's not my fault the music and lyrics are that bad. To make myself completely clear, i can't stand it i am into real music, ac/dc, rolling stones and so forth, no pop **** either.

Zombie Dave · Post by **Zombie Dave** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:23 pm

Hmm. I think you're pretty ignorant.

And what is 'real music' when it's at home?

Pretention ahoy?

And how can a hip hop artist rapping about his experiences be anything other than real anyway?

News to you, rolling stones are pop.

godzilla · Post by **godzilla** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:46 pm

News to you, rolling stones are pop

Say that face to face to a real Stones fan and see how it works out.

I am not ignorant i just like what i like and don't what i don't. Can you say that you like at least one song from every single music genre in the world? You must hate some form of music, if you can't then good for you!

Sorry about the "real music" bit but i grew up with rock and roll, you know instruments and all

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 5:16 pm

I'm a big Stones fan, and they were pop. Okay, slightly naughty pop as opposed to the Beatles, but in the 60s at least they meet every criterion for being a pop band. Pop's a label, not a genre...