Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Warcry
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Tantrum wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:07 am I just checked my Overlord, and both Prime Masters slid out OK. Maybe ones with different shaped "faces" are more likely to get stuck.
I cannot remember which ones I used, but the fit is tight enough that having slightly thicker paint, or being a fraction of a millimetre wider, is probably all it takes. I must have heard reports of other people getting them stuck, though. I remember kicking myself when it happened because I knew it might and I tried anyway.
Tantrum wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:07 amThey also got in dozens of derpy plush figures of TFs for $10 each.

...

We complain about distribution issues, and wonder what stops Hasbro from getting TFs into stores. But, they manage to get these things out? I'd just been there a week and a half prior and neither these nor the Earthrise stuff was there. So, Walmart just got in a bunch of new TF merch, and none of it was Legacy or SS.
I've seen these as well. They look awful! I'd totally buy a cute little plush Soundwave or whoever if it was a normal likeness, but I'm not sure who the circuit pattern stuff is going to appeal to. I don't think Hasbro makes stuff like this themselves, though. Usually it's licensed out to a third party, which would explain why the stock actually exists and appears on store shelves.

I feel like the price tag is probably the biggest reason Walmart stocked it so heavily. Regular TF stuff is getting so expensive that their algorithms probably flag it as something to order in lower volumes. As in, since Deluxes now cost as much or more than Voyagers used to, their systems probably tell them to order as many cases as they used to order of Voyagers, and so on with every other price point.
Tantrum wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:07 amI live in RI, am close to MA, and often visit my parents in NH. That's 3 states with I think 13 Walmarts and Targets that I check at least somewhat regularly, and I still have trouble finding what I want. It's gotten much worse with Legacy. I cut way back on shopping trips before I got vaccinated, and still found the figures I wanted, just not as quickly. Now, months go by and I don't see anything new.
I know what you mean. I can actually tell you exactly which Legacy toys I've seen at retail, where and when -- because I almost never saw any of them more than once. The local Walmart had a couple Bulkheads for a couple weeks, and a Laser Prime once. I saw Skids there twice, Drag Strip once. They had the first wave of Cores, but after a week or two it was just a couple Iguanuses for another month or two. I found a Kickback at a Gamestop, twice I think. Around Christmas, that same store had a Pointblank and...I think it was Skullgrin, as well? I want to say I also saw a Blitzwing, once...that would have been at a Walmart too. If we count exclusives, the local Walmart got a case or two of their Legacy BW repaints, almost a year after everywhere else. I think they still had one or two Buzz Saws left the last time I was there? And they had a few Velocitron Overrides and Haulers.

That's it. An entire year's worth of toy sightings in one paragraph. It actually makes me nostalgic for the days of "200 cases of wave 1 that never sells". At least there was something on the shelves then, even if I already had it!
Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 am Yep, all driven by shareholders and being legally required to be evil and drive growth at all costs. Diversification and over-extension has killed other multinationals.
This generation's business leaders seems to have decided that burning a company down for a good quarterly report is the way to do things, yes. But I'd argue that they're actually breaching their fiduciary duties when they do it. Executives are legally required to act in the best interests of their shareholders, and destroying the long-term value of their investments for short-term gains absolutely does not do that. It's a perversion of how a healthy economy is supposed to work, but the executive class have managed to convince enough people that it's "supposed" to be like this. In a healthy system, anyone who tried to run a company like that would get slapped with billion-dollar lawsuits from the owners they were screwing over.

But I could rant about that all day, so I'll stop now.
Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 amBeen that way over here for a long time. Probably a decade?
Longer, surely? The prices in the UK seemed absurd to me 20+ years ago when I first started posting here and saw how much you folks were being charged compared to prices here.
Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 am Maybe unscrew the PM back plates and leave those in the chest rather than the whole mini figure?
I did consider doing that, and maybe even gluing them in. But I like the idea of them being able to turn into little robots still. I'd imagine that some of the ones I've got would fit, if I really wanted to do it. It's just a matter of finding the right ones.

[EDIT: Actually, I forgot...you can't unscrew the PMs because Hasbro switched from screws to pins between TR and POTP.]
Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 amAs of a few days ago it was an insulting bluff from their PR department.
It seems like something changed pretty drastically yesterday. Or at least that's how the reports are framing it. From what I've seen, the community seems to be treating it as an unqualified win.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/01/ ... n-license/

I'm still fully convinced that Hasbro will put a new coat of paint on the idea and try to slip it through again in a year or two once the furor has calmed down, though.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Re: OGL, probably with future management and a future D&D version, yeah. We've been here before with 4E. I wouldn't fancy being Kyle, the relatively new guy (social media guy?) they seem to be trying to push out for interviews/slaughter according to this within the last few hours --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bplr4dBwUUE
Warcry wrote:Actually, I forgot...you can't unscrew the PMs because Hasbro switched from screws to pins between TR and POTP
You can tell how much I bothered to look at what was inside the pretender shells. Should still be possible to get them off, but recasting or 3D printing alternatives might be better in that case.

The gap between Deluxe and Voyager prices for a long time got closer together, or at least the latter was still more of an impulse buy price, so that Voyagers felt like much better value.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Having just seen new Earthspark stuff at my local Walmart, I figured I'd spend the afternoon hitting other stores to see if they'd also gotten new stuff in, and if I'd want any of it. 2 Walmarts, 2 Targets, a comic shop, Gamestop, Marshall's, TJ Maxx, Best Buy, Kohl's, and Ollie's and nothing. One Walmart had the same Earthspark stuff I'd seen locally, just less of it. One Target hardly had anything TF at all, just Core Blue Rumble and Pink Bee.
Warcry wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:19 pmI've seen these as well. They look awful! I'd totally buy a cute little plush Soundwave or whoever if it was a normal likeness, but I'm not sure who the circuit pattern stuff is going to appeal to. I don't think Hasbro makes stuff like this themselves, though. Usually it's licensed out to a third party, which would explain why the stock actually exists and appears on store shelves.

I feel like the price tag is probably the biggest reason Walmart stocked it so heavily. Regular TF stuff is getting so expensive that their algorithms probably flag it as something to order in lower volumes. As in, since Deluxes now cost as much or more than Voyagers used to, their systems probably tell them to order as many cases as they used to order of Voyagers, and so on with every other price point.
Oh, yeah, the Walmart with the Earthspark stuff also had these. I only noticed Optimus, Meg, and Bee. I haven't seen what you're saying about ordering fewer Deluxes, though. Here, we're still at the point where they over order wave 1 and it sits there forever. I saw Skids and the like on pegs today at regular price. The exclusive beast repaints have been marked down to $17 at least.

You're right about the plushies. They could've done normal versions of the characters and sold OK. The circuit designs make a niche product even nichier. But I wouldn't say these 3rd party developers have outdone Hasbro in terms of getting toys on shelves. It looks like Walmart just over ordered wave 1 of these things, too.
Warcry wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:19 pm
Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:26 am Yep, all driven by shareholders and being legally required to be evil and drive growth at all costs. Diversification and over-extension has killed other multinationals.
This generation's business leaders seems to have decided that burning a company down for a good quarterly report is the way to do things, yes. But I'd argue that they're actually breaching their fiduciary duties when they do it. Executives are legally required to act in the best interests of their shareholders, and destroying the long-term value of their investments for short-term gains absolutely does not do that. It's a perversion of how a healthy economy is supposed to work, but the executive class have managed to convince enough people that it's "supposed" to be like this. In a healthy system, anyone who tried to run a company like that would get slapped with billion-dollar lawsuits from the owners they were screwing over.
The thing is, the company has to have perpetual growth for their stock to make sense as an investment. If I buy stock in a company doing $X amount of business, and years later it's still doing $X amount of business (adjusted for inflation), my share of the company will be worth the same. My stock will sell for the same price I bought it at, and I won't make any money.

Why invest if the best case scenario is break even, and there's a chance I could lose money? If the company pays dividends, that can work. I buy stock for $X, it pays me a certain amount every year, until I sell it for $X. Whatever I've made in dividends is profit, justifying my risk in investing in the company.

Without dividends, stocks are a Ponzi scheme where the physical limitations of growing a business, and the finite amount of stock available at any given time, limit the growth of the scam to something that appears sustainable for a while. This may be why tech stocks can crash and burn so quickly. When all it takes to reach new customers is getting them to download an app, you reach the limit of your market pretty quickly. Then, what do you have to offer new investors? And without new investors to buy stock, who do your old investors sell their stock to?


I remember reading about Netflix not adding any new subscribers, even losing a small amount due to sanctions against Russia. Investors freaked out. The thing is, Netflix had around 220 million subscribers at that point. How big do they expect that to grow? There's 8 billion people on the planet, so around 1/36 of humanity has a Netflix subscription.

That 8 billion includes people without electricity, people with electricity but no broadband, those deemed mentally unfit to handle their own affairs, and tiny, tiny babies. There is a hard limit on how many people exist who can give Netflix money. Those who cohabitate are likely to share a single account. What happens when the upper limit is reached?

Answering that question is just speculation, and even more off topic than the paragraphs above it, so it's probably best not to dwell on it. Getting back to Transformers, I spent my afternoon trying to give Hasbro my money and failed. If Hasbro wants to meet their growth targets, maybe they should do something about that.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Tantrum wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:13 am So, Hasbro's given up on solving the problems in their toy distribution business, and decided to branch out into other business they have even less idea how to run?
I love this observation.

I also wonder how much of their explanations are over simplified or actual gaslighting. Case in point, I actually found that cryptid of artificial scarcity Cosmos a couple of days ago. Given that the evergreen excuse not to do things is the cost of mold production, making an entire new tooling for a shortpacked store exclusive seems... problematic? Disingenuous?

I'm not arguing that their current financial problems are a case of deliberate malfeasance or anything, but the explanations on the other side don't inspire trust that they know why they're in the situation they're in. As has been said, they make what are ultimately luxury products. If, as Tantrum observed, they make it difficult for the people that want to give them money to do so, then inflation and video games are just a weak deflection.

It could also be that they're still paying off that Hub fiasco.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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I went through the Newest Acq thread to see how many TFs I actually bought in 2022. It was over 50, so on average, 1 a week. I thought maybe I was being too pessimistic about distribution if I'm finding that many figures. Checking again, everything between Legacy Soundwave (25 Sep) and Velocitron Crasher (17 Dec) was either TJ Maxx, clearance, or 2nd hand from a comic shop. Regular retail figures were bought in spring/summer. So, distribution seems to have gotten worse even just this year.

This has got to be especially bad for anyone trying to collect Legacy Menasor. This may explain why I've seen 3 used Dragstrips at a comic chop, the one I bought months ago and two yesterday. People who were planning on building Menasor may be giving up. Getting all the members of a team was difficult enough during Prime Wars, when they'd be split across 2 waves at most. Finding all 4 waves looks to be a fool's errand.

This wouldn't be so bad if this were a Scramble City type combiner, where you could double up on a mold if you were a figure short. But, you can't even put the black Drapstrip repaint on Menasor's other arm. Sure, you can use two Wildriders if you can't find a Breakdown. But, who wants to buy two of the same figure to complete the legs of a 1-armed gestalt?

I didn't even try collecting Seacons because they were released as 3 expensive 2-packs. If I'd missed one, I'd be paying double regular price for retools that couldn't serve their intended purpose. Someone at Hasbro must've decided this made more sense than a box set of all 6. Just like someone at Hasbro decided giving Walmart and Target different exclusive repaints of the same bugs available at regular retail was a good idea. Who doesn't want 3 different colors of BW Scorponok? You can't expect these people to waste their time getting Legacy wave 2 on the shelves when they could be coming up with more great ideas like these.

Hasbro's TF distribution team needs to work harder, not smarter.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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If Dragstrip wasn't such a decent figure by itself, I'd see that more... my guess is lots of people will have given up on the idea of getting the whole team when they saw the Motormaster sticker, and sales of that and the other three limbs will suffer. MM getting rapidly remaindered to half price may not sit well with folk who paid full either, but I'm not sure many would ditch DS as a standalone.

There's definitely something in the failure to take money when offered angle... at the time I was interested in two sets of Seacons before the overpricing and limited release became apparent. Not sure what the point of jacking the price up that far on things that would otherwise sell is, particularly after investing in so much new tooling, and can't imagine that they moved a huge number of sets... possibly more of the five figure repaint set in fact, which got marked down by retailers here. As it was I lucked into a cheap Snaptrap that was going for charity, which was the character I most wanted, and guess the team will get bootlegged at some point if not already.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Denyer wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:59 pm You can tell how much I bothered to look at what was inside the pretender shells. Should still be possible to get them off, but recasting or 3D printing alternatives might be better in that case.
I don't think I ever noticed myself, I just remembered hearing people gripe that it made customs harder. If the pics I found on Google are accurate, it's not even all of them that are pinned, just some. Landmine is the only one of mine that I could find and he uses a screw.
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 amMarshall's
Do those have a proper toy section in the US? The ones up here have about fifteen feet of shelf space, maybe twenty, filled with nothing but stuff that the Walmart across the street couldn't sell last year. Their TF section for the longest time has been nothing but eight or so reissue Cheetors and Rattraps.
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 amI haven't seen what you're saying about ordering fewer Deluxes, though. Here, we're still at the point where they over order wave 1 and it sits there forever. I saw Skids and the like on pegs today at regular price. The exclusive beast repaints have been marked down to $17 at least.
Stores here never bring in more than a case of Deluxes at a time, as far as I can tell. Even when they've way more shelf space set aside, like Toys'R'Us...they'll have three feet of shelf space allotted to Generations Deluxes, set up so you can stack them five or six deep, but only have six or eight figures on the shelves most of the time. Walmart has cut their space back recently, but for the longest time they'd have three or four pegs and never more than a couple figures in stock. Generally, that case of Deluxes sells through pretty quickly and then the shelves are empty again for a month. Whether that's on the stores not ordering or Hasbro not getting the figures to them, though, who knows?

Toys'R'Us are still pretty likely to get clogged up with wave 1 Voyagers, or at least they were back before they raised their prices to 25% above MSRP...I'm not sure if I even went inside a TRU once last year?
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 amWhy invest if the best case scenario is break even, and there's a chance I could lose money? If the company pays dividends, that can work. I buy stock for $X, it pays me a certain amount every year, until I sell it for $X. Whatever I've made in dividends is profit, justifying my risk in investing in the company.
In years past, this was exactly why you'd buy stock in a company like Hasbro! Low interest rates (among other things) have really killed the distinction between growth stocks and dividend stocks, though.
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 amI remember reading about Netflix not adding any new subscribers, even losing a small amount due to sanctions against Russia. Investors freaked out. The thing is, Netflix had around 220 million subscribers at that point. How big do they expect that to grow? There's 8 billion people on the planet, so around 1/36 of humanity has a Netflix subscription.
Netflix is a interesting case to me. A decade ago they'd cut cheques to companies like Disney or Universal or whoever to stream their libraries of old stuff, and as long as their subscriber revenue outpaced the licensing fees they were paying out they were golden. Today, all of those deep video libraries have cut ties and set up their own subscription services, and Netflix has a ton more overhead trying to produce their own movies and TV shows to fill the void. And you'd have to imagine that producing even a shitty Netflix series from scratch will cost a ton more than licensing a bunch of shows from the 80s and 90s. So I can understand why they are worried!
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:37 amAnswering that question is just speculation, and even more off topic than the paragraphs above it, so it's probably best not to dwell on it. Getting back to Transformers, I spent my afternoon trying to give Hasbro my money and failed. If Hasbro wants to meet their growth targets, maybe they should do something about that.
I did a bit more reading into their financials and I was surprised to discover that their action figure division has actually been losing money lately in spite of all the price hikes. Actually getting those figures into places where they can be bought would have to help, right?
Clay wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:48 am I also wonder how much of their explanations are over simplified or actual gaslighting. Case in point, I actually found that cryptid of artificial scarcity Cosmos a couple of days ago. Given that the evergreen excuse not to do things is the cost of mold production, making an entire new tooling for a shortpacked store exclusive seems... problematic? Disingenuous?
Dumbed-down, at the very least. But understandably so, to some degree. If I had to addend fan conventions for my job and spent the day fielding questions with incredibly complicated answers that probably touched on confidential business secrets, I would also answer those questions with the most basic, simplified "answer" that I could get away with. And if the people answering the questions are PR types and not production experts, that dumbed-down answer might be the extent of their own knowledge of things.

Cosmos, like Bumblebee and Soundwave before him, was a really baffling call. It doesn't seem like anyone in the decision-making chain comprehended that these toys would be highly sought after. I can understand Walmart wanting desirable characters in their exclusive line, since that gets people coming in the doors. But if they thought Cosmos was that figure they would have asked Hasbro to include more in the case pack so buyers actually looked for him at Walmart shelves instead of on eBay. Whoever planned the line out clearly thought Cosmos would be less appealing than Burnout or Road Rage, which only makes any sense at all if they still thought he was going to be a retool of Buzzworthy Cybertronian Bumblebee when they set the case assortment.
Clay wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:48 am It could also be that they're still paying off that Hub fiasco.
That, and eOne. Which they are already trying to sell, after realizing they have no idea what to do with a movie studio.
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:21 pmI went through the Newest Acq thread to see how many TFs I actually bought in 2022. It was over 50, so on average, 1 a week. I thought maybe I was being too pessimistic about distribution if I'm finding that many figures. Checking again, everything between Legacy Soundwave (25 Sep) and Velocitron Crasher (17 Dec) was either TJ Maxx, clearance, or 2nd hand from a comic shop. Regular retail figures were bought in spring/summer. So, distribution seems to have gotten worse even just this year.
I bought 29 Transformers last year. I think six of those were bought at retail stores? Flipping back five, six years ago it looks like I bought 60% to 75% of my toys at retail and I could have gotten most of my online purchases in-person if I'd really wanted to. POTP is the first line that I can remember where I had to order stuff online to get a sizable chunk of what I wanted, and not just the odd late-line figure that saw poor distribution. I clearly remember thinking how out-of-the-ordinary it was that I had to find TR Slugslinger online because he never appeared in stores here. I think Misfire and Twin Twist were the impossible ones to find in the US?
Tantrum wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:21 pmThis has got to be especially bad for anyone trying to collect Legacy Menasor.
I have seen exactly one Stunticon on store shelves over the last year, just one. And I only saw that one because someone had hidden it in the stuffed animal aisle. If I didn't follow Transformers news online I could plausibly have gone all of 2022 without even realizing there was a Legacy Menasor.

That seems like a problem.
Denyer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:30 pmguess the team will get bootlegged at some point if not already.
If this happens, somebody let me know! I would absolutely be onboard with a cheap set of Seacons but the asking price for a bunch of half-assed retools of mediocre POTP molds was hilarious.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Makes sense; has there been any intimation that Cosmos as a Bumblesaucer retool was the original plan? It seems easily doable with that mould as well.

I actually like the modern Seacon designs, but then I like the lurid chunky half-arsed-ness of the originals. Just not at that price.

In the UK, Smyths seems to have the retail market sewn up and (with TFs at least) to get them stocked -- they prioritise in-store stock to the extent it's usually impossible to order stuff for delivery online, since it's all been moved from their warehouses to outlets. And online, at least for initial release and anything that warms warehouse shelves, Amazon has the general non-specialist market. The only other toy store chain I can think of is The Entertainer, which massively over-orders and lets it sit around until finally clearanced (so very much like TRU used to be) -- they're still trying to get rid of the X-Men jet for something like twenty quid, and it was the same with some movie toys.

There are signs that Amazon UK are having problems with distribution too. Their store seems automatically set up to factor in EU and US sources if something passes release date and stays unavailable. And that's happened with figures like Bomb-Burst and current wave MOTU (Origins I'm pretty positive will collapse as a toy line soon because the Mattel RRP -- which was already creeping up -- appears to have shot by a further 30% or so into the same ball park as the 7" Masterverse figure, and there's no way it's a kid line at those prices). By the time "normal" stock becomes available, I think Amazon systems have already assessed the products as not selling.
Warcry wrote:I was surprised to discover that their action figure division has actually been losing money lately in spite of all the price hikes.
Price of materials/labour or costs of shipping with container shortages, or both, do you know?

It's been the case for a long time that only economies of scale enable retail action figure lines, and taking that out of the equation gets you something closer to Super7 short run collectible prices.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:47 pm Makes sense; has there been any intimation that Cosmos as a Bumblesaucer retool was the original plan? It seems easily doable with that mould as well.
They actually released pics of the design sketches for the retool and even what looks like a partial prototype of the thing. I like it significantly more than what they actually released, but significantly less than the previous two cracks at reinventing the character. It would have attracted some buys from people who didn't want to pay aftermarket prices for the Universe or T30 Cosmoses, but probably still wouldn't have satisfied fans who wanted a "proper" Cosmos to go along with the more 80s-accurate toys coming out these days. I suppose they could have released the retool as a store exclusive now and the new-mold Cosmos in a couple years' time, but then they'd get shat on for that too like I shat on them for the Earthrise and SS86 Ironhides...

I'm sure there's plenty of "no, think of the budget" reasons not to, but as a fan the best solution would probably have been to swap the new Cosmos into the main line and dump Crankcase -- a redeco so halfhearted that even I, an avowed 1988 Decepticon fanboy, am not worked up about finding one -- into Velocitron as the shortpacked figure.
Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:47 pmI actually like the modern Seacon designs, but then I like the lurid chunky half-arsed-ness of the originals. Just not at that price.
The new Seacons do hit the right level of stupid-looking to be charming. But the set is made from POTP molds at the end of the day, the actual toys are still going to be pretty blah no matter how much glorious teal and pink and mauve they slap on. But if they'd been retail releases (at POTP-era prices) I may have bought them just to have that glorious riot of colours.
Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:47 pm Price of materials/labour or costs of shipping with container shortages, or both, do you know?
Sad to say that I didn't read past the headline on that one, and I can't find a good source breaking it down now. :( Their official reports don't seem to break down "consumer products" into smaller segments. I did see a ton of articles talking about hundreds of millions lost to supply chain issues though, which I'd imagine is taking a huge bite of that.

I'd guess that the availability of containers was an even bigger issue than the cost. Adding a couple bucks to your cost to market sucks but not being able to get the stuff to market at all is worse. I wonder if the fire sale you're seeing in the UK at Game right now is stuff that retailers ordered for the Christmas rush, didn't arrive in time and the retailers rejected the shipments when it showed up in January. If that's what's happening, that would be a huge amount of red ink on the balance sheet.
Denyer wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:47 pmIt's been the case for a long time that only economies of scale enable retail action figure lines, and taking that out of the equation gets you something closer to Super7 short run collectible prices.
Isn't that already happening anyway? I'm thinking of third-party Transformers specifically, and it seems like the price gap has narrowed a whole lot over the last decade. In the MP space particularly, it seems like the third-party options are now cheaper than official ones.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Denyer wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:30 pmIf Dragstrip wasn't such a decent figure by itself, I'd see that more... my guess is lots of people will have given up on the idea of getting the whole team when they saw the Motormaster sticker, and sales of that and the other three limbs will suffer. MM getting rapidly remaindered to half price may not sit well with folk who paid full either, but I'm not sure many would ditch DS as a standalone.
I agree that Dragstrip is a great stand alone figure. I'm happy to have him even though I have no intention of completing Legacy Menasor. And yet, at least 3 people in/around the small town where this comic shop is decided to ditch a figure they just got this year. It seems there are some people who are into TFs enough to want Legacy Menasor, yet can't appreciate Dragstrip on his own merits. I kind of feel sorry for them. Or, maybe they just went with the G2 deco that started showing up at Walmart.

Speaking of Walmart exclusives, their Legacy Deluxes have been: Waspinator redeco, Scorponok redeco, Cheetor redeco, Skidz redeco, Blurr retool, Arcee redeco, Sideswipe redeco, Mirage retool, Dragstrip redeco, and one new mold of a character people actually know. Guess which one got shortpacked. I think Clampdown was also 1 per case in Velocitron wave 1, but one showed up with Crasher and Dragstrip, so I think he was repacked in wave 2.

Marshall's doesn't have a huge toy section. Typically there's a few 15-20 foot aisles along one edge of the store, as well as the shelves along that part of that edge. Same with TJ Maxx, which is owned by the same company. I don't know if I'd ever go out of my way to check one for TFs, but they're usually in a plaza with another store I'm interested in.

The TR Misfire, Twintwist, Windblade wave hardly showed up in the US. I think I saw (new) Misfire once in a comic shop back then. That was it until I saw (used) Windblade at a different comic shop earlier this year. Slugslinger was almost as bad. I saw one Walmart with maybe 16 of them once, but that was it.

The added cost for the Seacons wouldn't have discouraged me if it was, "pay $200 for this box set containing what should be 5 $17 Deluxes and a $25 Voyager". That's what I paid for UW Computron, and that's only 5 figures. But, I wasn't going to try to do 3 separate buys of under produced, overpriced figures.

I wonder how well studios trying be their own Netflix is going to work out. WB just cut a bunch of shows, including some that had filmed but not yet aired, because it apparently made financial sense to write them off as losses for tax purposes rather than air them and pay residuals. If I remember correctly, when home internet first became a thing, ISPs like AOL, Prodigy, and Compuserve all tried to have their own exclusive content.

That fizzled out because no one was going to pay for multiple ISPs just to see all the content. People will pay for a few streaming services, though, so maybe it'll work out. It's like a tech version of the old studio system, where the companies making movies would also control distribution and theaters. Companies can't be happy making money doing their part of the process well. They have to try to control the whole process, even if they can't do it well.

It's like Walmart and TFs (hey! we're back on topic!). They not only have over a dozen Legacy exclusives, they also have Vintage G1 and Beast Wars reissues, and R.E.D. figures. It's not enough for Walmart to be one of the only places in town to buy TFs. They have to basically have an entire exclusive multi-line Transformers franchise that people can't get anywhere else.

Of course, if the exclusives are mostly repaints, reissues, and niche figures that are likely to shelfwarm, crowding out figures people might actually want to buy, who cares? The worst that can happen is TFs no longer move enough product to be profitable and the franchise ends. But that just means there's one less type of product that people can buy somewhere other than Walmart.

After all, Target has their own exclusives, and people looking for them might by other things in Target, rather than Walmart, and we can't have that.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

Post by Denyer »

Question to throw in -- why does "small" or "combiner part" have to equal shit design? Are kids interested in Legacy Core Dinobots or is it just another strange self-harm thing on Hasbro's part? https://twitter.com/Daim_Choc/status/16 ... 4004737024
Warcry wrote:Crankcase -- a redeco so halfhearted that even I, an avowed 1988 Decepticon fanboy, am not worked up about finding one -- into Velocitron as the shortpacked figure.
Mmm. At least if they'd done flip out guns, not even necessarily spring loaded (although that's not a big ask) I'd have had some interest... although much more if they'd a) done Windsweeper, and b) kept flip out guns in the mix.
Warcry wrote:I wonder if the fire sale you're seeing in the UK at Game right now is stuff that retailers ordered for the Christmas rush, didn't arrive in time and the retailers rejected the shipments when it showed up in January. If that's what's happening, that would be a huge amount of red ink on the balance sheet.
I think the only retailers that might have bitten would have been Smyths or The Entertainer, so it's possible but I think it's more likely to be an effect of US retailers being in that position and the stock being sent over here instead.
Warcry wrote:Isn't that already happening anyway? I'm thinking of third-party Transformers specifically, and it seems like the price gap has narrowed a whole lot over the last decade. In the MP space particularly, it seems like the third-party options are now cheaper than official ones.
Thanks to Takara speculating, yep. But even at the cheaper end most of the 3P stuff I collected tended to be equivalent to two or three official figures (i.e. quite reasonable all things considered, and better value than if say Super7 had been making articulated many-parted toys). Hasbro is inflating prices but the quality just isn't as nice as decent 3P stuff -- less hollowness, in particular. And occasional QC issues notwithstanding.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Tantrum wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:32 am The TR Misfire, Twintwist, Windblade wave hardly showed up in the US. I think I saw (new) Misfire once in a comic shop back then. That was it until I saw (used) Windblade at a different comic shop earlier this year. Slugslinger was almost as bad. I saw one Walmart with maybe 16 of them once, but that was it.
It's crazy to me that the Misfire wave was so rare in the US. It hung around for so long in my area that I bought a spare Misfire to keep sealed just because I could. I kept meaning to customize it but I never did and apparently it's worth $200 or something silly now? I think it's sitting in a bag under my kitchen sink. :lol:

My local TRU got one case of the Slugslinger wave, but of course the three Slugslingers sold right away and the repacked Kups, Hot Rods and Hardheads didn't, so they never re-ordered. But I was able to import one from the US for...well, less than today's Deluxe MSRP, anyway, so he must have been more common elsewhere.
Tantrum wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:32 amI wonder how well studios trying be their own Netflix is going to work out.
Badly, is my guess. Netflix's original success came from aggregating so much content under one roof. Disney could pull out and do their own thing because they have such a ridiculous swath of content that it's actually worth subscribing. Paramount or WB or whatever? Nah, I'm good.
Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:02 pm Question to throw in -- why does "small" or "combiner part" have to equal shit design? Are kids interested in Legacy Core Dinobots or is it just another strange self-harm thing on Hasbro's part? https://twitter.com/Daim_Choc/status/16 ... 4004737024
It doesn't, and those Core Dinobots are a joke. They look even worse when you compare them to Bomb-Burst or Kingdom Rattrap or whatever and see that they can make very good toys at that size. Trying to cram in "combiner" into something two and a half inches or whatever tall was obviously a bridge too far, and Hasbro always seem to trip over themselves with this. Tiny Dinobots probably don't need to combine to be appealing, just like Micromasters probably didn't need to turn into guns, just like combiner hands probably didn't need to be guns and feet too. It's not that these were inherently bad ideas but obviously there were issues in the execution and someone just shrugged and said "good enough".
Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:02 pmMmm. At least if they'd done flip out guns, not even necessarily spring loaded (although that's not a big ask) I'd have had some interest... although much more if they'd a) done Windsweeper, and b) kept flip out guns in the mix.
Windsweeper seems like a pretty safe bet from Needlenose. Not only do they have similar silhouettes and transformations, but a lot of the molded detail is similar between the two. New head, new wings, replace the Targetmasters with flip-out guns that peg onto the forearms...a new chest and thrusters on the shoulders if they feel really extravagant.

Crankcase is just sad. I'd say it feels like a 2008-style name-slap, but they did a name-slap in 2008 and it had the flip-out guns! I'm actually surprised that something so lazy made the cut for the main line in this day and age, when we get unique, painstakingly accurate molds for equally out-there choices like Bomb-Burst or Needlenose or Spinister or a freaking Allicon. Luckily Crankcase is the loser Triggercon, so it's no great loss for anyone but Roberts fans.

Hopefully they do a better job when they get around to Ruckus, he's the one I randomly decided was "the cool one" when I was ten years old and reading my friend's Matrix Quest comics...
Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:02 pm Thanks to Takara speculating, yep. But even at the cheaper end most of the 3P stuff I collected tended to be equivalent to two or three official figures (i.e. quite reasonable all things considered, and better value than if say Super7 had been making articulated many-parted toys). Hasbro is inflating prices but the quality just isn't as nice as decent 3P stuff -- less hollowness, in particular. And occasional QC issues notwithstanding.
I understand why they don't, but I wish third-party companies would make more main-line scaled figures. I don't know how in the world people find room for so many MP-scaled toys, and the Legends-scaled stuff is cute but not exactly fiddle-friendly in the way a nice Deluxe or Voyager is.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Denyer wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:02 pm Question to throw in -- why does "small" or "combiner part" have to equal shit design? Are kids interested in Legacy Core Dinobots or is it just another strange self-harm thing on Hasbro's part?
People seem to be assuming that these will be redone as Dinoking, since that also has a triceratops chest. And since Dinoking was originally a Monstructor redo, Hasbro may rework Slug (formerly Slag) into Slog. Of course, if they plan to sell this set 3 times, they probably should've done it better.

The first two weren't great, but I could see the compromises as being needed for the 3 modes in a small size. But, Grimlock's lower legs seem way too big in all 3 modes. It's like Hasbro saw the chunky leg tail of PotP Grimlock and decided that was a feature, not a bug.

I thought the new Crankcase did have flip out shoulder cannons, they were just undersized. I was thinking of picking that guy up since I had the original as a kid and like Legacy Skidz. In fact, I was planning to skip Skidz and just get Crankcase. But, I got a great deal on Skidz earlier this year. Given how distribution has gotten even worse since then, I'm glad I got this version of the mold because I can't count on finding Crankcase.

According to tfwiki, T30 Cosmos was rereleased in TR because the T30 release didn't reach enough people. So, they had experience underestimating Cosmos' popularity, and made the same mistake this go round.

I agree than making Crankcase the shortpacked Velocitron exclusive and Cosmos the mainline figure would've made more sense. But, there's already a Skidz redo in Velocitron. It's some black, probably Diaclone, version that I can't recall the name of even though it's often one of the only figures on the pegs when I go to Walmart.


Cable used to be like wanting a burger, fries, and shake, but the only restaurant in town is an all you can buffet that charges enough to cover all the food you don't want. Now, with so many streaming services, it like one restaurant selling a burger/nuggets/soda value meal, another selling fish & chips, and a Dairy Queen, and you go to all 3. You're still paying for content you don't want, maybe it's cheaper, but it's less convenient.

I gave up on cable entirely, and don't have any streaming services. I get enough channels with an antenna that I can usually find something on. If not, there's Twitch and youtube.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Legacy Crankcase does have flip-out shoulder cannons, though.

Catching up on the thread, my general thought is that, while it may be that Hasbro has to make decisions based on information that consumers don't have, if our collective impression in three major markets is that A) they make it difficult to for us to give them money because we can't find things and B) half the stuff they release is either a definitive design for the ages or has a planned obsolescence built in for the next time they make a toy of a character within three to five years, they're doing it wrong.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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https://news.tfw2005.com/2022/08/17/tra ... art-463652

That does make me feel a bit better that they didn't outright ignore the Triggercon bit. If they do a Windsweeper that doesn't suck (and actually has cannons rather than nubs they can't be bothered to show in the promo pics) I might go back and get Crankcase.

edit: Leaving them with the ability to attach effects would have helped, to be honest, might as well find a use for the bag of them that have accumulated.

Re: OGL, Kyle is being wheeled out for interviews now -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8-2yiFT2PU
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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That's kind of disingenuous, though. People aren't saying "I wish Crankcase had tiny blue nipples pinned to the inside of his windshield", they're saying they wanted the new toy to faithfully replicate the original's single most noteworthy feature. The Legacy concept art in Denyer's link had them, so the designer clearly agreed that they were important. Just as clearly, "we did our best to do the character justice within the cost alotted" won out in the end.
Clay wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:01 pm Catching up on the thread, my general thought is that, while it may be that Hasbro has to make decisions based on information that consumers don't have, if our collective impression in three major markets is that A) they make it difficult to for us to give them money because we can't find things and B) half the stuff they release is either a definitive design for the ages or has a planned obsolescence built in for the next time they make a toy of a character within three to five years, they're doing it wrong.
As scummy as B is, honestly the fans are their own worst enemy. If people wouldn't repurchase the same characters over and over again to "upgrade" to the new hotness, Hasbro wouldn't be able to exploit that behaviour and they'd knock it off. I don't mean any character should be "one and done" forever, but there's a huge difference between making a new Kickback in a drastically different style every five years and making a slightly different Ironhide every eighteen months. But if the fandom makes it worth their while they'll keep doing it.

But there's just no excuse for A. Their entire business centres around manufacturing and distributing tiny bits of plastic kitsch. If their product isn't in stores, they're dropping the ball pretty seriously on one or both.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Tantrum wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:22 pmAfter 3 waves, Legacy is now Legacy: Evolution. Siege and Kingdom only lasted a few waves each. Do you think Hasbro's doing this because retailers tend to order a lot of wave 1, so they want to have as many wave 1s as possible?
I've seen all 4 Legacy: Evolution wave 1 Deluxes in several stores already. I only saw regular Legacy waves 2 and 3 Deluxes once each, and not all of them. If Hasbro is trying to exploit retailers' tendency to over order wave 1, it seems to be working.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Saw Hasbro are ending closed box packaging, following a nosedive in sales as consumers didn't recognise what was being sold. I wonder how badly Transformers was affected, given that their boxes haven't been completely closed on all products, with cut outs and (in the case of the Speedia 500 line) full non-window windows.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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I think they're being optimistic if they think that that'll stave off the End Times for action figures. The WotC debacle(s) seem to indicate a company that's flailing whilst trying to monetise a shrinking customer base harder.

Yes, closed box particularly hurts sales to adult collectors who make up 20-25% of the market at a conservative estimate (probably more with pricier toys and obscure ML figures) but pumping more and more product out in ways people won't as well as can't pony up for... it's just speeding up the cycle of remaindered stock.

I'd guess that stores have pushed back due to thefts as well.
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Re: Grumpy old men: armchair brand management

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Not to speak well of single-use plastics, but the bubbles did do a good job of both displaying the product and protecting it from people popping the heads off figures.

With transformers, they can probably keep the windowed packaging, but they'll have to think more carefully on how the figures are actually fitted into it. The speedia (?) sub line seemed to avoid most problems by just having the figures in vehicle mode. The other trick would be to make sure any parts that pop off easily are simply stored with the weapons in the little wrapping under the figure.

Not sure how that could be implemented with other lines like Marvel or whatever else was closed box.
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